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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
December 2004
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3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Fri, 21 January 2005 07:58
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Hi all, I have been thinking about converting my 89 SX which currntly has a 3SGE in it to a 3SGTE, I have saved up what i feel will be enough. However i am not very mechanically minded, However my two best mates are both mechanics and *should* know whats going on, Now my question about engine hunting, Can I Put a 3sgte in out of any model celica, ie the rounder 1990 shape (ST185) or does it have to be from a ST162/5
Also has anyone done the 4wd conversion, if so how difficult is this to do and any rough prices on it
Thanks - Josh
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Fri, 21 January 2005 08:28
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Hi Josh,
Searching the forum for info on this will reveal plenty of threads full of info, but heres some to get you started.
the 3sgte motors (Gens 1,2 & 3) are only available in the gt4 variants of the celica i.e. ST165, 185, 205 and the SW20 MR2. The MR2 motors apparently need a bit more work converting them to a front mounted setup, but can be done.
All 3 generations come with top mount IC's as standard. the 165, 185CS and 205's have WTA (water to air intercooler) and the ST185R comes with ATA (air to air intercooler) so if your going for a front cut off a ST185R you will need to adapt a bonnet scoop, or install a FMIC. The others can go straight in, but I believe vents in the bonnet would be a wise idea due to the heat generated by this motor.
All 3 motors share the same basic block design which means they should all mount up the same (I may be mistaken as I believe the 205 or Gen 3 3SGTE has a different sump setup which may indicate a change in block design.
An mr2 gearbox may also be a wise investment as its setup for 2WD and is deisgned for the additional power/torque of the 3SGTE (any guys here more familiar with the different variants of gearboxes can confirm or deny this.
The other major thing is wiring, you will need a different ECU, and wiring loom. MR2 wiring looms are quite different and wont fit straight in a celica without some serious cutting and rewiring. As far as im aware ECU location is the same in all 3 models so holes in the firewall and wiring lengths should be close of not the same.
As far as recommending which type to go for its up to your taste and budget.
165 (1986-1989) has a smaller WTA intercooler than the 185CS or 205, small port head and has a single entry CT26 turbocharger running 8-11psi stock.
185 (1990 - 1993) has T-VIS (toyota variable intake system) large port head, larger WTA or ATA IC, twin entry exhaust manifold and CT26 also running 8-11psi stock
205 (1994 - 1998) has the same WTA IC as the 185CS (205 owners may be able to outline a difference i have overlooked) no T-VIS, smaller ported head but apparently has the highest flowing manifold-head setup of the three and a larger CT20B turbocharger running 8-13? PSI stock (please correct me if this isnt accurate, but i know its a higher level than the other 2 gens)
obviously they newer gen motor you get the bigger the dollar sign will be, and if your attempting a conversion, best to just get the half cut so you can be sure you get all the peripheral goodies and pipes needed to make it fly.
If anyone has spotted a flaw in my information please ammend it as this was off the top of my mind while sitting here bored at work.
G/L with the conversion....post it in members rides! 
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Fri, 21 January 2005 09:48
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Thanks for all that info, That assures me that it wont be as hard to find a motor then, as i see plenty of gt4's (ST185) coming through on import mailing list, a few of them are bound to get rear ended.
Anyone that has done the conversion, could they please comment on issues that arose or the simplicity of it all, would be much appreciated.
Now im just wondering about the whole drive-train thing
Thanks - Josh
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sat, 22 January 2005 09:46
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Yep the ST185 (not the group A / CS / RC model) is the most commonly available 3SGTE front cut at the moment... and they are fairly sensibly priced too! (Low 2,000's usually)
Having said that if you can find an ST165 front cut at the right price go for it as there will be more parts you can use from the ST165.
The gearbox will be the only other major part you will need to consider... all the other bits you will need will be fairly small (bits of vacuum hose, water hose, intake pipework etc.)
Personally I would try to budget an extra $500ish for the little stuff you will need and just buy it as you go... I doubt anyone has bothered to keep a list of the smaller parts they have needed for this sort of conversion (unless you're really lucky)
If you get an ST165 front cut you probably won't need so many of the little bits and pieces.
