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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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"bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 06:17
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Brake Upgrades for FWD/4WD with 5x100 stud pattern
These started out as my original front brakes, & cause I’m more of a twisty road person, than straight line speed, I didn’t think they’d be adequate.
These are a single piston floating calliper.
First upgrade was to a set of ST185 Jap spec front callipers.
I didn’t need to change discs, which I’ve been told is the same for all Celicas upto ST20x models, Camrys, etc
The only mod needed was to grind away some of the brake backing plate to clear the calliper.
The brake lines bolts straight up with old fittings & hub-to-calliper bolts are identical.
Only problems is that you can’t buy these brake pads from Toyota, as the Aussie ST185 GT4 had a single piston calliper.
I took the old pads to a brake shop & they were able to match it.
Eg Bendix makes pads that suit.
After fitting these I found I had a brake balance problem (not helped that my rear struts were stuffed) caused by locking the rear drums. So I converted these to discs (there is another article on doing this)
Next step was to really get serious.
I managed to locate a set of ST205 discs & callipers off a half cut that wouldn’t fit the donor car. (The discs are TRD, not Toyota items and came pre-slotted)
As you can see they are much bigger than either of the other callipers I’d used.
The brake pads are also larger.
.... Single piston ........... Twin Piston ............... Four Piston
.......... ST16x, ST18x ........................... ST205
............ST205 ..................................ST16x, ST18x
There are a couple of traps I’ve discovered after getting these brakes which do not make them a straight bolt on.
These are all caused by the calliper mounting position.
The single & twin piston callipers are mounted on the wheel side of the hub, meaning the hub is simply drilled while the calliper is tapped.
[Updated on: Mon, 11 October 2004 06:18]
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: brake conversion options for 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 06:17
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The four piston calliper, due to its size is mounted on the other side of the hub. This means that the calliper is drilled while the ST205 hub is tapped.
(The wheel nuts are temporary for mounting purposes)
The calipers need to be modified to make the disc central. See later posts for further details
All 3 callipers have the same spacing for the mounting holes.
The extra wire with green clip is for the ABS
The bolts for the ST205 are the same overall diameter as the others
ST205 & ST185
This means the hubs need to be drilled out & tapped to accept a bigger bolt that will go through the ST205 calliper. The calliper also needs to be drilled out to accept the larger bolts. Any machine shop should be able to do this accurately.
ST205 M12 bolt & replacement M14 bolt (yet to be shortened)
These are all high tensile parts
The next big hurdle was when I tried to fit the disc & calliper onto the hub at the same time.
While the disc went on, & the calliper offset is correct, the mounting holes for the calliper didn’t line up by about 5mm.
Because the ST205 Celica GT4 has a unique double wishbone suspension, it was created around these brakes. Therefore the mounting holes have been positioned further out.
The fix for this is to get the disc machined down from 315mm diameter to 300mm diameter.
I had been told that this was required, but the reason was so that the ST185 wheels cleared the callipers, but now we know the truth.
ST205 disc after being machined down to 300mm
The last hurdle is to get new front brake lines.
Because the ST205 calliper is so large, the original flexible brake lines do not reach.
The ST205 has a solid metal line running from the calliper to the upper wishbone, then a flexible line from there.
Disc & Calliper fitted to car (yes they’d been painted by now)
I was able to overcome this problem by using brake lines off of the current ZZE122R Corolla. They were the same length from the car to the strut, but about 2cm longer from the strut to the calliper. To improve the length again, I bent the bracket that holds the brake line to the strut forward slightly.
My car is a 96 model where the brake line bolts to the strut, earlier cars with clips may have to source other lines (or do custom braided ones)
Caldina hose at the top vs Corolla hose
Due to the width of the callipers, there is now a very tight fit between them & the wheel.
Tight clearance of about 5mm
Because of the offset clearance, most 17” rims will not clear these, although the ones pictured will. (If you’re game to drive with 18” rims, you may have better luck)
Thanks for this go to Gary (GEE120) for letting me measure up his ST205, & Andrew (RAV-GT4) for not wanting to use the brakes on his conversion & selling them to me. 
BTW before you have any machining done on the disc, make sure they have thickness left in them. In had mine "faced" before I reduced the diameter. They are now on min thickness, so I would've much rather spent the money on getting new discs first.
[Updated on: Wed, 10 November 2004 00:53]
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: brake conversion options for 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 22:09
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| wagonist wrote on Mon, 11 October 2004 16:17 |
Due to the width of the callipers, there is now a very tight fit between them & the wheel.
Tight clearance of about 5mm
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Top writeup there and good details. On the above pic, if you think that is tight, next time you see a WRX Sti with the Brembo brakes nad factory 17" wheels, have a look at the caliper clearance there. I reckon it is down to 2 - 3mm !!!!
The clearance on my brake upgrade with 16" rims (326mm scubie discs and 300ZX 4 pots is close) but the 17" are OK, and I'm about to land some Porsche Monoblock calipers from a GT3 
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: brake conversion options for 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 22:27
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I saw an R33 Skyline at Eastern Ck street drags last week & I reckon the callipers were touching!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 22:43
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what made you go for ST205's and not STi brakes, they are pretty big are they not?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 22:45
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| MR 1GGTE wrote on Tue, 12 October 2004 08:43 |
what made you go for ST205's and not STi brakes, they are pretty big are they not?
