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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2004
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20V TA22
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Tue, 18 January 2005 13:32
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Just thought id have a poke round see if anyone has any input on this. by the end of the year i will have sufficient (i believe) funds and time to begin an engine conversion for my TA22.
After reading thru the conversion for a 4AGE into a 22, and reading other reports that it is quite a solid performer for a 1.6L, i got thinking that a 20V 4AG couldnt be too much harder. its a bit different from a 3tgte so would love to give it a go.
At this stage i am looking to keep the engine fairly stock,as im still fairly young and insurance is a killer. So from here id love to hear from anyone who has done the conversion, if there are any partic difficult/costly steps involved, and if me, my old man and mechanic uncle could pull it off?
Finally, would this conversion be worth it ie it is obviviously going to be a huge upgrade over my 2t, but could i do something better for the money while still keeping it NA? Yogi's blacktop makes huge power with a turbo on the side of it so an NA version surely couldnt be to bad.
Let me know what you think, feel free with tips and whatnot
Thanks
tommyJ
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Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 19 January 2005 11:56
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A 20V would be a lot of work simply converting it to be RWD. Let alone all the other work to get it to fit, then wiring and other hassles.
Have a look on Phil Bradshaw's site for info. http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/phil.bradshaw/4AGE% 20into%20RWD.htm
You might be a lot better off going for a 16v which is already rwd. 4AGE's can make some nice power in NA form, but it costs big bucks!
Personally I would love to do a 4age 16v conversion myself on my own ta22. It just depends on what you want the car for, and what you want out of it really.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 19 January 2005 12:16
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main prob is the dizi
it will protrude into your firewall (its at the rear unlike the left side mount on a 4age).
you'll have to convert to coilpacks or adjust firewall (mallet massage or cut sectioned box)
hope this helps
Nathan
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Location:
light'n pipes - melbourne
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 19 January 2005 22:00
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bit off topic, but the guy who purchased my TA22 last year had intentions of putting a turbo 20V in.... wonder how far the project has gone..
anyway, good luck with the conversion.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Fri, 21 January 2005 08:01
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I think anyone who chops a huge hole in the firewall should be shot. Theres a CDI kit available to use the stock ECU without a dizzy and have 2 coils instead.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Fri, 21 January 2005 08:20
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thanks for input guys. it looks like ive got a bit of thinking to work out how i can get it in, if i decide to go ahead. this woule be so much easier if a 20V head would bolt straight on to the 16V block.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 01:57
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who makes the cdi kit?!
where can i get and how much?!
i need info! im guna buy a 20v this weekend if this infoe is right on the cdi kit....
Cheers
Nathan
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 11:50
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DLI Converter system brought to you by HMS Automotive:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/dliconverter/
I am going to get one myself. Keeping in mind the link was pointed to me too so I don't know anyone who has one. If this module days what it says it does then its a wonder its not more popular
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 12:11
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| forced_induction wrote on Fri, 21 January 2005 19:20 |
thanks for input guys. it looks like ive got a bit of thinking to work out how i can get it in, if i decide to go ahead. this woule be so much easier if a 20V head would bolt straight on to the 16V block.
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Wouldn't make a difference - It's the head that causes the drama!
I can send you RWD 20V cooling system parts for around $160 inc. postage. Then the only thing you have to worry about is the dizzy, but as has been already mentioned, Anthony Kellam's DLI kit will fix that.
As I always say, 20V to RWD is easy.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 12:16
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do you have pics of your RWD conversion parts? I want to compare them to mine
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 12:16
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| Sam_Q wrote on Sat, 22 January 2005 22:50 |
DLI Converter system brought to you by HMS Automotive:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/dliconverter/
I am going to get one myself. Keeping in mind the link was pointed to me too so I don't know anyone who has one. If this module days what it says it does then its a wonder its not more popular
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steve-ae86 has one~
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 12:25
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is he happy with it? we need to get him in here
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 12:32
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he was once he got it
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 13:20
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I also will be selling some 20V RWD conversion bits soon as well as some extractors to suit if your interested.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 22 January 2005 13:28
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If anyone whats a DLI converter kit, send me a PM and i'll put you onto someone.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 00:11
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thanks for that, now could u please post a pic of the side of the block, thanks.