Further to that you may want to consider just buying an ST165 outright... it would probably end up more expensive in the long run to build the ST163.5
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Location:
Wahroonga
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sat, 22 January 2005 10:03
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MAD180, i have done the conversion. I would have to agree with toobs. That buying a st165 would be cheaper than doing the conversion.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sat, 22 January 2005 21:12
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My only problem with buying a st165, is trying to bloody find one!
I have looked and looked and looked, and will continue to till i decide on the conversion, but they appear to be something of a rareity
-Josh
Thanks for all the info again!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sun, 23 January 2005 05:37
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It isnt that hard to get an st165 at all.. goto www.prestigemotorsport.com.au
and ring them up and order one... its that easy..
As for a 4wd conversion... good luck... the ST165 has a different fuel tank to make way for the rear diff... it also has a completely different floorpan..
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sun, 23 January 2005 07:12
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Ok, another thing ive been told is that i can buy the manifold, turbo, computer, loom, standard top mount ic (everything required to convert the 3gse to turbo) for $1100 then i have to get it fitted and tuned. How do you think this would work out, i have a heavy duty clutch, upgraded brakes and am currently doing suspension in my car, but what about the 3GSE's internals. Can anyone comment on this idea ?
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Location:
Adealide, Australia
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sun, 23 January 2005 09:05
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MAD180,
I wouldn't consider turbing' the ATMO 3SGE unless you only want to run extremly low boost. For the fairly low price of 3SGTE's go for the transplant. Or go nuts a find a BEAMS, hehe.
Happy Conversion.
leclercqr.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sun, 23 January 2005 09:23
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| stark wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 16:37 |
It isnt that hard to get an st165 at all.. goto www.prestigemotorsport.com.au
and ring them up and order one... its that easy..
As for a 4wd conversion... good luck... the ST165 has a different fuel tank to make way for the rear diff... it also has a completely different floorpan..
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Theres one for sale on our forums right now... just posted up today!
Go look!
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sun, 23 January 2005 09:26
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So all in all my best option is to convert my ST162 with a 3GTSE (FWD) unless i can get a gt4, as turboing a 3SGE is useless ?
Just a question (excuse the ignorance, due to my lacking mechanical mind as explained above) isnt a turbo 3SGE practically the same as a 3GTSE by the time your finished, whats the difference. Stronger internals, (obviously turbo) stronger gearbox etc ?
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sun, 23 January 2005 09:36
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there is supposed to be no difference between turbo and non turbo sw20 gearboxes apart from the lsd. I dont know if the mr2 gearboxes are different from the gt4 gearboxes
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sun, 23 January 2005 09:38
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The red GT4 on the forums is a bit out of my price range, thats my only issue with the car and the fact it probably in another state.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Mon, 31 January 2005 15:08
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| 4agte wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 17:36 |
there is supposed to be no difference between turbo and non turbo sw20 gearboxes apart from the lsd. I dont know if the mr2 gearboxes are different from the gt4 gearboxes
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What???
The non turbo is a s54 5 speed (Non turbo Mr2, Celica SX w/5SFE)
The turbo is an e153 (turbo Mr2, Camry V6)
The LSD was standard in the e153 transmission in Late model MR2s (96+ i think)
I reckon they are quite different. 
The GT4 gearboxes are 4WD gearboxes, and are very different to 2wd MR2 boxes. (The GT4 box is an e series box though)
Cheers
Adam.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Mon, 31 January 2005 20:02
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| acreese wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 02:08 |
I reckon they are quite different.
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*agreed*, the S54 is a variant of the C54 (4age etc) whereas the E series are just about bullet proof 
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Mon, 31 January 2005 20:39
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i thought there was no difference in synchros and both boxes were based an the mr2's 4agze gearbox.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Mon, 31 January 2005 22:21
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cheers for the info.
Werent trying to say you were wrong i was interested because im looking to rebuild one of my gearboxes (both supercharged mr2 gearboxes) and i heard that you can use the synchros from the sw20 which are better than the gze synchros. The gearbox is damn strong in the gze but the syncrhos are a bit average.
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Location:
Victoria, Melbourne
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: 3SGE -> 3SGTE (ST162)
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Sat, 30 April 2005 06:39
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please dont tell me i gotta buy a new car, isnt there any hope for my stocky 162??
im going to cry
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