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RA65 Sleeka
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Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 11:47 Go to next message
Ok my mate is making up rear strut brace for the rear of the Ma61. I have Pics but i cant host them for everone to see and make there opinions. if some can host them for me it would be great.
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Sam_Q
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yeah I can do that, send them over I will pm you the address.
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Sam_Q
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://member.telpacific.com.au/sam/other/brace2.jpg

http://member.telpacific.com.au/sam/other/brace1.jpg


if you want some gratification you go it, it looks awesome. So tell us now is it made? like as in how is the end peice joined to the bar? does it weigh much? did u notice a difference? I have heard MA-61s are a bit weak in the body.
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HyDrA
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wouldn't it be better to have the bar attached around the top of where the damper bolts in?
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RA65 Sleeka
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HyDrA wrote on Wed, 26 January 2005 23:10

Wouldn't it be better to have the bar attached around the top of where the damper bolts in?


that is what i thought but the ones we have seen in the US they have been mounted there. Plus you dont have to hack into the interior this way

So tell us now is it made? its made in three bits the main bar, the bar ends and the flat plates that bolt to the car.

like as in how is the end piece joined to the bar? the bar ends will be welded in neatly and the flat plates will be bolted to the bar just in case each car might be different as the space from point to point might have moved over time. Then it just bolts under the seat clamps

does it weigh much? It weighs bugger all as it is alloy.

did u notice a difference? Haven't had a chance to test it as both of our cars are off the road
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ed_ma61
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HyDrA wrote on Wed, 26 January 2005 23:40

Wouldn't it be better to have the bar attached around the top of where the damper bolts in?


think about it sonme more...
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HyDrA
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thinking doesn't happen when it's 39°C+ where your computer is Smile Plus the beer in me didn't help.

I dont trust those little hook bolt in places, probably because one of the bolts refuses to start. I suppose it'd work fine, but it just seems as though it could be made stronger Smile
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HyDrA
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oh yeh, if you make these, I will buy one Razz
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rob_RA40
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
quick brace question, should the brace allow some 'play' in it or should it be totally solid not allowing any chassis flex?
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Norbie
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 23:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The whole point of a strut brace is to reduce chassis flex... why would you want any play in it?
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rob_RA40
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thats what i thought

ok more questions

so wouldnt box section be a better idea than tubing?

should they be bolted on when jacked up or sititng on the ground?

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HyDrA
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Wed, 26 January 2005 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rollcage will stiffen up the chassis nicely Wink
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CrUZsida
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rob_RA40 wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 07:17

so wouldnt box section be a better idea than tubing?

Round tubing is generally stronger than box tubing.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 January 2005 00:49]

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TurboRA28
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
So what areas are most important to brace in the rear?
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gold28
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 01:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I would have thought an MA61 would be plenty stiff across that section of the chassis. I would be surprised if you found much gain there at all.

I would have thought that nolothane bushes or better still, rod ends in the rear suspension would make a much bigger change to suspension response than a strut brace would.

The engine bay would definitly benefit from a well made brace though.
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HyDrA
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 02:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Need a group buy on ALL MA61 bushes Razz

The engine bay could indeed benefit from a strut brace... big 6 cylinder engine hanging over the front wheels Sad
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CrUZsida
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 02:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HyDrA wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 10:27

.. big 6 cylinder engine hanging over the front wheels Sad

What big six?
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RA65 Sleeka
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 02:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
we will be making a brace for the front i hope.
And from what Ive read from the people in the US the rear brace makes a good improvement over stock. and once the brace is bolted down there should not be any play.
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Norbie
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RA65 Sleeka wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 12:33

And from what Ive read from the people in the US the rear brace makes a good improvement over stock.

Yeah but those guys think their shiny mufflers make an improvement over stock. Rolling Eyes

FWIW I'm getting a triangulated front strut brace fabricated for my Supra next month (ie it will bolt to the firewall as well as the strut towers). I'll post pics when it's done... I'm expecting a noticeable improvement in chassis stiffness, but time will tell.
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HyDrA
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 03:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 12:59

HyDrA wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 10:27

.. big 6 cylinder engine hanging over the front wheels Sad

What big six?


Not the 1G-GTE Razz

it's still a large chunk of metal!!
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Allan
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 03:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I hope MA61's are more solid then the wussy spot welded section that holds those brackets their place on an ma45/ra40.

Allan
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ZZT231
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 03:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I got one in my SA63 and it made a little difference. Though in the MA61 I don't have one as I use the area carrying stuff...