Mine is completely differnt mine actually routes the water from the back of the head.
Also I remember a guide somewhere on how to do it your method do you know where that is?
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 00:18
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Sam, I don't have any pics of the side, but I'm about to start another 20V-AE86 conversion exactly the same as I did mine on another car and rest assured, I'll be taking pics of EVERYTHING!
Here's the tech doc. I did mine slightly different - I used a 4AC water pump and thermostat housing with a JDM AE86 (4AGE) waterpump pulley as it sits slightly further back and in line with the other pulleys. The bottom hose outlet was made by cutting the 4AC one (the small outlet section after the thermostat) off at the flange and TIG welding a 90deg bend on so it comes straight forward instead of to the side where it would foul on the alternator. A longer alternator bracket is also needed for this way.
http://toymods.org.au/Repository/TechDocs/How%20to %20install%20a%2020v%20in%20RWD%20trim%20properly. pdf
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 04:37
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okay this is beginning to sound like something me dad and my uncle could do. however, as reading thru ads from wreckers selling halfcuts, i saw a blacktop 20V is much more than a silver one. apart from it being a later model, is there anything 'better' about the blacktop? (apart from a 6 speed)
Sam Q- will definately have a think about that, but would prefer to have the engine before buying conversion parts. Still, im feeling prtty confident at the moment....
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 06:11
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| forced_induction wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 15:37 |
okay this is beginning to sound like something me dad and my uncle could do. however, as reading thru ads from wreckers selling halfcuts, i saw a blacktop 20V is much more than a silver one. apart from it being a later model, is there anything 'better' about the blacktop? (apart from a 6 speed)
Sam Q- will definately have a think about that, but would prefer to have the engine before buying conversion parts. Still, im feeling prtty confident at the moment....
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Mate, I don't even know you but I know you could do it. I did mine by myself on the road outside my parent's house.
Personally I can't justify the extra for a blacktop. The ports are different shape and the throttle bodies are 48mm rather than the 45mm of the silvertop. I just don't reckon the increase in power offsets the price difference.
Are you planning to run a stock computer? If not, just get a silvertop from SSS. I picked up another one yesterday for around $800 tested, with a 30 day warranty (better than nothing).
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 07:34
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so if you just bought 1 then that means you should have a rwd blow by blow with pics for us all soon thhen eh?!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 07:40
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thanks for encouragement slut. (haha that sounds funny)
At this stage im thinking of sticking with the stock computer, if of course i can get it with the halfcut. 800 is pretty cheap though, and an aftermarket ecu could come in helpful later. i would really love a halfcut tho for the gearbox, as i dont think mine will keep up with it. Ive seen halfcuts for 1500 - 2000 tho, so an engine from SSS + gearbox + ecu is looking like a similar deal, altho it could be pushed over by the ecu
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 08:01
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AE86slut. did you get the thermomstat section of the 4AC off a wreck or are they easy to buy new. I have a 20 valve to put into my MG Midget and was going to run my water piping exactly the same as you, so good to see it fits in well. I was checking the part numbers for new pumps at Supercheap recently and or course realised they are only the front section. Is there a general replacement part available for the rear housing with the thermostat mount or do I need to get one from an old engine. I didn't check that last time I was in Supercheap.
I also don't recall seeing you top hose outlet in the pic. I'll have another look but did you do the same as the tech link and use the one on the inlet #1 side or still exchaust #4 side.
For the DLI kit you still retain most of the dizzy for the CAS although I believe you gain about 40mm. Still have to make a cover to replace the dizzy cap from memory.
