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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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 AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 28 January 2005 08:30
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Will this kit fit inside 16" rims. 
I really want it. 
I have heard that these haven't got ADR approval.??
But i have seen them advertised from the driftland Eastern Creek site. 
http://www.technotoytuning.com/t3_site_pages/produ cts/big_brakes.html
Specs:
300mm X 32mm (light) curved vane 2-piece rotor with aluminum hat.
Billet Wilwood Dynalite 4 piston calipers (staggered bore)
Steel braided brake lines
Race pads or sport/street pads (many compounds available)
Does not affect wheel offset or space wheels out
Rotors available slotted or blank
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 28 January 2005 10:06
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ARGH! Damn it... now I need new pants.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 28 January 2005 10:08
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Wilwood Calipers are no ADR approved.
Those kits are a pure ripoff.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 28 January 2005 10:27
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r32 gts 297mm discs and calipers fit inside a 16" rim with the correct offset , so i guess with that large offset spacer {nice for the wheel-bearings , which are weak as it is } i guess that would fit too .
After looking at the picture i would say that you would have a hard time getting that approved for road use . For one two mounts plus lots of little shims make for a nightmate installation . Basically you shim the caliper up correctly for the alignment , then go driving for a while till say the pads bed in , come back reshim it again because its all settled now  Then there no locking tabs for any mounting bolts which might be required due to the large amount of spacers . The lines do not have the correct adr marked line material , so i guess there out of the question too .
It also go to note the small pad to disc contact area , most modern braking system have the pad area maximized to increase the friction co-effiectent of the pad . That caliper pictured doesn't have a very large area compared to allot of simple ae86 brake conversions . Also there no note of piston sizing so how do you work out if its a mechanical advantage over most upgrades as well ? Now does that caliper hit the caster arm if a large rca isn't installed ? i would say its going to be close , and if you have modified you car for more steering lock you are going to be in trouble .
Now if you check the listing from wilwood the cailper is for : "ideal for Late Models, Modifieds, Sprints, Road Racers and Dragsters. " so it should pull up a light car easy , especially with such a small tyre contact area . So back to the piston size again , does the set up require a assisted ie : booster or is it for a complete race master cylinder conversion .
When you look at pricing , well a ap caliper {direct bolt on}with a brembo disc to fit inside a s13/s14/s15 16" rims was last time i checked $1600 aud , and race brakes had a kit in stock ready to go . Add to this a huge list of pad compounds and parts stock availability in this country you would have to question why you would need to import such a produce here . Unless you need the bling factor , theres lots of great brake packages here already for not really that much $$ for the performance if you need brake that powerful anyway .
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 28 January 2005 10:40
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All willwood calipers are street legal in Australia. The misconception that they don't have seals and all this other rubbish is bullshit.
There is at least 80 Clubman cars getting around Brisbane fitted with Willwood calipers and they passed engineering and always pass inspections at the track.
And there are fuck knows how many Cobras getting around with Willwood calipers fitted.
If I knew you could have these on a street cars a few months ago, they would now be fitted to my car.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 28 January 2005 12:41
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I think that "kit cars" engineering vs modification engineering might be two different subjects , just like the crazy "hot rod" engineering which allow all kinds of modifications which are not allowed on any other vehicles . As normal is best to check in your state with relevant roads departement and engineers .
I was just stating this conversion vs the other brake conversion that have been done , is it really worth the money ?
Or does a early model toyota really need to be fitted with brakes worth at least the same value as the car . Not to add the other modifications which would be required to get the car to a level where stopping power of that level would be required .
Lets face it most ae86's will never be stopping at over 100ks per hour anyway , so add large piston / high coefficient pads and the stopping / brake reaction time might made such large brakes below standard systems in some areas .
Lets just look at the problems facing vehicle braking at very high speeds , for example , F1 cars are running booster assistants at speed over 200ks {most teams} this is done to increase the pedal pressure power at these speeed . This is done to decrease the stopping distance at the 300 > 200ks range , then under these speeds as the downforce isn't as great the high pedal pressure of the booster assistants would make locking of the wheels easy as well as poor pedal feel / less driver feel .
Then if you where to go a down to say a v8 supercar which way
would you set up a this equation ? for balance of the car when braking , and the fastest reaction time , since its mostly under 200ks .
1.
Front brakes : large piston caliper / large master cylinder
rear brakes : smaller piston caliper / large master cylinder
2.
Front brakes : large piston caliper / small master cylinder
rear brakes : smaller piston caliper / small master cylinder
3.
Front brakes : large piston caliper / large master cylinder
rear brakes : smaller piston caliper / small master cylinder
4.
Front brakes : large piston caliper / small master cylinder
rear brakes : smaller piston caliper / larger master cylinder
I think the answer would surprise a few people , who is going to take a guess ?
The rules of brake is not always BIGGER is better to a level , there are lots of engineering rules which are always changing as are ways of increasing stopping .