Cheers.
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justcallmefrank
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlackSupra has one on his car, and said it was a noticable improvement, and he has decent enough suspension to be able to feel the difference.
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RA65 Sleeka
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 13:42

FWIW I'm getting a triangulated front strut brace fabricated for my Supra next month (ie it will bolt to the firewall as well as the strut towers). I'll post pics when it's done... I'm expecting a noticeable improvement in chassis stiffness, but time will tell.


where are you going to be bolting it to the firewall?? as thats is what we wanted to do.
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gold28
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 04:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 14:12


FWIW I'm getting a triangulated front strut brace fabricated for my Supra next month (ie it will bolt to the firewall as well as the strut towers). I'll post pics when it's done... I'm expecting a noticeable improvement in chassis stiffness, but time will tell.



Awesome. The triangulated ones are a much better idea for stiffening up the engine bay. Where abouts are you picking up the mount from. I thought of doing a triangulated one but on the RA28's you would want to put it under the bonnet latch which is on the face of the plenum which ain't all that strong.
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draven
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 05:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
norbie.. I smell a grop buy coming on. In fact, I demand one. I want that triangulated front brace.

in my experience, the arse is plenty stiff enough as is. once the front has a brace, I'll see if the rear needs anything extra.

where are you planning on mounting the front braces? As I'm planning on getting some adjustable strut tops which may not mesh with a strut brace
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Norbie
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 05:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I haven't ironed out all the details yet (I'll discuss it with my metal fabricator guy, he's pretty cluey about this stuff) but my initial thoughts are to weld a chunk of steel bar to the middle of the firewall, drill a couple of holes through it, and bolt the strut brace to that using some big-arse high-tensile bolts. The other mounting points will be the strut tower bolts as per a conventional strut brace.

I'm open to comments and suggestions though!
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BlackSupra
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anthony and Greg,

You would be surprised how much difference the rear strut brace has made to my car. If you look at all modern cars with fold down seats they are braced by panneling behind the seats, when the 61 seats fold down there is nothing there but a small section of bracing that runs across the floor.

Yes, these bolt holes are the best spot for them.

Yes, installing them when jacked up will load them up the most

Yes, they make a noticeable difference.

I have replaced springs, bushes and shocks and the rear strut brace minimises the ass end body roll when cornering, tends to keep the rear end alot flatter through corners and enduces a nice oversteer effect without the good old lighting up of the inside tyre due to body roll.

I see no reason why anyone with an MA61 wouldnt have one.

Oh yes and triangulated front brace is on my to-do list.......so add me to any group buy that you intend to do.
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott,

What is the likely cost for the rear ? I may be in for one.

On the front triangulated one, I plan on modifying the LJM one that I have similar to what Norbs is talking about, but welding a oplate onm the firewall would require diassembly of the cockpit as I'd hate to have anything catch fire under there Shocked

But I'd be happy to watch other suggestions....
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draven
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'm also interested... just gotta check it wot interfere with my battery (shouldn't, but I cant visualise it at the moment, as my backseats aren't in)
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Norbie
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bbaacchhyy wrote on Fri, 28 January 2005 00:35

but welding a oplate onm the firewall would require diassembly of the cockpit as I'd hate to have anything catch fire under there Shocked

Hmmm good point... I went to great lengths to prevent pulling the dash out of my new Supra when I did the engine conversion, so if welding requires dash removal there will be no welding! What did you have in mind, a big-arse drill and a couple of bolts perhaps?
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HyDrA
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Thu, 27 January 2005 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maybe a few large thick washers as well? big chunky ones Wink
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negative boost
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Fri, 28 January 2005 00:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I could be up for one of those rear strut braces aswell, do you have a going figure yet?
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ed_ma61
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Fri, 28 January 2005 05:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
firewall attachement of a rear triangulated plate is easy - nutserts

thats what i did
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HyDrA
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Fri, 28 January 2005 05:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Got pics for the lazy?
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ed_ma61
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Fri, 28 January 2005 05:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://www.avdel.textron.com/index.htm?products/th readed/thin_sert.htm
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ed_ma61
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Fri, 28 January 2005 05:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
as for the whole rear strut brace thing...

