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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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$1500 4age conversion????
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Tue, 15 February 2005 14:47
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I've managed to chase down a blue top with reletivly low mileage. Its going to cost me $1500 for the engine and wiring and running, so I give or take $1800 including miscelleneous parts and hiring an engine hoist. I will be performing most of the converion myself with helps of friends. My question is, is this a good deal? The engine is in good condition, with loom, ecu, extractors, flywheel. Anyone out there who has gone down a similar path it would be great to hear from you as I would like to get started as soon as possible.
My other question is the fuel pump. I've been told to get a vl fuel pump. Is there anything else other than the fuel pump that I would need to get? Efi, surge tank? or is this sufficient?
Thanks guys
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Wed, 16 February 2005 05:04
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No Car
What are you converting from? I paid $1,500 for a full Front Cut of a 20 valve Silvertop 4AGE with 116,000 km to go into my AE90 carby. I just paid $165 for an EFI Fuel Tank and lines with pump off a CSI Limited. I have been quoted $450 to do the wiring and Mod Plate in Brisbane. I am still figuring out my instrument cluster. Other than that it's hoses, fluids, consumables etc. And bigger wheels to fit my AE101 brakes in. 
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Wed, 16 February 2005 15:06
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I am taking the 4ac out from my sprinter and replacing it with the blue top.
The $1500 dollar package comes with engine (75000km), extractors, flywheel, loom, ecu, basiacally all the engine bits that are required to get the car running and about $500 for the wiring. The car isn't registered. Is there anything that I will need to look out for when i do this conversion as the car will be going through the pits?
I have to supply the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel hose, fuel pump wire, air filter, accelarator, radiator (cos mine is busted), and stronger clutch. All of the items will be picked up from the wreckers. Engine hoist is costing me $35 per day.
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Wed, 16 February 2005 15:28
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clint has a good condition silvertop for sale, as he also has a few extra bits, give him a holler, personally i thinkw you could get a bit cheaper...
why specifically a bluetop?
and what are you doing the the 4ac when you finished? PM me if your selling it 
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Thu, 17 February 2005 10:15
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maybe cause the blue top is already RWD?
i hope your not getting all that stuff from the wreckers, ie fuel lines. go brand new for stuf like that.
a VL pump will be fine, you may want to run a surge tank. when mine was gze i ran a high pressure pump on its own without surge tank or lift pump. i think it may have bee na VN pump? either way the better option is a VL pump and surge tank. dont let ppl try and sell you a VL TURBO pump for an inflated price as the NA and turbo pumps are identical.
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Thu, 17 February 2005 11:31
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Yes cos the engine is already RWD import and wil drop straight in.
EldarO I'll let you know when I am done with the engine. Its coming out this Saturday. I'll let you know. PM your offer. Have you managed to track down an AE86?
EVOSTI I will be getting most of the parts I need from the wreckers. I will be using the existing fuel line as I have been told I don't need to replace it. Should it need replacing I will get a new one. As for the surge tank I will leave that till later as the VL pump will be suffiecient for the time being. Thanks for the advice. Was there anything else that I should watch out for and purchase brand new?
Anyone out there know what the retail price is for a PBR clutch for the 4age. I was qouted $220, $355, $284. Its all over the place and the staff I think they don't know what they're talking about.ie don't know what comes with the clutch kit.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Thu, 17 February 2005 11:37
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$220 sounds about right for retail. why do you specifically want PBR? Exedy are a better brand imo. all kits from pbr/exedy come with plate, disc and bearing. what more do you want?
you do need to replace the fuel lines, not the metal lines but the rubber hoses to the engine. just use a regular Z200 fuel filter. also you may as well run a carby fuel filter before the pump (the pump can draw through it).
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Location:
sydney, nearest store nea...
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Thu, 17 February 2005 11:56
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how much would it cost for labour?? im thinking abt dropping a 20valve in but the beating of fire wall yada yada...