I'm going to run aftermarket ECU. Probably Hyundai coils and Bosch igniters. Can anyone remember what the part numbers for the coils end in. One is 008 but apparently there are 2 others. I searched local wreckers yesterday but they only had what must be the earlier Camira ones that appear to be 6 wire units. I believe I need 4 wire units which must be newer.
Local tuner that will be selling me my ECU also ttold me I can use ABS sensor and chopper disk as CAS offf front crank pulley, getting rid of dizzy altogether. I am going this way. Have the sensor but still have to get chopper disk or make one. He also reckons this gives better signal to ECU as wheel is bigger and runs at crank speed instead of dizzy based one whichj is small and runs half speed. He reckons that at low revs the dizzy based one does not supply as strong a signal. I guess it makes sense but mostly I am after full clearance at back of head.
Anyone also know if there is enough water flow at back of head to use the blanked off ports as feed and return for heater???
Gavin
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 08:04
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TA-022 - Yep, lots of pics and a full tech doc coming up. I was going to do a tech doc after doing my car, but didn't have enough good pics.
forced_induction - the 20V will come with a FWD gearbox man. They were never released in a RWD configuration, therefore the 20V g'box is useless. Stick with the T50, it will handle a 20V easy if you're not supid with it.
Halfcut is a waste of money IMO. Even if you buy a bare motor, there's heaps of shit you take off the engine and don't use. If you have the dough, buy a bare motor from SSS (make sure you inspect them personally - take off the oil filler cap and bring a torch with you so you can have a look inside for sludge etc. Try to pick one that has a nice golden colour rather than golden brown/dark brown. And check the engine numbers. If it says something like 4A and then below it Kxxxxxx (x's are numbers) and everything else looks good, get it. The K denotes a later model engine.
Buy an aftermarket ECU so you can get rid of the dizzy headache and have no dramas when you want to modify the engine later!
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 08:17
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| fester wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 19:01 |
AE86slut. did you get the thermomstat section of the 4AC off a wreck or are they easy to buy new.
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I got mine off the 4AC I took out of the car. That's the good thing about a 4A replacing a 4A I guess... There's a few generic parts that come in handy. I still bought a brand new 4AC waterpump anyway, for peace of mind. The part you want is a 4AC thermostat housing. Not sure of the part number. YOu should be able to use one off an AE71 or KE70(?) from the wreckers. as far as I know they are the same.
| Quote: |
I also don't recall seeing you top hose outlet in the pic. I'll have another look but did you do the same as the tech link and use the one on the inlet #1 side or still exchaust #4 side.
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I used the inlet side using one of the custom outlets. The exhaust side I blocked off.
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For the DLI kit you still retain most of the dizzy for the CAS although I believe you gain about 40mm. Still have to make a cover to replace the dizzy cap from memory.
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This is correct. It's enough for the engine to fit though. The CAS cover can be purchased from HMS automotive in Brissy for around $50.
| Quote: |
I'm going to run aftermarket ECU. Probably Hyundai coils and Bosch igniters. Can anyone remember what the part numbers for the coils end in. One is 008 but apparently there are 2 others. I searched local wreckers yesterday but they only had what must be the earlier Camira ones that appear to be 6 wire units. I believe I need 4 wire units which must be newer.
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Not sure about this. I bought brand new bosch coils.
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Anyone also know if there is enough water flow at back of head to use the blanked off ports as feed and return for heater???
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Should be. Not sure as I don't run a heater. Personally I would use T-pieces in the top and bottom radiator hoses.
Cheers,
Jeremy.
P.S. What you are doing is yet another of my dream projects! Love the midgets, and love the 20V's just as much. Should be a great combo!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 08:43
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man im dumb. i didnt even think of the fwd gearbox part 
so a t50 will hold a 20V? should i be looking at buying a later model< i thnk mine was replaced a couple of years ago though, so thinking about it itd probably be ok. if i keep that gearbox then that should eliminate the need for custom tailshafts and such right? prob still need a new diff tho?
