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Location:
Sydney - Seven Hills
Registered:
January 2005
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LSD information for sprinters
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Mon, 28 February 2005 23:40
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Hey guys.
Been doing a little searching around the threads and found some info on lsds for the sprinters and was just curious.
I have an aus spec sprinter and also managed to find an alleged "2 way locker" - *shrugs* stuffed if I'd know if it was a 2 way locker but I was told it was.
Question 1.
How do you know if it is a 2 way locker
Question 2.
Will it fit into an/my aus spec sprinter?
Question 3.
I know they are supreme for drifting/burnouts/mischievous behavior. But how are they for just daily driving as well? I heard that they are mongrels to drive around when turning causing the tail to shudder when turning.
By the way. I finally managed to look at it again through some light and found out that it has 23 splines. (hopefully what I'm counting on the inside are the splines)
Now I haven't actually bought the LSD but have it in my hands and am contemplating the purchase of it. Some friends say yes and some say that its not worth bothering if I'm only using it as a daily driver for the mean time.
Cheers in advance
-natskis
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Mon, 28 February 2005 23:57
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1. a lockers a locker
2. probably to suit a tseries rear end so no
3. lockers are gay on street
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Location:
perth
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Tue, 01 March 2005 17:07
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hey dude , ive got tha same aus spec as urs.
Just so happens that ive got a roooted stock diff in my driveway in bits (pinion gear exploded). I counted the outside splines on the axle which is 23, so i think ur in luck.
Ive been led to believe a 2 way lsd locks on acceleration and also deceleration.
The internal mechs of these diffs r quite complex so to be able to test integrity without installation needs a keen eye.
(Before i found this site there was no way i could source a lsd
or even worse a disc brake rear end any where besides japland,
so a modded hi-lux disc lsd is workin a treat.
Need to buy some axles... you will..
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Location:
perth
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Tue, 01 March 2005 17:17
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Can i just also add.... that ae95 needs to adjust his driving style.
lockers on tha street kick ass!! even better in tha 86's.
sure thats not a camry ur drivin??
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Location:
Inside a giant turbo (syd...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Tue, 01 March 2005 23:38
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i believe hes talking about shudder on low speed turns and parking. Mr Plod can easily notice this if hes close by.
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Wed, 02 March 2005 00:15
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| natskis wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 10:40 |
Hey guys.
Been doing a little searching around the threads and found some info on lsds for the sprinters and was just curious.
I have an aus spec sprinter and also managed to find an alleged "2 way locker" - *shrugs* stuffed if I'd know if it was a 2 way locker but I was told it was.
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there is no such term as a '2 way locker'. You seem to be combining a '2 way LSD', and a 'locker diff' - they are two different things:
2 way LSD:
locked diff:
(this is a T series - the spider gears inside the centre are welded)
| natskis wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 10:40 |
Question 1.
How do you know if it is a 2 way locker
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Well, this question can't be answered unless either '2 way LSD' or 'locker diff' is used.
If it's a 2 way LSD, the only way to really tell is to put it in and notice when the back wheels lock up when losing traction. 2 way will be locking both wheels on acceleration AND deceleration.
If it's complete locked diff and you wanna know if it's locked, just put the diff/centre on ur car and you'll notice the difference straight away. Makes 3 point turns a nightmare 
and of course if it was a normal diff, there'd be no difference.
| natskis wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 10:40 |
Question 2.
Will it fit into an/my aus spec sprinter?
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your aus spec sprinter has an S series diff standard - you can take the centre out and weld the spider gears to make it a locked diff and have somewhat the same effect as an LSD, only makes it a pain to drive daily.
If you are talking about a 2 way LSD, it will NOT fit into the aus spec diff housing as it is too small. You will need to acquire a T series diff off a T-18 toyota and put the LSD inside the centre. Your final gear should be changed too.
| natskis wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 10:40 |
Question 3.
I know they are supreme for drifting/burnouts/mischievous behavior. But how are they for just daily driving as well? I heard that they are mongrels to drive around when turning causing the tail to shudder when turning.
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Again, you're confused with the two terms.
The LSD is the supreme item. It acts as an open centre on normal driving (spider gears can turn, no stress on axles/pinion gears) and when it senses loss of traction (ie. drift/burnout/etc) the clutch mechanism inside will make both wheels spin (like a locked diff) so it will engange and disengage by itself - pure genious stuff!