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Fri, 18 February 2005 06:28
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| no car wrote on Fri, 18 February 2005 17:13 |
I have been told that i can use the existing fuel lines by my mechanic and some friends.
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well then, your mechanic and friends have no fecking idea do they idiots....
carby = low pressure hoses.
EFI = high pressure hoses.
no person in their right mind would suggest that you use the existing rubber lines
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Gippsland Lakes. Vic.
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sat, 19 February 2005 01:23
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"your mechanic and friends have no fecking idea do they idiots...."
Perhaps they are referring to the steel fuel LINES & are therefore undeserving of your response . What you say about fuel HOSE is of course correct & was also referred to earlier. Cheers
Emmac.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sat, 19 February 2005 01:56
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| no car wrote on Thu, 17 February 2005 02:06 |
I have to supply the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel hose,
I will be using the existing fuel line as I have been told I don't need to replace it. Should it need replacing I will get a new one
I have been told that i can use the existing fuel lines by my mechanic and some friends.
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maybe they are, but from the unedited responses it didn't appear clear that the poster understood this... it's always good to reinforce safety issues.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sat, 19 February 2005 03:43
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i cant beleive noone mentioned the second hand fuel filter!!! are you nuts??? you mean the wrecker actually made you pay MONEY for a second hand fuel filter? man if you cant afford to even use new filters, you cant afford a car let alone deserve one. seriously im not trying to sound like an asshole (which i always do for some reason  ) but you cannot use second hand filters its just stupid.
and also dont listen to your mechanic. im a mechanic, and im telling you to use new fuel HOSES. yes you can use the old steel fuel LINES, but you cant use the hoses.
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Location:
Gippsland Lakes. Vic.
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sat, 19 February 2005 04:11
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Yes, of course it's very important that safety issues be understood & adhered too,I couldn't agree more & think it a good idea that you highlight this fact. However, I read your QUOTE from no car as showing that the difference between fuel line & fuel hose was being understood & distinguished between,in this case,and therefore the mechanic & friends being called "idiots with no fecking idea" as totally out of line & uncalled for. That's all. Cheers
emmac.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sat, 19 February 2005 04:14
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I very much agree evosti, ignoring the fact u were actually charged for a second hand consumable like a fuel filter, just go buy a new one they arn't expensive and u have no idea of a 2nd hand ones condition.
Yes you can use existing steel fuel lines as you have been told, but u need to replace the rubber lines to efi high pressure ones.
On the surge tank just see how u go as my 4ag sprinter never surged unless really low fuel, took it to the track no worries, but others experience it at 1/3 tank.
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sat, 19 February 2005 13:28
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Hey guys. Just want to clear things up. This is my first time doing an engine conversion and with some help from my friends. I have transplant6ed the engine today with litte trouble.
On the issue of fuel lines and fuel hoses, are these both the same thing or are they different? (pls excuse my lack of knowledge here)it just sounds alittle comfusing. So I've been told to replace the fuel hoses. What are some of the problems that I may encounter if I was to use second hand parts for the previously mention issue.
EVOSTI point taken thanks. New fuel filter. Kinda confusing when one person says one thing and another says the other.
A few of my friends have done this conversion with no problems. I have seen these conversions personally. Has anyone gone about their conversion using second hand fuel filter and original fuel lines and rubber hoses. Please enlighten me peoplez. Thank u.
Will fuel surge I were to drive conservatively on low fuel (b4 E blinker comes on) and using VL fuel pump? (Sorry for the dumb question) I have no idea.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sat, 19 February 2005 13:36
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your original fuel rubber tubing is rated for carby apps, ie 3-5psi.
EFI uses 40psi or so, and you need higher rated rubber line.
the steel lines are fine for both pressures.
new fuel filter is cheap insurance..
fucking up your injectors from rubbish getting in them from a 2nd hand filter is an expensive mistake.
so. steel lines ok. BUY BRAND NEW EFI RATED RUBBER FUEL TUBING AND REPLACE ALL OF YOUR RUBBER FUEL TUBING WITH THIS (EVEN RETURN LINE SO THERE IS NO CONFUSION). buy from auto shop or pirtek or enzed etc. make sure it is rated for fuel and for at least 60-100psi..
