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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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4agze or 3sgte
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Wed, 09 February 2005 18:16
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i want to swap my engine from a 4afe from my 1990 4dr toyota corolla and put in a 4agze or a 3sgte, but idont know if they fit and which one is better regarding pick up and hp and such.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Wed, 09 February 2005 20:13
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go 3SGTE! you'll love it
the half cuts go for the same price. fabrication would be just alittle more but the results will be well worth it!
4AGZE Map sensored will put out - 70-100Kw at the wheels
a 3SGTE will put out 100-140kw at the wheels stock 
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Wed, 09 February 2005 23:32
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4agze is the easiest to do - its virtually a bolt in application with a little wiring.
3sgte on the other hand requires FABRICATION, and a fair bit of it.
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Location:
Sydney / NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 10 February 2005 01:56
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I would recommend the 3sgte if your up for it. like WITZL said there is a lot of custom fabrication required.
but specifically for your scenario I would go with the 4agze.
it simplifies a lot of things.
Karl
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 10 February 2005 02:15
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dont' forget that you can also replace the supercharger on the gze with a turbo for more power
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Location:
Oakleigh, Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 10 February 2005 02:40
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3S-GTE, an ex toyota flagship engine can't go wrong.
-Jay
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 10 February 2005 05:27
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what fabrications would have to be done to work the 3sgtewith my car, and would converting the 4agze to a turbo give me more power than the 3sgte. and if yes how would it be done and would it be easy.
thanks
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 10 February 2005 06:25
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| frenchboy1123 wrote on Thu, 10 February 2005 15:27 |
and would converting the 4agze to a turbo give me more power than the 3sgte.
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1.6L turbo vs 2.0L turbo. You decide.
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 10 February 2005 06:28
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i guess the 2.0 would be better, but is all the fabrication problems then
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 10 February 2005 10:29
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have a look at bigworms 4AGTE, he managed 180rwkw, theres quite a few of them popping up with decent power
another thing is that the GZE is lighter than the 3SGTE
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Location:
Oakleigh, Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 10 February 2005 15:14
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I have no idea where all the accessories like alternators, dizzys and wiring is. But a custom engine mount is on the list.
Don't forget to support ur new pro-found power with adequate brakes, suspension and tyres!
-Jay
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 00:59
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| finney wrote on Thu, 10 February 2005 21:29 |
have a look at bigworms 4AGTE, he managed 180rwkw, theres quite a few of them popping up with decent power
another thing is that the GZE is lighter than the 3SGTE
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My 4agte makes around the same and i would definitely recommend the 3sgte!
I regret every day that i didnt go 3sgte in my car. same price for either halfcut and the 2L makes way more power.
Dont start at the bottom and work your way up. Start at the top
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:11
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but like wut finney said the 3sgte is much heavier. but will give me more power thats for sure. i still need to know how much fabrication ill have to do and what tranny ill have to use.
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:14
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how does a halfcut work?
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:17
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How much power do you need going through the front wheels of a corolla?!? I would think 150kw+ is plenty?
I would suggest the 4agze. Lighter, less fabrication, still a lot of fun.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:22
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| frenchboy1123 wrote on Fri, 11 February 2005 09:11 |
but like wut finney said the 3sgte is much heavier.
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He didn't say much, you did. From all accounts there is only about 25kg difference there.
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Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:27
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a half cut is pretty much what is says.
it's the front half of the car with the rear cut off.
it's meant to have everything u need.
motor (duh!) and wiring and all those little bits u need,
in theory if u give it petrol you should be able to start it up and drive it around whist walking behind it (if it's front wheel drive).
so you get everything forward of the steering wheel.
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:43
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| ViPeR_NiPPleX wrote on Fri, 11 February 2005 12:17 |
How much power do you need going through the front wheels of a corolla?!? I would think 150kw+ is plenty?
I would suggest the 4agze. Lighter, less fabrication, still a lot of fun.
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You can never have "too much" powah 
As for the weight difference......If its only 25kg, that is stuff all.
To get 150kw atw you would do less to a 3sgte to get it. I know what sort of mods you have to do to a 4agte to get that power and for a few more fabrication mods to get the 3s in the car i would rather do that. Why strain a motor when you can get one that will do it easy.
my 2 cents......
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:46
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well if i go gte then what mods do i have to do to make the turbo work. could i also do a twin charger where you have the supercharger and the turbo is that possible or just converting to a gte better. also i want to compete with a 220hp VW new beetle my friend has.
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:53
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he has a turbo too
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 04:08
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well my car has around 240hp atw so.....
Bigger injectors
at least a gt28 turbo
2.5 inch exhaust
custom plenum
big intercooler
cams
a bit of engine work eg. better bearings, valve springs, balance
good clutch
computer
That should get you very close if not there
I wont even tell you what you should expect to pay for all that 
Thats why if you go for the 3sgte all you would need is an exhaust, cooler, air filter and turn up the boost. Im sure that would get very close just with 
Dont be scared by a little more work at the start, it will save you a lot of work later.
That is if you will be doing a bit of it yourself.....