The locked diff is the mongrel to drive everyday.
| natskis wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 10:40 |
By the way. I finally managed to look at it again through some light and found out that it has 23 splines. (hopefully what I'm counting on the inside are the splines)
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ok - here it looks as if you are talking about the LSD. NOT the locked diff.
if it's a 23 spline carrier, it'll be a zenki (earlier) LSD, you also have to determine whether it is a clutch type or a mechanical (considerable difference in performance/price)
| natskis wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 10:40 |
Now I haven't actually bought the LSD but have it in my hands and am contemplating the purchase of it. Some friends say yes and some say that its not worth bothering if I'm only using it as a daily driver for the mean time.
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well i'm afraid your friends are just as confused as you, the LSD is the perfect solution for street/drift application.
The locked diff is the cheap way to drift but a mongrel on roads
hope it helps !
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Wed, 02 March 2005 03:55
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ae86slaver: I've always been interested in knowing what the hell a 1.5 way is. Does it only sometimes lock both the wheels on a compression lockup? 
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Location:
Sydney - Seven Hills
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Wed, 02 March 2005 04:57
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| ae86slaver wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 11:15 |
hope it helps !
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Damn straight it helped :)You're a champ!
cheers for that...
hmmm 2 way lsd.
By the way... how do you find out if it is a clutch type or if it is mechanical?
AND what is the difference?
By the way... what is then the difference between the
1 way lsd
1.5 way lsd and the
2 way lsd?
Or am I completly on the wrong path again?
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Wed, 02 March 2005 05:27
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1 WAY = locks on throttle ON only. (good for beginners, lacks aggression for autocross and drift but is very 'safe' for beginners)
1.5 WAY = locks on throttle on and half locks on throttle off(when you off throttle it wont snap as hard as a 2 way but it will snap back a little bit)
2 WAY = locks fully on both throttle and off throttle (snaps back very aggressively when you step off throttle)
Cusco - Awesome 'MZ' plates, crap housing (no oil flow), a little noisy
TRD - good OEM plates (same as stocker LSD's), awesome housing(strong and good flow of oil), fairly quiet
Kaaz - great plates, housing has tendancy to crack, very quiet
Tomei - good plates, crap housing (fuck all oil flow in/out), noisy as hell
mechanical and clutch?
well, basically clutch LSD's would be far less impacting than a mechanical LSD. Price would be considerably different too as the clutch type LSD came out of factory cars and are not as advanced as mechanical types.
To tell, you'd have to look carefully inside the carrier window and find the size of the clutch packs, hard to explain but the seller should know if it was mechanical or not.
so did you find out what type it was?
an LSD or a locked diff???
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Location:
Sydney - Seven Hills
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Wed, 02 March 2005 07:10
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kewl.
well its allegedly a 2 way LSD - as the picture also indicates 
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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2003
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:43
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well....its allways good to see someone help out a newbie....nice work there ae86slaver, ur a gentleman and a scholar 
so a trd lsd is cluch type?
and clutch type is better?
Adam
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:08
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no.
mechanical is supreme to the clutch type.
Factory LSD's are mostly clutch type, and would be 1,1.5 way, so the effect is not too dramatic - as opposed to a 2 way mechanical LSD diff with strong housing.
That could explain the pricing of these items 
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Location:
Sydney - Seven Hills
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 04:36
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So mechanical is superior to the clutch type.
To fully comprehend why. Could you explain the difference between the two?
For example, when you say mechanical and clutch, you are talking about the interior of the lsd right? So im guessing that there is a clutching system inside the lsd that would disconnect until you wanted the limited slip diff to activate.
If that assumption is correct and from what your saying, what system would make the mechanical system better?
Really curious about this.
b.t.w. for all those out there that wanted to know
This is from a google search
"For The Engineering Major:
A Limited Slip Differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that reduces wheel spin, especially when cornering at high speed by allowing for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts. Limited Slip Differential (LSD) does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. By limiting the velocity difference between the pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.
For The Rest of Us:
The Limited Slip Differential (LSD) reduces wheel spin while cornering at high speeds to maintain:
* Go-kart like handling.
* Optimum traction between tires and pavement."
So in otherwords, the lsd doesnt actually lock the two wheels so that they spin at the same rate like a locked diff, it just restricts the rotational speed difference between the two tires allowing for BETTER cornering and better traction! (and burnouts and drifting muhahaha)
Just thought I'd add that because it just dispelled some misconceptions I had about the lsds.
