| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 10:41
|
 |
I fitted a tercel rear sway bar last week .Very rad.Heaps more bite up front and very stable out back.I've been running -30mm king springs and koni's on about medium,ra22 lca,s, std sway bars and 205/55/15 tyres and was kinda searching for something more.This swaybar just brought the thing to life.I run my kids around in this car and drive often on shit roads(and a quik blast on the dirt where poss.)and it loves it.No harshnes and yet suprisingly sharp.So if you,re not caught up in the drift thing and want to maintain a bit ride quality then give it a go. Best $20 I ever spent.Need to extend the mounts a bit as the tercel one's arms are about 30mm longer.I used a couple of 8mm plates and 120y front sway bar mounts (17mm)and a bit of drilling
and it was done. Hope this info is of interest to folks.Dont ask for photos as it took me half an hour just to type this and I dont have access to a digicam.
Joe
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 10:52
|
|
Ok what size is the tercel bar ? compaired to the sprinter bar . If the arms ? are the bar arm lengths then you might want think about the rules of sway bars .
There are two primary factors that determine an anti roll bars torsional stiffness: the diameter of the bar and the length of the bar "moment arm" (more commonly known as the amount of leverage that the vehicle is able to apply against the twisting motion of the bar.)
Diameter is generally the easiest concept to grasp, as it is somewhat intuitive that a larger diameter bar would have greater torsional rigidity. Torsional (or twisting) motion of the bar is actually governed by the equation:
twist = (2 x torque x length)/(p x diam4 x material modulus)
And since "diameter" is in the denominator, as diameter gets larger, the amount of twist gets smaller. Which, in a nutshell, means that torsional rigidity is a function of the diameter to the fourth power! This is why a very small increase in diameter makes a large increase in torsional rigidity.
To compare, for example, the rigidity of a stock rear 15.0mm bar to a larger 16.5mm bar, simply use the equation, 16.54/154 which yields 1.46. In other words, a 16.5mm bar is 1.46 times as stiff or 46% stiffer than a 15.0mm bar of the same design.
Add just one more millimeter to the diameter of the bar for a total of 17.5mm and the torsional strength skyrockets to 85% stiffer than the stock 15.0mm bar. (17.54/15.04=1.85.)
However, in addition to the diameter of a bar, there is another very important factor that determines an anti-sway bars torsional rigidity. This factor is known as the "length of the moment arm" or in common terms, the amount of leverage between the vehicle and the bar.
As with anything, an increased amount of leverage makes it easier to do work. This is governed by the "lever law," force x distance = torque. As "distance" - or the length of the lever - increases, the resulting amount of torque also increases. (This is why it was easier to move your big brother on the teeter-totter when he moved into the middle and you stayed out on the end. You enjoyed increased leverage at the end, while he suffered from reduced leverage in the middle.)
Because an anti-sway bar is shaped as a "U," the ends of the bar that lead from the center of the bar to the end-link attachment serve as a lever. As the distance from the straight part of the bar to the attachment at the end link becomes longer, the torque applied against the bar increases making it easier for a given amount of energy to twist the anti-sway bar. As this distance is reduced, torque is reduced - making it more difficult for a given amount of energy to twist the anti-sway bar.
It is the lever law that is applied during the design of an adjustable anti-sway bar. By using multiple end link locations, the distance from the point of attachment to the straight part of the bar can be altered. Or in engineers terms, the length of "the moment arm" can be increased or reduced in order to make more or less torque against the bar. Using a setting further from the center of the bar increases the length of the moment arm, resulting in more torque against the bar, allowing more twisting motion of the bar, creating more body roll. Using a setting closer to the center of the bar reduces the length of the moment arm, resulting in less torque against the bar, allowing less twisting motion of the bar, creating less body roll.
The actual impact upon torque can be compared by dividing the center-to-center distances of the end-link attachment points. For example, the center-to-center distance of the stock rear anti-sway bar is 200mm. We can compare this to the 160mm distance of the firmest setting of the 4-way adjustable 17.5mm bar by simply dividing the distances, 160/200 = .8. In other words, a 160mm center-to-center bar produces only 80% of the torque that would be produced by a 200mm center-to-center bar of the same diameter. Or simpler yet, by using the 160mm end-link attachment points, we increase the stiffness of the anti-sway bar by an extra 20%.
In short unless the bar is alot thicker , it might not be any stiffer than standard . 
[Updated on: Sat, 22 January 2005 10:56]
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 10:57
|
|
bloody hell adam, you're long winded!! 
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 11:02
|
|
|
You didn't read shit right Garth ?
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 12:50
|
|
I'll keep it simpler for you all then folks 
I put a Tercel rear bar on my KE70 some months ago, for the lousy $10 I paid for it, it's a good thing. Had to make up different brackets to fit it on the diff, but at that price, who cares!
It's definately stiffer, and I personally wouldn't suggest going any stiffer.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 12:53
|
|
|
So its ? 17mm vs 12mm ? mrshin ? i haven't seen a size yet so the stiffness over stock can be worked out
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 12:57
|
|
Ahh crap, trying to remember now... Those sizes do sound right - I measured them before changing them, worked it out, and was happy with what I found. I'll try and remember top measure it tomorrow 
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 13:15
|
|
|
I'me prety sure ke70 is 12mm ,sprinter is 14mm , and tercel is 17mm.Thanks for the essay tho dood.Can I get it on cassete as my eyes tend to get sore after a couple of hours reading .
