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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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20V turbos... few Questions
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Tue, 01 March 2005 13:42
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Yes The Wiltz i have searched but couldnt find these answers.
Assuming i wanted to turbo a 20V silvertop engine that has microtech ECU on it. what do i do about the following.
I want to fit GZE pistons. Can i use the Silvertop rods and grudion pins or are the pins a different size. IF so will i need to use GZE rods as well?
What are the silvertop injectors good for and should i change them. if so to what??
where do i get oil feed and return on the block. where have other 4agte people put them?
the 20V has a 1.5mm thick headgasket stock. assuming i wanted to put GZE pistons in this would lower the comp/ratio a fair wack. i then could fit a 0.8mm metal headgasket. is this advisable?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Tue, 01 March 2005 13:59
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pics would be great.
what size are the 3sgte ones?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Tue, 01 March 2005 14:07
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They are 440's.
I dont have any pics of the oil feed, I can snap one tomorrow, I'm not sure if they sender is in the same spot on the 20v. I would guess so though.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Tue, 01 March 2005 14:13
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should be, all 4age blocks are essentially the same layout
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Tue, 01 March 2005 14:14
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I've been researching a similar thing but planning on turboing a bluetop. I seem to screwed cause it seems every generation of 4ag*e has the same 42mm crank and 20mm gudgeon pins for the pistons EXCEPT the bluetop. The bluetop's got a 40mm crank and 18mm gudgeons. This is all according to Bill Sherwood's website so the source is very reliable.
I've also read that 7M-GTE injectors are a straight fit but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on this. Either there are both top and side feed 7M-GTE injectors or someone is mistaken.
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=60733&start=0&rid=7123&S=a0d008ee0a4 cf21c38553e9571535c40
Eddie.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Tue, 01 March 2005 23:10
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well.. got some injectors line up
can anyone help with the rest?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 00:15
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cheers for that
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Location:
Sutherland Shire
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 00:27
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1jz injectors are straight fit
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 00:32
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say... theres a 1jz in the driveway atm 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 00:35
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just turbo it with the stock pistons, if you can tune it 1/2 decent (maybe strugling with a microleb) you wont be able to run as much boost but should be exciting!
if the stock pistons cark it get some forgies made up, useing a piston from a 4 valve per cyl engine in a 5 valve per cyl engine for turbo application is asking to issues due to valve releaf design etc etc
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 00:46
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yes but GZE pistons are dished anyway, since they are a non interferance motor theres never going to be any contacting of the valves either
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 00:52
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 11:46 |
yes but GZE pistons are dished anyway, since they are a non interferance motor theres never going to be any contacting of the valves either
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 11:35 |
piston from a 4 valve per cyl engine in a 5 valve per cyl engine for turbo application is asking to issues due to valve releaf design etc etc
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the reason thay are non-interferance is because of the fly cuts in the pistons, also with a piston designed for a different style of head you will have messed with the squish area and the shape of the combustion chamber at TDC this will be asking for knocking.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 02:27
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so, whats the solution?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 02:33
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use the stock pistons if thay can handle the task or get some custom slugs made
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 02:53
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 11:02 |
say... theres a 1jz in the driveway atm
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consider that 1JZ like your girlfriends missus...
if you touch it, you die 
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 03:29
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 13:03 |
use the stock pistons if thay can handle the task or get some custom slugs made
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and stick with the stock compression ratio? no i dont think so.
can someone please tell me why people have used gZe pistons in forced 20vs before with great success?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 03:43
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because they haven't let the timing belts break. when they do, the valves and pistons will be well and truly rooted.
you could always run maybe 2mm less valve lift, and then it will be non-interference again 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 04:09
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 14:29 |
| Allan wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 13:03 |
use the stock pistons if thay can handle the task or get some custom slugs made
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and stick with the stock compression ratio? no i dont think so.
can someone please tell me why people have used gZe pistons in forced 20vs before with great success?
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dude there are MANY ways to do it you can open up the chamber in the head, use dished valves or thicker gasket etc should not take much to get it down to 9:1
Allan
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 05:46
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however isnt changing the compression via thicker headgasket mucking about with squish area also??
