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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sat, 29 January 2005 11:06
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One for all the 4age fans , not much 4age left standard
Toyota Atlantic Engine Builder of the Year continuously from 1995 - 2003
http://www.hasselgren.com/id29.htm
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Location:
East Maitland NSW
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sat, 29 January 2005 11:37
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oh yeah that is sweet. i have a soft spot for age's and that is just a fine piece of work. just curious what kind of money would you pay for one of those babies??
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sat, 29 January 2005 13:23
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Oh baby oh baby oh
If you have to ask you can't afford it.
The dry sump piump alone is well into 4 figures out here.
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Location:
Inside a giant turbo (syd...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sat, 29 January 2005 14:13
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i think they are something like 30k!
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sat, 29 January 2005 16:18
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11000 RPM anyone? 
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Location:
south west sydney
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sat, 29 January 2005 17:57
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i am currently in ney york city, and there is an ae86 that is featured in a yank car mag, it has one of these motors in it.
$55000 to $65000 US for one of these puppies, article says it puts out 215HP, but as with most yank mags the write up was shithouse not very imformative.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 01:18
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| squeak wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 04:57 |
i am currently in ney york city, and there is an ae86 that is featured in a yank car mag, it has one of these motors in it.
$55000 to $65000 US for one of these puppies, article says it puts out 215HP, but as with most yank mags the write up was shithouse not very imformative.
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215HP sounds a bit low.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 06:37
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| Shraka wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 12:18 |
| squeak wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 04:57 |
i am currently in ney york city, and there is an ae86 that is featured in a yank car mag, it has one of these motors in it.
$55000 to $65000 US for one of these puppies, article says it puts out 215HP, but as with most yank mags the write up was shithouse not very imformative.
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215HP sounds a bit low.
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agreed i thought they could squeeze about 500hp out of these things 
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 07:37
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| Lench wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 16:37 |
| Shraka wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 12:18 |
| squeak wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 04:57 |
i am currently in ney york city, and there is an ae86 that is featured in a yank car mag, it has one of these motors in it.
$55000 to $65000 US for one of these puppies, article says it puts out 215HP, but as with most yank mags the write up was shithouse not very imformative.
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215HP sounds a bit low.
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agreed i thought they could squeeze about 500hp out of these things
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lol 500 hp NA, i dont think so. But mmmmmm looks tasty.
Daniel
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 07:57
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I visited Jaime Aislabie in New Zealand in 1998 - He builds very good Formula Atlantic engines - and he said the best he ever got (up to that point) was 242hp.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 08:17
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Hmmm different people building a "Formula Atlantic 4age".. I know not much about them but I thought they were special because thwy were built by a certain source soley with availability limited to whoever Toyota deams has the right to own one.....
Anyways, can someone fil me in.... according to these cases.
What defines an engine to be labelled "Formula Atlantic 4age"??
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 09:00
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Formula atlantic is simply a racing category that uses the 4AGE as the control engine. So by definition any 4AGE used in that racing category would be "labelled "Formula Atlantic 4age"".
It's not like Toyota made an engine and called it the forumla atlantic.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 09:33
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| Bill Sherwood wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 18:57 |
I visited Jaime Aislabie in New Zealand in 1998 - He builds very good Formula Atlantic engines - and he said the best he ever got (up to that point) was 242hp.
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Is that flywheel or rwhp Bill? For $55-$65k I would expect rwhp.
Cheers,
Jeremy.
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 12:09
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| AE86slut wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 20:33 |
Is that flywheel or rwhp Bill? For $55-$65k I would expect rwhp.
Cheers,
Jeremy.
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Flywheel.
However, the gearbox they use doesn't lose a lot of power so I'd guess a good 220 odd at the wheels.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 12:21
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Thanks for that Bill. 1 more question, average drivetrain loss in a 'normal' car i.e. road/no fancy g'box or diff setup? 20%?
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 14:23
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Spending all that money for only that much horse power must be depressing.
The things people do to be competitive..........
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 15:41
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I asked such a stupid Q as I didnt know what forumla atlantic was, stupid me, now I do.
At the time I thought Forumla Atlantic was the term to a race-bred 4age by some toyota tuning company for a specific race category.... now I know what it is lmao... I had it kinda backwards
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 22:11
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| AE86slut wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 23:21 |
Thanks for that Bill. 1 more question, average drivetrain loss in a 'normal' car i.e. road/no fancy g'box or diff setup? 20%?