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 08:46
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hehehe..... We all forget these sort of important things when we're excited about a new engine man!
I'm using a stock AE86 T50 and it's fine. I'm not sure about the TA22 belhousing though and if the bolt pattern is the same as the 4AGE. I'm 99% sure it's the same though.
As for your diff, it should be fine, but in any case, an LSD would definately be worth getting.
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 09:16
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Actually I stuffed up my typing. I'm probably going to use the hyundai coils (the double plug ones) but needed the part numbers for the Bosch igniters???
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 09:29
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so slut what did u do for fitting the line into the top of the water pump? Also what lines did u use for the heater? did u run rubber all the way?
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 09:53
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| Sam_Q wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 20:29 |
so slut what did u do for fitting the line into the top of the water pump? Also what lines did u use for the heater? did u run rubber all the way?
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The metal pipe that comes out of the top of the waterpump/thermostat housing (I'm assuming it's this one that you mean - it's the 4AC thermostat bypass) I cut in half, put a new O-ring on and put it back in. Then covered the open und with one of those rubber pipe cap thingy's with a hose-clamp around it.
I don't run a heater. The heater pipe that comes off the back of the thermostat housing I cut and attached a rubber hose that connects to a T-piece in the top radiator hose and acts as a thermostat bypass.
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 10:27
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Yes I'm hoping the Midget should turn out quite tidy. The plans so far are:
Round wheel arch model for decent wheel/tire combo.
Painted in the VT Commodore Brittania Mica so still looks retro (British Racing Green) but a little more modern.
20 Valve and 5 speed conversion
Front suspension conversion. Copy of English kit made Aero Engineer in Vic.
16x6" Corolla Sportivo rims and 195/45 tyres
100 series cruiser alloy radiator cut down with alloy tanks
Cobra race seats.
4 point harnesses
Twin hoop roll bars (like open wheelers)
Hyundai Accent front vented rotors & calipers
Rear disk conversion yet to be investigated.
Rear diff upgrade yet to be investigated (has to be very narrow)
Gavin
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 23 January 2005 10:56
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| AE86slut wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 19:46 |
I'm using a stock AE86 T50 and it's fine. I'm not sure about the TA22 belhousing though and if the bolt pattern is the same as the 4AGE. I'm 99% sure it's the same though.
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I'm 99% sure the bellhousing on a t50 from a TA22 will NOT fit any 4a series motor.
gearbox is fine just need at least a ae86 bellhousing. Or if ur ta22 box is a bit long in the tooth a complete gbox from a ae86 saves on reco and bellhousing.
Can any1 say exactly how to completely eliminate the distributor whilst still running a stock ecu?
ie 'DLI kit (incl coils etc)' plus 'CAS on front off motor' will trick ecu and run fine like it thinks there is a disi hooked up?
Just i dont plan on upping the motor for at least a few years till i can afford to insure a turbo (READ: 3 page long rta record), so cant justify the price of an aftermarket ECU.
Cheers
Nathan
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Mon, 24 January 2005 00:57
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You can't completely eliminate the distributor, even with an aftermarket ECU.... Unless of course you are using CAS wheel on the crank or something.
Basically all you do is take off the cap and rotor button and put a cover on it.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Mon, 24 January 2005 07:22
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ok im getting serious now. found a 20v for a price i can afford and im definately using this over the 16v.
so i want to start buying the bits and pieces nescasary to fit into a ta22, so help me with my parts list guys...
DLI Converter kit ---- Buy from Anthony Kellam
CAS cover for dist. ---- Buy from Anthony Kellam
T50 b'housing or
Complete box form ae86 ---- Buy from wrecker or some1
Now for the intake, can the plenum be flipped to face the front? is is bolted on or with minimal fudging be flipped?
What gearbox did the aus ae86's with 4ac's come with? IE if i grab a g'bok from one is it a T50 most likely?