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 05:52
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yes.
you need to have a look at both the combustion chamber AND the piston shape AND the clearance at TDC AND half more than half an idea before mucking about with squish areas....
or you could run a little less boost and tune a little more conservatively
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 05:57
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yeah, post some pics of the 20v head and piston and 16v head and piston
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 05:58
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| oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 16:52 |
you could run a little less boost and tune a little more conservatively
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preferable option
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 06:09
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well yes, but thats hardly going to last for ever isnt it.
say i were going to fit a larger headgasket, what thickness would be recommended?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 06:14
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 17:09 |
well yes, but thats hardly going to last for ever isnt it.
say i were going to fit a larger headgasket, what thickness would be recommended?
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If tuned correctly yes it will.
see the supplyer of the gasket for details on how much volume it adds
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 06:17
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wouldnt custom slugs be a similar price to new gze pistons from toyota anyways.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 07:55
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| 4agte wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 17:17 |
wouldnt custom slugs be a similar price to new gze pistons from toyota anyways.
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I got a quote for GZE pistons about a month ago. $380 which is damn cheap for NEW, forged ,ceramic coated pistons.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 11:18
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isnt this getting back to where i started?
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 11:23
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 11:35 |
just turbo it with the stock pistons, if you can tune it 1/2 decent (maybe strugling with a microleb)
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shows how much you really know isnt it....have you actually tuned a 20v turbo with a microtech on it? probably not.... i dare say there are bugger all people here who have...
i have done a few and they work a treat,
there are only 3 ecus that will run a 20v turbo whilst being tuned using TPS and map that is microtech, autronic and motec, the rest are either one or the other, not a combo of both which you need to get a 20v turbo to drive nice and do all that right stuff.
simon,
just turbo the stock engine, set boost to 8-10psi, put some 1jzgte injectors in it (20v are side feed but you can adopt a 16v top feed fuel rail pretty easy), switch cam timing on at 4000rpm and have some fun
hint run a smallish turbo, ie a t25 or td04l off a wrx,
another hint, be very consertive on the timing, even with rich mixtures these motors will rattle there brains with boost,
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Location:
qld
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 12:27
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Ive discussed this with Ant before, he said theyre basically all the same except black top, which have more of a honda style rod, and ofcourse big port which have a differant size wrist pin and big end size AND are more lightly built.
as far as pistons.. although the combustion chambers are differant, i dont see why i vastly lowered compression piston would come any close to the valves at tdc. anyway its been done plenty before, and when was the last time you snapped a timing belt? its seriously not relevant.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 14:06
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hmmm so some say do it and others say dont?!
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 21:41
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 01:06 |
hmmm so some say do it and others say dont?!
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do it, trust me with a good tune you wont have any problems at all!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 22:59
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 11:35 |
just turbo it with the stock pistons, if you can tune it 1/2 decent (maybe strugling with a microleb)
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| 10sec_rx7 wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 22:23 |
shows how much you really know isnt it....have you actually tuned a 20v turbo with a microtech on it? probably not.... i dare say there are bugger all people here who have...
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maybe you can but someone who is inexperanced and is afraid of the mid compression mid boost idea should probably avoid it
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Wed, 02 March 2005 23:19
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its not hard to make a phone call and organise someone to tune it is it??
i perfer high comp turbo motors, they have more grunt off boost and for a street car perform a lot better
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 00:50
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this thread addresses most of your questions.
http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=94447 &whichpage=1&ARCHIVE=
You can run 8.9 or 8.0:1 ze pistons on silvertop rods. Some flycut for the 5th valve, some don't... broken timing belt or miss shift will do u in.
"slow" runs a silvertop 20v turbo on stock blacktop ecu and greddy emanage piggyback
Another turbo'd his stock motor, but approach was not well thought out so pistons failed, but no reason why oe 20v slug wouldn't deliver loads of fun reliably with "good tuning". Even low boost, small turbo and bad tune transformed the car. The fun could have lasted
there is a group buy on a u.s. forum now for 20v turbo forged pistons, ~$350usd. see 3rd post on page2
got a cheap 20v or somethin' ? 16Vs can be sik
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:02
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the only thing with turboing a 20v with stock pistons is that i would assume you would need to tune it conservitavley incase you get a bad batch of fuel or the ambient it high/low etc.