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You have obviously not priced the STi Brembo calipers.
If you can find a pair, look for upwards of $1500 as there is such a demand from the Scubie community. Same as the Supra 4 potters...
Basically very good, but overpriced. Now the GT3 Monoblock calipers will be much less 
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 22:59
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Bolt on!
At that point I only had Toyota stuff on my car.
If Toyota made decent seats for a 4 door I wouldn't have put WRX seats in either.
There were no caliper brakets required + ST205 brakes are bigger.
STi brakes are only 294mm, these were machined down from 315!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 23:25
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| wagonist wrote on Tue, 12 October 2004 08:59 |
STi brakes are only 294mm, these were machined down from 315!
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WRX Sti (with Brembo's) are 326mm x 30mm.
Stndard WRX ones are 294mm dia x 24mm thick.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 11 October 2004 23:36
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That is only the current model & finding them are harder than finding ST205 ones...
Plus I don't think I could get the STi ones on the car for $1000 like I did with the ST205 ones.
Also, an engineer is more like going to pass my current setup as there is no visible machining done.
Oh, and Subaru front discs won't fit any FWD toyota that I know of.
The disc face is more inboard on a Subaru & this will interfere with the caliper mounter lugs on the hub. The current inside disc face is only about 5mm away from these lugs.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 01 November 2004 22:47
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Update on the brake situation:
The 2nd hand disc I bought got warped (8 thou)
Got a set of DBA long life slotteds.
These were machined down to 300mm diameter.
Becuase the previous discs were on their minimum thickness they fitted within the caliper, although were slightly offset.
Now that I have new discs, the outer face of the disc is just missing the caliper on one side & actually touching on the other.
I've have to remove the small shims/spacers/whatever that were on the caliper where it mounts to the hub.
This was still not sufficient.
Therefore, I am going to have the small boss that is protruding at this location machined off.
Will update when complete.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Wed, 10 November 2004 06:49
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Great write up, do the brakes feel like they pull up heaps better?
Do you know if your brake booster is the same as a st185, or is it small or bigger? One last thing what is the size of the pad contact measuring from the inside to out pretty much what that groove is on the pad? Thanks
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Sun, 14 November 2004 07:02
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Hey Wagonist,
Nice write up ! Got a few Qs thats making me think of other possible ways of doing the conversion.
I noticed that you didnt use a 5mm spacer in between the hub and disc so that the disc is centered inside the caliper and clears the bottom knuckle. Is this not necessary on a caldina? Also the center diameter on a ST205 disc is 55mm whilst only 54mm on the ST185. What is it on the caldina? Did you need to fit a spacer to properly center and balance the disc on the hub.
I have done this conversion on my ST185 and am now thinking is it possible to find an interchangeable hub (maybe ST204,ST205 or celica ZZT) that all are 5x100 and have a 55mm diameter. The only question is will the the hub fit inside the ST185 bearing housing.
Has anyone tried an actual hub swap. I never got the hubs with my brakes so I cant compare at the moment but if no one has tried this Im willing to give it a go while Im doing the bearings.
Do you think its possibe to do? Gary, we are going to pull apart your ST205 again till we get this right mate
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 15 November 2004 06:44
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Thanks for the info...... very interesting that the caldina also has a 55mm hub.
Ohh the angle grinder.... its an engineers best tool
Looks like the caldina is a better candidate for the ST205 brake transplant than the ST185.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 15 November 2004 22:38
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As its a 1996 model, it has common parts with the ST20# series Celica, not the ST18# series.
All ST20# front brakes have a 55mm hub.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Fri, 18 February 2005 15:52
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How much of a gap did you leave between the edge of the rotors and the inside of the calipers?
Wouldnt want them seizing up when the rotors expand from heat.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 28 March 2005 15:04
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man this is a very interesting thread...i did the jap spec st185 twin piston brake conversion to my st162 celica cause it came with the cut...and yeah i got the bandix pads first time but then when went to autobarn to get ebc green stuff i wondered way i got the shity single pistons pads ordered in when i asked for st185 pads...poor aussie st185...
anyways...it very good to know that the st205 ones BOLT on with the same spaced holes and yeah making bigger and taping new shit shouldn't be that hard.... all that pisses me off is that i need 16in rims as a min i only got 15in... and i'm to cheap goign out and getting new rims atm.
and i'm with you..i live in the mountains and big brakes turn me on more than a huge turbo!....plus st205 brakes are a good option for me cause i can get away with not getting them mod plated (engineered)again cause in the files it say i got "GT-4" caliper and rotors...not st185 so st205 are also "GT-4" brakes...got to love it...
to finish...bloody great write up i'm bookmarking this thread for future referance and any idea's where i can get st205 caliper and rotors (not your cause i'd offer too less)...
Nezza 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Sat, 02 July 2005 04:02
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does anyone know what the bolt spacing is between the two mounting points on the hub where the caliper monts?
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: "bolt on" brake conversion options for FWD/4WD 5 x 100 stud pattern
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Mon, 25 July 2005 13:09
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They're a bit hard to get to at the moment, but its the same as any FWD Celica (or GT4) or Camry (not sure about the models since 99 though)
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