And with this when bolted in are the shafts from g'box back going to have to be shorten or lengthened. Or can i keep the t50 in same mount points and just bolt motor in to suit to save such expense / modification?
Cheers
Nathan
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Mon, 24 January 2005 08:28
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Jeremy, Iwas chasing up on the water pump set up today. I can get the pump easy anywhere. It's the thermostat housing that is the problem. Toyota have them but I can't get up there to look at any schematic pictures for all the bits. In the conversion in the blue Corolla from the above link I can see there appears to be 3 parts to the pump. It's the only side on pic I can find and I don't have a 4AC to look at.
Obviously there is the pump on the front, the thermostat housing which bolts to the rear of the pump and then I presume an outlet pipe which bolts to the thermostat housing and this outlet is where the hose clamps to.
What I'm getting at is that I need to identify each component as I have to buy the lot seeing as I'm not starting with a 4AC to begin with. Need to check the pricing and see if I should buy a whole car just to get these parts (no RWD 4AC wrecked locally). I know of an auto 4AC Corolla for $120 but not sure if it's worth getting as all I really want is the thermostat section and maybe the starter if the auto one is the same as manual.
Can you guys confirm the pump bits for me and maybe the starter.
Gavin
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Tue, 25 January 2005 01:35
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Ok....
TA-022 - AE86's all came with T50's. IMO it would be best to get a bellhousing as I think the tailshaft/g'box splines are different b/w '22's and AE86's. Tailshaft should not be a problem until you change the diff.
In an AE86, the plenum can not be used usually as when reversed it sits too high to clear the bonnet. Not sure about '22s.... Is this car to be completely legal? If not, run trumpets straight off the quads like myself and most other ppl do! Sounds heaps better as well.
Gavin:
You are right, there are 3 pieces - you basically want all of them. Let me know if you can't find anything/don't want to buy new and I should be able to sort it out for you.
Cheers,
Jeremy.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Tue, 25 January 2005 02:25
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hey, well I spoke to a guy around 6months ago. I can't remember who he was exactly abut he had installed a 20v into a TA22 and his words were - "Never again"
The 20v is regarded by a few as simply being a race-engine and not suited for street driving due to its high rev 'powerband'.
Ask the 4AGE 16v guys how much they enjoy having little torque down low. Considering the power-effort of installing the 20V. I'd be looking elsewhere.
Thats my two cents worth.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Tue, 25 January 2005 07:20
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well when i thought a 20v would cost twice as much as a 16v conversion i palmed it off...but as of late ive found for about 2-400 more i can do the 20v.
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Tue, 25 January 2005 11:41
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Thanks Jeremy I'll keep that in mind but might have found a couple of motors.
Checked with toyota today and the rear section of the pump is not listed as a seperate part number. They only have a listing for the complete assembly (less thermostat housing) but it appears they are no longer available. Only the actual pump section (front) whihc can still be bought obviously individually.
What "longer" alternator bracket did you use and if I've read one of your posts correctly you have blanked off the thermostat bypass. This doesn't cause any issues does it, I presume there is a few seconds where the water sits stagnant before the thermostat opens but nothing bad I gather.
I was nearly goign to look at milling out a housing to use the 20 valve thermostat and cover and weld it to the rear outlet of the 20 valve pump so it exits similar to yours but there is no need to change pulley. But I wasn't sure how to intergrate the bypass. If it's not necessary thsi is probably not such a huge job.
PM me on how much you would want for the rear section of the pump and an alternator bracket before I go to the wreckers on the weekend. They may still want stupid prices.
Gavin
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 26 January 2005 11:04
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oh also I am documenting me doing this step by step in my forum (see link in sig below) I am going to add some pics now
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 26 January 2005 11:20
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Jeremy mentioned the pulley problem Sam. He's using the genuine RWD 4AGE pulley (eg import AE86).