1x length of 7/16" ID sprint car tie rod alloy shaft = $15 fom obrien
2x 7/16" male rod ends = $11ea from anywhere
2x 7/16" stainless bolts = $5
4x 7/16" nuts = $2

--------
$46 - and thats for a rose jointed adjustable bar


[Updated on: Fri, 28 January 2005 05:44]

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schulzie
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Sat, 29 January 2005 05:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ok guys, i happen to be the unlucky person making this rear strut bar. I havnt finished the first one yet, I've been to busy with work and product testing new bushes for Fulcrum/Super Pro for the MA61 Supra's IRS control arm "outer bush" the inner bushes that you buy in the kits are ok. They will be going into production of this bush asap and putting it in the kits.
Now as for this this strut bar, i believe they are not ment to be adjustable. Having an adjustable bar between 2 points on a chassis, Front strut towers or Rear whatever, when "adjusting" them up it creates unwanted tension on numerous parts of the body shell, bolts holding the bar, etc. A strut bar is ment to "stiffen" the body/suspension, stop uneven flex of strut towers and keeps the 2 points at the correct distance apart.
I hope that makes some sense, if you have any queries/sujestions feel free to do so.
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ed_ma61
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Sat, 29 January 2005 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
by adjustable, i simply meant that you can fit it, and adjust it to fit snug... not as in the pre-loaded sense.

but at the end of the day, if the bar is doing its job properly, there will be a fair bit of tension, shear, etc etc placed through its components, and mounts etc - just by mere function...
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Stefan
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Sat, 29 January 2005 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Some points:

1) I used to think 2-point braces were utter wank until I tried one in my RA65. Big difference in an old car like ours'! Mine is big thick steel plates, aircraft joints and alum tubing with threaded rod welded in. Only just clears the top of the 22RE intake plenum.

2) 'Adjustabilty' is just to get the bar the right length in the first place, not preload anything.

3) That rear bar looks very well done. I've been meaning to make one up, copying Supra-Wes on celicasupra.com's design (mounts to seat latch bolts too). I'd love to know more about your 3 piece design.

4) xA6x coupes are less areodynamic than xa6x hatchbacks but have a stiffer chassis - bracing back there where our hatches are just empty space. Eveyrhting I have heard about rear braces in cars like ours (and others, like 80s 300zxs) says they do give a noticable improvement, and kick out to oversteer more quickly
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Stefan
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Sat, 29 January 2005 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Fri, 28 January 2005 16:41

as for the whole rear strut brace thing...

1x length of 7/16" ID sprint car tie rod alloy shaft = $15 fom obrien
2x 7/16" male rod ends = $11ea from anywhere
2x 7/16" stainless bolts = $5
4x 7/16" nuts = $2

--------
$46 - and thats for a rose jointed adjustable bar





That sounds a lot like my front bar...except I didn't know rose joints were that cheap, and I didn't know you could get allow rod that was already internally threaded.

Obrien as in Obrien Aluminium, only in NSW?


The only problem I see is that rose joints will be too thick to install under the seat latches - unless I'm missing something.
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Sun, 30 January 2005 03:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Fri, 28 January 2005 16:11

as for the whole rear strut brace thing...

1x length of 7/16" ID sprint car tie rod alloy shaft = $15 fom obrien
2x 7/16" male rod ends = $11ea from anywhere
2x 7/16" stainless bolts = $5
4x 7/16" nuts = $2

--------
$46 - and thats for a rose jointed adjustable bar





Any pics of the finished front triangulated bar ? Or were you suggesting the manufacture of the rear bar ?

How did you mount your rear bar ?

Cheers

Michael B
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ed_ma61
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Sun, 30 January 2005 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
front bar is still in pieces, not installed yet...

actually, the strut tops are just waiting to be cut, other than that its all done. but anyway- its made out of te same tie rod alloy shaft as the rear, all rose jointed. fire wall bracket has two parralel tags on it which mount the rose joints. similar setup for the strut tops. firewall mount will be nutserted (thanks Justin!)

and the tie rod stuff isnt prethreaded, you cut it to length, then youll need a tap

i can get pics of the rear bar if ppl really want them.

i mounted the rear bar inset from those two seat latch bolts. i drilled into that x-member piece, and mounted 7/16" fitting through that, supported on earch side by 2x BIG hi-ten washers to help distibute any pull-out loads
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Sun, 30 January 2005 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 18:38


i can get pics of the rear bar if ppl really want them.




Please (plus one manifold Surprised )
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Yian
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Mon, 08 August 2005 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bbaacchhyy wrote on Mon, 31 January 2005 09:36

ed_ma61 wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 18:38


i can get pics of the rear bar if ppl really want them.




Please (plus one manifold Surprised )



Another bump of epic proportions from me. Was just thinking about making one myself, and remembered reading a thread from here.

So yeah, pics would be great Dr Ed Surprised
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Norbie
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Re: Ma61 Rear Strut Brace Tue, 09 August 2005 00:10 Go to previous message
After several delays I should be getting my front and rear bars installed on the weekend. Barring any major incidents (like my drivetrain breaking AGAIN) I should have pics by next week. Smile
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