Forgies would handle a bit of pinging. 20v pistons may not
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:23
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looks like i'll follow dales advice for now and run stock internals and low boost.
will start accumulating new parts in the mean time tho
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:28
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buy a good intercooler, one of those cheap hybrid jobs will be perfect for it, this will save the motor a lot!
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:38
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already got one
plus oil cooler will be fitted, along with 3 core rad etc.
its going to be used in my new drift car, so it will be seeing a hard time, lots of rev and the limiter. i want to keep boost levels pretty sane.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:40
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 13:38 |
it will be seeing a hard time, lots of rev and the limiter
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Don't you kill my baby... 
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:45
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simon, it will be fine!
ae86slut
is it your old car??????
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:49
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| 10sec_rx7 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 13:45 |
simon, it will be fine!
ae86slut
is it your old car??????
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Nah Dale, just the engine etc..... Still hasn't missed a beat since she rolled off the dyno! I'll be in contact with you about something soon btw.
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 02:52
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cool dude
a project hey!! sounds interesting!
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:00
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it will be interesting to see how long the engine lasts we will get to see how long a 20v turbo with simons right foot will last
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:01
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| 10sec_rx7 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 13:52 |
cool dude
a project hey!! sounds interesting!
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Yeah, sorta...... 
Simon, Dale (10sec_rx7) tuned the Microtech currently on the engine and has tuned heaps of other 20V's, N/A and F/I. He knows his shiznit.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:42
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well if only he was in adelaide i'd get him to tune it for me  but he isnt
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:43
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 14:42 |
well if only he was in adelaide i'd get him to tune it for me but he isnt
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Yeah well, you is teh ghey then.
Maybe you should fly Dale down on an all-expenses paid trip to tune it.
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:44
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ill be over there in around 3 months i think doing a few starlets.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:48
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*sniff sniff* i smell a road trip
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:51
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or
i could always finish the car, trailer it to sydney and take it drifting when they have a prac day at oran park next and see how it performs
or not
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 03:53
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 14:51 |
or
i could always finish the car, trailer it to sydney and take it drifting when they have a prac day at oran park next and see how it performs
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 04:02
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 14:56 |
dibs at crashing at yours
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Of course dude. Same invitation as Jessie gets goes for all of you Adelaide boys! I've got a spare room.
Do it mang.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 04:16
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If you think its all too much hasstle to turbo the 20v just turbo a 16v.
The 16v can make good power.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 06:13
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| fatmr2 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 15:16 |
If you think its all too much hasstle to turbo the 20v just turbo a 16v.
The 16v can make good power.
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just not quite 200 rwk huh fat 
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 06:35
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| 4agte wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 17:13 |
| fatmr2 wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 15:16 |
If you think its all too much hasstle to turbo the 20v just turbo a 16v.
The 16v can make good power.
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just not quite 200 rwk huh fat
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Dont speak too soon 4agte.....Ive made a few changes since last time. It might get to 200rwkw this time............maybe more 
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 12:15
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hmm interesting
what specs on yours?
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Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 23:29
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Conventional 16v injectors won't fit, 20v uses submergered side feed injectors, I am using Yanky 2JZGT injectors which slip straight in and are rated at 550cc, 13b turbo injectors will not fit! I am taking the oil feed from the pressure switch, oil pressure switches are always tee'd into main gallery oil, coolant is fed to the turbo from a custom outlet I used in my conversion to RWD, the manifold is an off the shelf HKS cast 16v, I have drilled and tapped the head to suit the outer two moles of the manifold being in a different spot, I am using a modified T28 roller from an s15(different comp wheel etc), I am still using the quad throttles but with a custom plenum, the outer is GTiR pulsar (very neat looking) and I made a custom billet aluminium adaptor to bolt this to the quads, the adaptor has all the radiuses etc and increases plenum volume, my intercooler consists of a PWR core and the core is 600x485x90(with out the end tanks) then I made up custom end tanks.
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Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 20V turbos... few Questions
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Thu, 03 March 2005 23:35
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P.S. this is all being run by an SM2 Autronic in TPS/MAP!!
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