I was thinking about this problem too. Have you compared which part of the pump is bigger. I'm suspecting it is the rear section but obviously still don't have one to compare.
Not sure how hard the pulley will be to get but my thought was to machine the centre out of the 20 valve and make up a blank boss with the appropriate holes and get a mate to TIG weld it on from behind so it looks neat. Not sure if I've explained that correctly but a new centre mounting section sitting on teh front and appropriately spaced (say 5mm plate) but welded by TIG from behind so as to be neat and limit distortion.
If I could find one of the old guys in town my F-I-L used to hang out with I could nearly get an alloy one machined up quite cheaply. (My lathe is not quite accurate enough for that and is quite small)
This is the other reason I'd like to machine up a thermostat housing and cap it with the 20 valve thermostat and cover. I reckon it could be done out of alloy round bar with a hole in the side like the original format and welded sideways to the rear of the 20 valve pump via the neck that the hose goes on that joins the original system to the top inlet (at #1 cylinder).
That part of it's function seems easy. What I'm not sure of is how to easily incorporate the bypass function. Check inside the 20 valve thermostat body and you'll see what I mean.
Gavin
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 26 January 2005 11:29
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id say you'd need to adjust the bracketing ie bend it, or custom deep dish wheel?
im guessing the 4ac pump is needed as the 20v one is a rear mount unit?
Cheers
Nathan
PS what other cars can i get a t50 4a series bellhousing out of? besides ae86's?
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 26 January 2005 11:33
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damn, I thought I might of missed something. Anyway I did have a look and the actual shaft section is longer on the 4ac one. Heres my plan, on the 4ac the pulley has more of an indent, so.. I am going to machine that bit out and then machine the guts off the middle of the 20V one. After I get it to line up I want to weld it. I will be honest and be quick to say this rough and I am not sure if I can line it up properly enough, I will see.
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 26 January 2005 11:44
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Bear with me Sam as I don't have a 4AC one to look at!!!
Is the alloy snout of the pump longer or just the shaft. Was wondering if you can press the boss off that the pulley bolts to, shorten the shaft and press the boss back on????
Did you look and see if the backing section of the pump is deeper than the 20 valve one as part of this looks to bolt between the block and the pump. I assumed it was deeper here. If not how different are the actual pump sections. Has anyone actually looked at whether the 20 valve or FWD pump section can still bolt to the RWD backing piece???
I'm still nutting out the idea of machining a new thermostat housing. Can you tell me how the bypass works on the RWD pump. I'm assuming it bypasses the water back to the top hose??
Gavin
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 26 January 2005 11:54
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nah its all good Gavin, I think its great that we can all team up to nut this out. Once we do I will show everyone the in-depth way of doing it both this way and the other way of using a remote thermostat.
Looking at the two pumps they are completely different in the way they housing is around the impellors. I think its best I take some good pics and we can go from there. I will see where the bypass goes for you. The 4ac one has a longer body out of aluminium and an appropriatly longer shaft. Its all one peice and very much unserviceable. I will look around at the wreckers soon, you never know there might be readily available pully that will do the job or water pump for that matter.
forced_induction: I bet you didnt expect this much info!!
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 26 January 2005 13:04
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You can buy 4A pumps in two offsets, obviously you're using the longer one  I think I've got a short one spare that you can experiment with if you like. I'm pretty sure the longer ones are found on 4AC's and RWD 4AGs, whereas FWD 4AGs and 4AFs have the shorter ones. Oh, and I think some FWD ones also use the longer ones... I can't remember exactly!
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Wed, 26 January 2005 13:17
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thanks Michael for the info and offer. I will measure up one at the self serve wrecker and then if it's a match then I will order a new one. I will probably do that this sunday.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Thu, 27 January 2005 00:58
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Gavin, the 20V water pump will not fit onto the 4AC housing as the blades foul on it. This could be fixed pretty easily though, and the 20V pump has an extra blade as well.