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 04:38
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so wut enigne would i have to use the celica or mr2? wut tranny can i use since im fwd? and i dont want to buy a whole front or rear clip can i just buy the engine and replace it. i already have a k&n filter and a apex world sport exhaust. and the 3sgte wut turbo do they come with. would a t3 be a good upgrade. and exactly wut fabrication is needed to complete it. and i think i can get the engine for about $1000.
wow that was alot of quesitons
thanks in advance
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 05:10
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As previously mentioned, don't even try to do a 3sgte converion without a half cut.
Your best bet is to find someone who has done the conversion before.
If I were you, I'd research how hard it is to change the selector over from the front to the back on a mr2 gearbox (E158) and if it's not too hard, go for a mr2 half cut.
You'll also have to find out what combinations of driveshaft you're going to have to use to get the length right and to mate up with your hubs.
There'll be a ton of other stuff you'll need too
eg, front mount intercooler, unless you went gt4 top mount and modyfied you bonnet. GT4 alternator as I think the mr2 one will foul around the firewall.
The turbo it comes with is a ct26, and I wouldn't bother changing it yet. Doing the conversion alone will cost you $4-5K, twice that if someone else does the work for you. Once it's done, then play around with differrent turbo/manifolds etc.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 05:11
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You should get a MR2 halfcut because you will need to use the MR2 gearbox and drive shafts with GT4 outer CV's. You'll also want to get the GT4 alternator mount, alternator and crank pulley. The GT4 water neck would be handy as well as these are very different on the MR2.
Buying a bare engine is generally not a good idea for people who really know what they are doing. Based on the questions in this thread I really recomend a halfcut.
You will have to fabricate all four engine mounts.
The fabrication work involved in getting a 3S into the whole a 4A used to reside in is about equal to the fab work required to turbo the GAE in my opinion. The 3S is not a lot heavier than the 4A, there was no measurable change in the rear ride height of my AW11 after the swap.
The 3S will give you a much more torquey engine and will make the power fairly easily. With a good intercooler, dump pippe, exhaust and some tuning it should get you up to 270 whp on one of those dodgy US dyno's. The 4A will be able to make this power as well however it will be at higher revs and come onto power much more fiercely.
There is an upside to the 4A in a front wheel drive config though, it will be much easier to drive it without coming onto boost and therefore avoiding the torque steer issues when commuting.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 05:14
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beat you by a minute mate 
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 05:17
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| Joshstix wrote on Fri, 11 February 2005 16:11 |
There is an upside to the 4A in a front wheel drive config though, it will be much easier to drive it without coming onto boost and therefore avoiding the torque steer issues when commuting.
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But how much fun is torque steer! come on!
Everything Josh has said is true but.
I will say that the old 4ag isnt a bad engine. sounds good, goes hard. But i'd still go 3sgte 
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 11 February 2005 18:07
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No Message Body
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Mon, 14 February 2005 03:01
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No Message Body
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Location:
Ireland
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Mon, 14 February 2005 14:48
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Suprisingly my mate is doing such a swap into an AE92.
4e-fe straight up to an st185 gt4 3sgte.
Big hp jump.
He bought a gt4 with blown head gasket for the job.
Found out the gasket was gone on the way home of course.
First off, engine mounts. you can use stock toyota engine mounts from other toyotas, just need to line them up and weld into place in the ae92.
Thats your engine bolted in.
Carina 3 rad will drop in but you need to trim the metal at the sides. Upgrade the core to double when its all up and running.
Smaller alternator belt 8euro, or fancy tensioner pulley for AC removal (80Euro), you pick. exhaust: Need a customer downpipe from the cat to the center section.
Mate is using every last bit of gt4 wiring in his corolla, I mean ALL the wiring, body, engine, the lot. Just swapping connectors for lights and such. Most are plug and play though.
Upgraded fuel pump of course, just used the GT4 item.
Gearbox is an st202 SSIII 5 speed item. SW20 LSD box was hard to find and pricey, this option has non turbo celica FWD GT box with stock TRD LSD. Had spare Celica GT FWD boxes to abuse
Left drive is aw11 sc, right drive is sw11 sc inner (i think) and celica outer, or is it vice versa?
Probably swap in the GT4 speedo because its digital whereas the corolla used cable.
Suprisingly a plug and play affair. Just the welding and GT4 were the holdups/pricey parts.
GZE, bolt it in, wiring (7 wires), drive away!
Here in Ireland motor insurance is a nightmare so maybe a 1600 is your motor instead of a 2000cc. Plus more room to work on stuff. that ae92 bay is PACKED! Vcool!
[Updated on: Mon, 14 February 2005 14:50]
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Location:
California, USA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Thu, 17 February 2005 23:01
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bump
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 4agze or 3sgte
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Fri, 18 February 2005 01:39
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Food for thought.
In my ae92 sedan I have a map gze, turbo'd with a high flowed T3 on the most beautiful manifold and dump you have ever seen. Stock ECU, stock injectors, stock fuel pump. Dynod at 7psi it made 145atw kw. I drive it around on 14psi and I have no problem beating 5.0lt, r32 and 33s, 200s and even an audi s3 which I would say would chomp a turbo beetle. That sort of power would be more than enough for your first turbo car(i'm assuming). Only other thing you would need is an aftermarket fuel reg to overcome fuel cut.
For a much easier conversion, there is still a lot of power to be made.
~Josh
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