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 05:30
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yep your're on the right track 
this is a clutch LSD:
'This type of LSD has all of the same components as an open differential, but it adds a spring pack and a set of clutches. Some of these have a cone clutch that is just like the synchronizers in a manual transmission.
The spring pack pushes the side gears against the clutches, which are attached to the cage. Both side gears spin with the cage when both wheels are moving at the same speed, and the clutches aren't really needed -- the only time the clutches step in is when something happens to make one wheel spin faster than the other, as in a turn. The clutches fight this behavior, wanting both wheels to go the same speed. If one wheel wants to spin faster than the other, it must first overpower the clutch. The stiffness of the springs combined with the friction of the clutch determine how much torque it takes to overpower it. '
-taken from howstuffworks.com
And this explains it well also:
'There are two main forms of differential - mechanical and viscous differentials. Mechanical differentials have a series of cones that engage within the differential to lock the torque split when the relative axle speed differential exceed a certain ratio. Because this is mechanical the torque split once locked is a certain ratio - there are more complex ones like the Quaife which are far more progressive in effect than the older banjo type ones like the Ford 9 inch and detroit lockers.'
My understanding is that the clutch type LSD use clutch packs to push the side gears when sensing one wheel is spinning faster, and that mechanical LSD's use a set of cones which smartly split the torque in a set ratio to each wheel.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 08:15
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well.....if all the trd / kazz / tomei / cusco and so on lsd's are clutch type....why doesent every1 want to get the mechanical ones....such as the supra torsen sensing ones instead of the swoit cusco items?
i think that all non viscous LSD's are considered mechanical.....the only other type being viscous
think about it, it makes sense
Adam
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 08:20
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There's some confusing terminology here... wtf is a "mechanical LSD" supposed to be? All differentials are mechanical! 
Reading back through the thread I think you guys are talking about a Detroit-style locker, which isn't an LSD as such. On the other hand you might be talking about helical-type LSD's (aka TorSen) which is an LSD but doesn't contain friction surfaces like clutch and cone type LSD's do.
IMO there are only two options to consider for a street-driven car: clutch or torsen. I don't think you can get aftermarket cone-type LSD's because the cones actually interface with the diff housing; you're only likely to have one of these if you've done a Borg-Warner diff conversion.
Anyway, the pros and cons of clutch and torsen LSD's have been discussed on numerous occasions so I won't bother repeating them here.
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 08:29
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Mate, all you ahve to know is, when one wheel breaks traction, an lsd will act like a locker, but when both wheels have traction, it acts like a normal open diff.
as for which one you should get... how deep does your pocket go?
Cheers,
Eldar.O.
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Registered:
December 2004
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 08:43
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locked diffs are shit
they break easily and are illegal
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 08:48
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| EldarO wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 18:29 |
when one wheel breaks traction, an lsd will act like a locker
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Wrong. An LSD never behaves like a locker.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 09:35
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wtf is a viscous lsd then......ok...instead of mechanical lets say....positive drive...
ie...manual gearboxes are positive drive as one shaft drives another.....
auto gearboxes are not positive drive as the only thing transfering the force is the fluid being forced around the torque converter..
as far as i know thats how viscous lsd's work...silvia ones and so on..but on a smaller scale then a torque converter
saying that its a "mechanical" lsd all i was saying is that the force transfered is not "numbed" by a fluid...power loss is less therefore its more responsive
(btw im not really sure if its all correct just repeating what was drumed into my head at TAFE)
Adam
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 11:25
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Viscous couplings are used to transfer torque front-to-rear in AWD cars. I haven't heard of them being used in differentials as such; I have a feeling they wouldn't work very well.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Thu, 03 March 2005 13:05
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Your right about the viscous coupling in AWD cars Norbie. Its the reason why you can't run
smaller/larger rims on the fronts and rears of an AWD car. However, i think there are
Viscous type LSD's. I'm pretty sure the MX-5, for exampe, comes with one from the factory.
Bobski: the way viscous LSDs work is that when one wheel starts spinning faster than the
other, it heats up the "liquid" in the lsd housing which thickens up, thus making
the faster spinning wheel slow down. And Norbie's right, they're not very effective either.
Eddie.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: LSD information for sprinters
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Fri, 04 March 2005 01:56
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yeah that makes sense.....as i was saying i dont know how viscous lsd's work all i was saying is that they exist...and i know they are crap
open up a silvia k's diff one day and have a look....
Adam
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