As for the pulley, yes, I used a JDM AE86 pulley which I ordered brand new from Toyota due to the stuff-around trying to find one other ways.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Thu, 27 January 2005 05:26
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so to confirm; thats the RWD 4AGE puley on the stock 4Ac pump? do you have the part number for it and what it cost u?
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Thu, 27 January 2005 11:25
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OK Michael can you also clarify - If there are 2 different length pumps for the 4A being FWD and RWD do they actually have the same rear pattern. EG will the FWD pump bolt onto the RWD housing (eg the part behind the impeller) as this is what I was getting at with my posts.
I can't remember Bill Sherwood covering this. I do remember him covering that you can't use an engine driven fan on the FWD pump as the bearings are not strong enough to support it.
I'm goin to try and measure this all up as well on the weekend Sam (before I go modding pulleys) as I think I have found a wrecker that has some RWD motors.
I'd also be interested to see how much the JDM pulley was in case it's not much different to get an alloy pulley made up.
Gavin
Of course you know the really tricky thing I jokingly measured up last night was that an old cast Fiat cam pulley was about the right size to machine out the centre and then weld over the crank pulley that has had the ribbed section machined off(not sure about balance though). Next a Nissan E15 pressed cam pulley has the same teeth and could be adapted to the water pump and all that's left to run a gilmer drive belt would be a small pulley for the alternator and most cars have a very small pulley on the crank that would be about right. 
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Thu, 27 January 2005 22:51
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Yep, RWD 16V water pump pulley on stock AE86 4AC water pump and housing.
Cost me $80 brand new from Toyota. I'll probably be able to get a part number for you over the weekend.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 29 January 2005 02:05
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well guys I have solved the problem, I have managed to make the 20V shaft and pulley fit onto the 4ac rear housing, its not a bolt on job but its pretty close. Full credit to you Gavin on the idea. I will have more details and some pics soon.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 29 January 2005 12:34
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Hey guys
I too am considering the 20valve option into my 86. Just searching for more information and know how on the subject.
I would like to do this on a budget of about $2000 - $2500 running and on the road and have the extras for suspension mods. I got some friends who can help me. I have someone to do the wiring as I have no bloody idea. Going to cost bout $500. Has anyone done this conversion on a budget?
Mate of mine had a black top put in to his 86. He had a mechanic do it for him. They banged and they cut the fire wall. Conversion cost $5000.
What will I need to properly complete this conversion, and can someone put down a list of parts and rough costing of parts. I want to avoid the hassels and hidden cost of not being prepared. Thanks.
The information on this thread is great. Really helped. keep up the great work guys. Guess the 4ac will come in handy after all. 
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sat, 29 January 2005 23:32
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you got it Ta22man, I carefully ground it down, it didnt need much anyway. How it finshed up is shown below. Also I have a modified silver top plenum that I will also sell soon, stupidly the trumpets were taken out but I will replace them.
no car: hang around for a while and I will document everything u need. I will be selling my old RWD conversion soon for a cheap price if your interested. Your budjet might be ok depending on how much you get your parts for, it would be tight though.
Also no one should ever touch the firewall when they put a 20V in, anyone who does is a butcher. Man and some people say things about chopped springs when they do stuff like that.
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 20V TA22
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Sun, 30 January 2005 12:35
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I knew they looked close Sam good on you. I picked up a 4A pump and housing today so I'll be having a look at it soon. Also know where a dead JDM AE86 4AGE might be coing in so I'll be keeping my eyes on them to see if it is dead and whether they will sell the genuine thermostat housing cheap enough, then I won't have to make up my own pipe.
The pipe that goes into the top of the pump for the bypass. Most people say they pull it out shorten it and put a new oring on it. What does this pipe look like . It was the onyl bit I couldn't get. Does the pipe have any grooves etc where it goes into the housing or does it rely on the oring completely.
I'll need to make one and would like to know how it seats originally althougg I'll probably just weld and alloy tube on and forget about the oring.
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