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A typical RWD car would be between 20% - 25% I think.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 22:16
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| squeak wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 04:57 |
i am currently in ney york city, and there is an ae86 that is featured in a yank car mag, it has one of these motors in it.
$55000 to $65000 US for one of these puppies, article says it puts out 215HP, but as with most yank mags the write up was shithouse not very imformative.
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$65k usd ? thats just stupid if its true. Id expect a lot more power atw for that price. Although As bill mentioned 240hp is pretty much the limit of these things that Ive seen.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 22:48
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Its a bit of a joke realy the power output , lets look at say the history of the b series ford engines , be it lotus or say the late cosworth engines . The f2 1968 brabham which is owned by the Penrite oil company which is used in the historic racing here . That has one , i don't know which series since there was so many , bg be bd etc etc , lotus non hart headed 1.6 b series engines which runs the 45 webers 8v valve head unlike the hart 16v 48 webered engines . It revs to 9000rpm has 210-212 at the flywheel and due to the dated hewland transmission of the time has a loss back to 180 ish at the wheels . The hart head 16v version using the 48 webers has a power span of 8500 to 11000 rpm and where meant to have 240ish or more at the flywheel .
The designs of these earlier engines change continuously . There tried everything from different valve angles , yes cams in different locations , even different intake to exhaust side . Manifolds made into the heads , and all number of port designs . But the real limiting factor why these engines didn't make 250hp was the materials available to them at the time , there valves where too heavy and required long guides to control the valve from sticking . Due to the high air speed oscillation would stick the value in the guide and bang would follow if the engine was driven passed a limit . If they had the technology of today 250hp would have easily been had by them .
So is the atlantic 240hp just bullshit , or is this the limit of the 4age head design , block design , valve angle , stroke which is by far the latest advance in F1 engines after pneumatic valve operation . I would think that developing the same engine year after year would would surely hit a limit which there is no getting passed . So what is it really 240hp for the 4age after all it is based on a mass production engine after all .
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Sun, 30 January 2005 23:19
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im surprised bill hasnt said this yet.
building a racing engine is not soley about horsepower.
its all about compromise. putting the healthy spread of torque where you want it, or building it to run through the gears as fast as possible (under certain loads) etc all compromising the HP.
when someone is serious about forking over 65k they are thinking of much more than just how much HP it get.
so dont gauge the quality of the engine (or bang for buck) by one thing alone.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Mon, 31 January 2005 01:28
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You also can't expect to get bang for your buck from a NA engine that will compare in any way to forced induction.
I'm not saying aither one is bad but people see forced induction power outputs skyrocketing and expect this to happen for NA as well. It's just not feasable. There are companies out making more advanced and efficient compressors all the time. These can be used in conjunction with basically all of the NA based improvements that are happening. There isn't anyone working on increasing the atmospheric pressure of the planet though as far as I can tell so NA is never going to make the same improvements as forced.
A good NA engine is a delight to drive though.
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Mon, 31 January 2005 02:33
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| improvedae86 wrote on Mon, 31 January 2005 09:48 |
So is the atlantic 240hp just bullshit , or is this the limit of the 4age head design , block design , valve angle ,
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It's basically a limit because they have to use a specific cam, inlet manifold, etc. The head could also be a lot better.
If you got everything right, with the same revs you could be up to around 300hp no probs I reckon.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Mon, 31 January 2005 02:35
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| Bill Sherwood wrote on Mon, 31 January 2005 13:33 |
with the same revs you could be up to around 300hp no probs I reckon.
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That sounds more on the money. What cam specs do they run? And the inlet is restricted?
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Mon, 31 January 2005 07:01
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| AE86slut wrote on Mon, 31 January 2005 13:35 |
| Bill Sherwood wrote on Mon, 31 January 2005 13:33 |
with the same revs you could be up to around 300hp no probs I reckon.
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That sounds more on the money. What cam specs do they run? And the inlet is restricted?
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I don't have them handy, but I think they're straight from the TRD catalogue and the inlet is also a TRD part.
It's too long, and that's one reason why they're down a bit on power.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Mon, 31 January 2005 07:44
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Cool. Thanks for the info Bill.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 4age atlantic by Hasselgren
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Mon, 31 January 2005 08:01
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interesting that they dont run a electric water pump setup to alleviate (spelling?) some power.
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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