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 15:08
|
|
yeah i read the lot
and then your 'cliffs notes' at the end
lol
you're still long winded!
|
|
|
Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 17:01
|
|
Wow
Ever thought of writting a book ?
Thats better then some of the books on suspension i've read !
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sat, 22 January 2005 23:53
|
|
Very good info Adam.
I think I will definitely consider this modification for my soon to come KE70.
Thanks all for your info/experiences 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sun, 23 January 2005 03:57
|
|
haha adam didnt write that!
what aussie would say teeter-totter?
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sun, 23 January 2005 06:22
|
|
| ae86drift wrote on Sat, 22 January 2005 23:57 |
haha adam didnt write that!
what aussie would say teeter-totter?
|
I am not Australian Garth , and if your so smart what is a teeter-totter in Australian slang
Go on Garth google it
Heres some tech from lotus
TS=(pi/32)(d4G/L)
TS = Torsional Stiffness
d = Bar Diameter in inches
L = Bar Length in inches
G = Torsional Modulus 11.5 x 106(lbs./in2) steel
This equation shows that bar rate is a function of the 4th power of its diameter.
A recent study exploring high strength tubular anti-roll bars showed increasing the diameter of a solid anti-roll bar from 10mm to 12mm resulted in a 207% increase in roll stiffness.
Reference Bar Diameter Relative stiffness 17mm bar
Starting 152 newtons per degree
15.499133272152542 kilogram force meters
112.09439528023598 foot pounds
1345.31248 inch pounds
I am sure oldcorolla will check my maths
+ 1mm + 2mm + 3mm + 4mm + 5mm + 6mm + 7mm
newtons per degree
191.52 237.12 291.84 354.16 425.6 509.2 603.44
How to correctly make adjustable sway bars not like the crap which we have to put up with here .
http://www.tarett.com/Browse_Item_Details.asp/Item _ID/1/categ_id/1/parent_ids/0,1/Name/Front_Swaybar _Assy_65-89_911912930914
But this is all old technology , active suspension is the way to go on you Tercel .
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sun, 23 January 2005 12:26
|
|
|
17mm for the tercel bar if anyone's still keen to know!
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sun, 23 January 2005 12:38
|
|
| improvedae86 wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 17:22 |
| ae86drift wrote on Sat, 22 January 2005 23:57 |
haha adam didnt write that!
what aussie would say teeter-totter?
|
I am not Australian Garth , and if your so smart what is a teeter-totter in Australian slang
Go on Garth google it
Heres some tech from lotus
TS=(pi/32)(d4G/L)
TS = Torsional Stiffness
d = Bar Diameter in inches
L = Bar Length in inches
G = Torsional Modulus 11.5 x 106(lbs./in2) steel
This equation shows that bar rate is a function of the 4th power of its diameter.
A recent study exploring high strength tubular anti-roll bars showed increasing the diameter of a solid anti-roll bar from 10mm to 12mm resulted in a 207% increase in roll stiffness.
Reference Bar Diameter Relative stiffness 17mm bar
Starting 152 newtons per degree
15.499133272152542 kilogram force meters
112.09439528023598 foot pounds
1345.31248 inch pounds
I am sure oldcorolla will check my maths
+ 1mm + 2mm + 3mm + 4mm + 5mm + 6mm + 7mm
newtons per degree
191.52 237.12 291.84 354.16 425.6 509.2 603.44
How to correctly make adjustable sway bars not like the crap which we have to put up with here .
http://www.tarett.com/Browse_Item_Details.asp/Item _ID/1/categ_id/1/parent_ids/0,1/Name/Front_Swaybar _Assy_65-89_911912930914
But this is all old technology , active suspension is the way to go on you Tercel .
|
U need to get out more often
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney - Seven Hills
Registered:
January 2005
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sun, 23 January 2005 13:34
|
|
| ae86drift wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 14:57 |
haha adam didnt write that!
what aussie would say teeter-totter?
|
lol damn that was informative! Got quite a bit out of that.. but it was like reading my old physics textbooks, having to re-read every line 3 times lol.
and to top it off, you could have use "seesaw" but you used "teeter-totter" lol very nice report, when are you publishing your next paper? j/k
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sun, 23 January 2005 14:56
|
|
haha adam its a seesaw
and POOO im just playing beee-atch!
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sun, 23 January 2005 23:16
|
|
| ae86drift wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 10:56 |
haha adam its a seesaw
and POOO im just playing beee-atch!
|
Ahh Garth go play on your teeter-totter
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Mon, 24 January 2005 00:57
|
|
|
|
|
Location:
Taree (4 hrs north of syd...
Registered:
May 2004
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Fri, 28 January 2005 23:14
|
|
|
how about st141.. pretty much the same for the rear dont know about the front yet?
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: cheap sprinter mod
|
Sun, 30 January 2005 10:58
|
|
|
If anyones interested ,(Melb) centre Rd. self serve has a tercel with the rear sway bar still on it , and also has 2 late T-18's with the diffs (with sway bar mounts),1 has rear tail shaft sect.$128 for the diff and $36 for the tail shaft. A bit rich ,but I've seen them go for more on toymods F/S forums
|
|
|