Cya, Stewart
Emmac, that more helpful  heh heh
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sun, 20 February 2005 03:29
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You won't have trouble with surging unless you start cornering hard on low fuel because the fuel in the tank all moves to one side without any kind of EFI baffling in the tank.
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Location:
Gippsland Lakes. Vic.
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sun, 20 February 2005 04:06
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G'Day Stewart
Yes much more helpful & nicer. Well done. I now see that your original summation was perfectly correct.You obviously understand your audience much better than I do. To make it perfectly clear the STEEL PIPES are the LINES the RUBBER TUBING is the HOSE.That's probably what the mechanic was trying to tell him.We probably should also inform him that there are specific purpose efi fuel hose worm screw drive hose clamps to use as distinct from the radiator hose type.
Cheers
emmac.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sun, 20 February 2005 04:21
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| emmac wrote on Sun, 20 February 2005 15:06 |
We probably should also inform him that there are specific purpose efi fuel hose worm screw drive hose clamps to use as distinct from the radiator hose type.
Cheers
emmac.
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indeed we should
many people still refer to the rubber as "fuel line" or "fuel tube" so it can be a bit.. vague... especially from mechanics..
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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 Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sun, 20 February 2005 13:02
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Cheers guys. Thanks for the help. I went out and got some of the things I needed today (new). I will be picking up the VL fuel pump 2morow and will be dropping the car off to get the wiring done. THe hose I bought were fro super cheap. They didn't have any ratings on it and neither did any of the staff have any clue. However it did say it suits most makes and models. Commodore was listed so I assume that this hose will be ok.
Just a question with the fuel pump. What should I look out for and how do I tell what kind of condition its in. Is there anyway of testing it?
And what about the hose clamps? Should I be getting the worm screw clamps for the hose?
Cheers
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Mon, 21 February 2005 05:35
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the only way to test the pump is to stick a hose on the end, and stick the hose in a tin of fuel and run 12v to it, fuel should come out, if not dont get it.
get fuel clamps from a place like auto one auto pro etc and ask for efi clamps. generaly if they have a screw to tighten the clamp and not some prongs you can squeeze with pliers then they should be fine.
no one will have experience with running a second hand fuel filter and carby lines cause noone would be willing to admit it if they tried it.
fuel filters are like $5 brand new. would you drain oil out of a car at the wreckers and use that?
in reagards to fuel surge on fuel injected cars, its generally best to not let your car go much below 1/4 tank as your likely to pick up crap from your tank and put it through the pump/lines. if your fuel light comes on, thats already too low.
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Mon, 21 February 2005 12:07
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Picked up the fuel pump today and its all good. Started work on installing the fuel pump. I've taken the fuel tank and I have been told that you can use the bracket of the 4ac igneter to hold the fuel pump in place. No I hve come into plumbing problems. There are 3 metal lines and kinda have have no idea which line is which. Is there a way of telling which is which as I would like to connect my fuel pump.
My other is issue is the clutch cable. Its located n the left of the gear box and damn close to the exhaust manifold. I am thinking of replacing the hose with a longer one and running it up and down (u shape) against the firewall. Is this the right way to go about it?
Thanx EVOSTI your a champ mate. This conversion is costing as much as I have expected and budgeted for. Would be less if I didn't have to pay for timeing belt, rego, new radiator and clutch kit.