That kit and those american blocks un-finned alloy with spacers just inserted for different width discs just look so old school compared to the calipers being produced here i just cannot see the point .
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 28 January 2005 12:53
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My guess is 4.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 28 January 2005 14:03
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Its great to hear some good points about this kit. i have been stressing over this kit versus a more common conversion just to be a little bit more unique. I was just interested to see wether these were legal.
hmmm, so improvedae86, you would recommend AP racing calipers with Brembo rotors, or something similar to what you have: "Brakes , Car has had the normal toyota pug set up , to R32gts four pots using 16" wheels , now runs the best set up so far , S13 Sr20det sloted brembo rotors with R33 N/A calipiers with Special made pads . Nissan Master cylinder , wilwood bias valve , all new lines" instead.
I am going ahead with an SR20det conversion like yours, and i was keen not to go over 15" diameter wheels. But, it looks like if i was to follow your example and go with your setup, but instead running R32 GTR calipers, i would need 16" diameter wheels.
[Updated on: Fri, 28 January 2005 14:05]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Sat, 29 January 2005 00:55
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If you use Z32/R32 280x30mm rotors, 15" rims fit over them nicely.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Sat, 29 January 2005 01:43
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Not that I know much on the subject, but I'm gonna guess 2.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Sat, 29 January 2005 09:12
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I'd guess two, but six piston wilwood ca;ipers are available for erxes from mrt thus they shou;d be able to be adr approved
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Sat, 29 January 2005 15:58
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The kit I'm making for mine is a bit like the one above.
I'm using the Wilwood calipers but a RAV4 disc though.
That's the stock puny Starlet brakes on the bottom.
The new discs are 308mm diameter and 19mm thick, so a lot lighter than the ones in the above kit.
Bit of a pain to fit though, with the offset of the calipers.
FWIW they fit in a 15" wheel.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Sat, 29 January 2005 16:12
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Looking good Bill.
But do you think that a ap racing caliper with a brembo disk similar to improvedae86 would be a good route to take?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Sun, 30 January 2005 16:47
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I'm building a setup using radial mount Wilwood Billet Dynapro calipers with 295 x 25 DBA 5000 series rotors etc.
The cost will be more than double the price of the T3 setup, depending on how much freight, duty etc you pay on the T3 kit, so I think the T3 setup is not a bad deal for what it is.
My setup is for track use and is meant for the best balance between unsprung weight and braking efficiency, the T3 setup looks to have a pretty heavy rotor IMO and would be ok for a road setup depending on the licensing issues if that's a concern.
The AP/Brembo setup would work braking wise as well, add to the cost the price of machining up brackets and making hoses, maybe solving offset issues.
In the past for mostly road use I used commodore VN calipers and Magna rotors, totally satisfactory and cheaper than just about anything.
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Sun, 30 January 2005 17:58
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Would you guys like some detailed pics of some Wilwood calipers? You could then show them to someone to see if they are legal or not. The only disadvatage I see to not having rubber dust shields over the pistons is that on a pad change you will need to replace the pistons as well. Unless they are not damaged in any way.
I posted the following pics in another thread. This is a kit for an MA61 that we are using over here in North America. It is for the front and rear. The discs pictured are one front, one rear and one Z32 front for comparison. I have not installed it myself, but those who have say it has incredible stopping power.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Mon, 31 January 2005 01:21
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geez they are sexy looking brakes
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Location:
Barbados
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Tue, 01 February 2005 18:04
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heh bill i am doin a big brake conversion omy 86 usin wilwood calipers i saw that u have a setup usin rav4 discs can u tell me what year/model rav4 the disk are from also which willwood dynalite caliper did u use do u have part number/ specs on caliper thansk
email me just4umcc@hotmail.com
or does any one else know the width of rav4 caliper or the year?
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Tue, 01 February 2005 23:58
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I think they're off the early model one.
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Banned user
Location:
Liverpool NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Wed, 02 February 2005 09:31
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has anyone tried Mu rotors?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Thu, 03 February 2005 02:27
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DAMMIT!
I'd just cleaned-off and changed pants after the top pics, when I scroll down to the MA61 Wilwood kit. . . .
SPLOOOGE!
As a side-note, teh HSV GTS run FRIKKIN ENORMOUS 6-pot fronts, 4-pot rear pizza-trays. It has a very firm pedal, and quite decent feel - if a little wooden. My GTS-T has 4-pot fronts, 2-pot rear brakes, and it has brilliant progression, feel and stopping power.
Got Brakes?
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Location:
Barbados
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Thu, 03 February 2005 17:21
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and do u have specs on wilwood caliper als o what master cylinder did u use bill?
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 Brake kit. Massive.
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Fri, 04 February 2005 06:00
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| eurospec86 wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 04:21 |
and do u have specs on wilwood caliper als o what master cylinder did u use bill?
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It's a Superlite and I haven't sorted the master cylinder size yet as they're not fitted (though are getting close) and so I don't know the pedal pressure yet.
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