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Registered:
February 2005
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Mon, 21 February 2005 12:36
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so how long did it take you altogether and how difficult was it?
im planning to swap a smallport 16v 4age into a AE92 hatchback and mechanically...i aint that great. Do you know of any sites that explain this conversion or suggest anything to prepare myself for this conversion because i plan to do it myself.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Mon, 21 February 2005 21:05
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Yes the exhaust manifold will run close to the clutch master cylender... Its not ideal but it should be fine, how close are you talking about?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Mon, 21 February 2005 21:47
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Yeah, the biggest line (metal) is the send, and the next biggest is the charcoal vent.
Dont mix them up, or you will get no fuel.
The clutch line runs REALLY close, i reccomend going to your local hose dealer (pirtek etc) and take in your clutch slave line (rubber) too. Get them to make you up one which is two to two and a half times as long in braided steel.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Tue, 22 February 2005 05:40
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no big deal if you mix the fuel supply and carbon canister line up, itll just fill the carbon canister with fuel, drain it, and switch the lines
when you say your gonna use the igniter bracket for the fuel pump, you dont mean in the engine bay right? you need to mount as close to the tank as possible, i assume you meant your gonna use it as a braket near the tank and not have it in the engine bay. i used the coil bracket for my fuel pump, its a pretty close fit for the VL pump.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Tue, 22 February 2005 06:29
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I have both of my pumps in the engine bay. Works fine.
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Tue, 22 February 2005 12:41
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Thanks a bunch guys for the information and support.
Takai I had a custom clutch hose made up today. Its 930mm long and i am running it up along the firewall, ovber the manifold and back down. The clearance is tight. About 20mm max both sides. I hope this will be enough clearance. I thought about getting a braided hose but the guy said it would be fine.
EVOSTI I used the bracket from the igniter (4ac). It fits around the fuel pump fine. I mounted the fuel pump against the tyre well underneathe the car. I hope its ok. I remember some one mentioning about mounting the fuel pump as low as possible for better performance.
As my car will be going thru the pits for re-registration will the mounting of the fuel pump to the tyre well be ok. I drilled from the tyre well inside out and nut/bolted the bracket and fuel pump in place. Its sturdy.
I forgot to decribe the fuel lines. Two of the fuel lines lined up on the outside are the large ones and they are both the same size. The one in the middle is the smallest. My sprinter is and 84 model, could this be a reason for the difference in the fuel lines. Now I'm really confused.
i'm looking at at getting the fuel pump wire 2morow. What size gauge should I get? Single or twin core? and what is the amp?
Ox2k my advice to you is to do as much research as you can. Do some planning. Be prepared for everything and anything that may happen. If you're on a budget, be prepare to go over it. Have good friend, many hands and knowledge. These are the people that will help you thru. Have lots of patience as well. Good luck.
Cheers guys
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Wed, 23 February 2005 09:58
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plenty of people have fuel pumps/surge tanks in the engine bay. ofcourse it works fine, i just think its stupid when there is plenty or room elsewhere, the engine bay is a poor place imo.
yes the lower the pump the better, but my pump was above the level of the tank, its probably a little more work for it but its still ok.
all sprinters have two of the same sized lines. to work out the one you want just blow through it at the tank and get someone to look in the engine bay to see which one your blowing through.
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Wed, 23 February 2005 14:23
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Thanx again EVOSTI. My pump sits on same level of the top of the tank.
I fitted the fuel pump on today. It looks real neat and I feel damn proud of myself. I just hope that it all works out right. Basically what I've done is I followed the fuel line (the one that goes into the engine) from the engine bay and traced it back to the tank. I then hooked up the fuel pump accordingly. I hope that I've got it right coz its a pain in the ass to swtich in such a tight spot. With the other two lines I simply matched them up with whats left. The smallest line goes to the charcoal cannister. Is it neccessary to hook up the charcoal cannister line? And what about the other line? or is there solution?
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Thu, 24 February 2005 09:32
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its necessary to connect the charcoal canister for it to be legal. however a cop generally wont spot the fact you missing one when they are defecting you for pod filter, wrong engine etc...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Fri, 25 February 2005 00:19
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| emmac wrote on Sun, 20 February 2005 15:06 |
specific purpose efi fuel hose worm screw drive hose clamps
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that sounds funny.
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Fri, 25 February 2005 04:29
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So will I beable to get past the pits with a pod filter? Or will I be up in the stitch? Any soloutions?
My car is at the workshop at the moment getting the wiring sorted out. I jsut hope that I will beable to past the pit? Having some thoughts about what the pit staff are going to scrutinise the car on.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Fri, 25 February 2005 04:52
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Sorry to jack the thread but...is that you Swee or Mark?
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Location:
Gippsland Lakes. Vic.
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Fri, 25 February 2005 10:44
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" specific purpose efi fuel hose worm screw drive hose clamps"
"THAT SOUNDS FUNNY"
Devolutio
Tridon, Norma & I daresay other manufacturers make what they call EFI series screw drive hose clamps.These have an extended tang inside the clamp to cover the notches & prevent damage to the hose when tightening. No more cut bits of hose sticking through the notches,like you may have seen with the more common type , when you use these.
Cheers
Emmac.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Fri, 25 February 2005 22:18
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Are you getting the car fully re-registered (over the pits) or just getting the engine number changed? I got my engine numbers changed and they didn't care about the pod filter. They arn't like cops so I don't reckon it will matter
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sun, 27 February 2005 00:22
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Ribbo I am getting the whole car re registered I guess as the vehicle isn't registered already. I've been told by some people that its best to stick with the original airbox and then mount the airfilter later. Some people hav told me that it should be fine to pass the pits. I have a simota filter (only temporary use). I was just thinking is there any requirements for airfilters to meet ADR standards. Say KnN over simota?
The car is in the workshop and I have been told the crank is making some sqeaky noises. The mechanic reckons that the clutch was assembled unevenly. From my rec-collection the cltuch was alligend correctly. The grear box went on with little trouble. I was thinking that it was becoz the whole clutch kit is brand new. Is there any other explaination for this noise. I am alittle worried about how it might affect the car and overall performance and especially my wallet?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sun, 27 February 2005 02:57
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You arn't getting it actually engineered so ADR's don't really matter, Any kind of pod filter they may not like though. The blue slipper that did mine didn't care.
I would try with the pod filter and if they say anything either go to a different one or go to the effort of fitting an air box.
You may have trouble with the 4age because it isn't standard, it will all depend on the blue slipper, some say you need to engineer the 4age and some don't care because it is still a 4a motor, just find one that will pass it as being the same engine family.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Sun, 27 February 2005 10:02
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I have used VL pumps for at least 3 conversions, good for 150kw.
$500 for wiring?? It takes about 5 wires to connect a 4AGE loom into a car.
20V requires a few mods to fit, mainly to do with the water system, and a multicoil adapter or after market ecu.
The RWD 4age is not terribly exciting, and I have seen loom/ecu/engine combos for $1000
Jap spec ECU revs to 8200 vs aussie 7700 limit.
get a 20V or ZE, the difference over a blue top is amasing
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Location:
perth wa
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Mon, 28 February 2005 06:58
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Foxtail I decided to go with the blue top as it would be an easy conversion. And if only I knew what I was doing and had the experience then things like wiring and hooking a black top, customising my own rear disk brakes, making my own extractors would be like a walk in the park...maybe trip over once in a while.
Someone on this forum has gone through such feat. 20v conversion and oven modifications and fabrications. He also went through the trouble of detailing it. Can't remember his name but I know that he is not a welder by trade but an electrician, I think. If this person is you I applaude you on your work and keep up the good work. Your an inspiration to others. Thanx
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: $1500 4age conversion????
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Wed, 02 March 2005 04:59
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Hey guys. I bought a red top 4age 100kw with wiring, loom, computer, fuel pumps/lines and it already converted to rwd for $800.
I am putting it in my ke25 so it'll just be a matter of mounts, g'box, prop shaft and diff.
But most of the annoying engine stuff has already been done.
Michael
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