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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 07:04
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Gday fellas,
I'm in a bit of an annoying situation. I bought my car with a locker, and as i'm running about on the street, its a little annoying, and actually ended up rattling a wheel off.
To get things started, what i have is a ke20 corolla with pretty much everything else celica, ie 2tg, 5spd, celica rear end and brakes, etc. The exception being a shortened ke30 corolla wagon tailshaft.
What i had in the car was a welded centre from what (i thought) was a celica. I was also supplied with a second centre (open) of unknown origin.
So, i swapped them over on the weekend. Axles mated up, bolted to the carrier housing no worries, etc. Put the oil in, brakes back on, blah blah. Last thing i left was the tailshaft. To my frustration, it did not match up.
The difference i found was that the bolt patten on my tailshaft was rectangular (ie different distances horizontally and vertically) whereas the replacement centre had a bolt pattern in a square. I will go out and measure these distances shortly. I have no idea if the uni on my tailshaft has been changed.
Now, i want to get myself an open centre like the welded one i took out. My problem is, what the hell is it out of?
I have some pics of both diffs, i will make a second post shortly with them in it. Anyone got some suggestions? I will call a wrecker thats been recommended to me tomorrow or friday, and see if they have any words of wisdom.
Thanks,
Bardin.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 07:10
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are the bolt holes offset, like a square?
and simply rotating the tailshaft to the correct orientation make them line up?
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 07:11
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| setsuna wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 18:10 |
are the bolt holes offset, like a square?
and simply rotating the tailshaft to the correct orientation make them line up?
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Tried rotating the tailshaft, either way you go only 2 bolts will line up.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 07:35
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I swear both are T-series. I think someone has put the wrong yoke on one of them.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 08:14
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I'm new to the toyota world, if you could give me a quick rundown of what the series (T, G etc) mean (and what they're out of) it would be appreciated 
Now to the measurements and markings on the locker (right one).
9X37 72 8 28 S609
Distance between bolt holes on the flange is 53mm and 41mm (not square). Wrong one on the car is 49mmx49mm.
Pics coming.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sutherland Shire
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 08:55
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Looks like an S series to me. want to sell your locked centre? where u located?
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Location:
Sutherland Shire
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 08:57
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How many bolts hold the diff onto the housing?? If its 8 its a S series, ten and its a T series
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 09:20
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well it may be an S BUT.... S and T series have a square bolt pattern on the axle of 55mm spacing, and this one is offset, id say its some sort of jap diff, oldcorolla might be able to shed some light.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 09:25
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Yeah, must be something weird. How big is the ring gear?
This one is 49mm square.
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 09:37
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I have a standard KE30 diff ( not borg warner ) that measures roughly 50mm x 50mm bolt spacing for the tailshaft yoke. This is an 8 bolt diff mount though.
I also have a TA22 diff that measures roughly 63mm x 50 mm bolt spacing for the tailshaft yoke.This is a 10 bolt diff mount.
These are VERY ROUGH measurements done with a tape measure so there could be a few mm of error but I hope it helps.
Brad
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 09:47
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I believe there are 2 KE30 driveshafts, the one you have which is a square bolt spaced flange of 55mm should be the borg warner type with a large diameter sleved shaft
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 10:59
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My measurements were done with a tape measure also, so they may be out a millimetre or two. I measured from edge of hole to edge of hole.
To clarify, both centres bolted up to the same housing, the one with the square pattern on the flange is on the car now, but the tailshaft is not attached for obvious reasons.
Tailshaft matches the 53x41 rectangular pattern.
Takai - i'm not sure i see which bit you believe to be thicker?
BradW - was that measured edge to edge or centre of hole to centre of hole? Thanks for that
The 55x55mm measurement i'm assuming is centre of hole measurement? As pictured, the diff is a 10 bolt mount, which afaik is a standard ta22 item (ignoring the suspension).
Now, to complicate things even further - could someone have switched the flange on the locked centre perhaps?
Its not something i've done before, but in terms of having a wide variety of diffs to choose from, am i better off changing the pattern on the tailshaft to match the new (square pattern) diff?
Thanks for all your help everyone, its greatly appreciated.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 11:23
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well, the 53x41 pattern sounds remarkably like stock KE20/30 jap diff pattern (U series?)
i imagine that the KE20 yoke was put on the bigger diff centre.
the round yoke, square pattern looks remarkably like the yoke from a Bog Warmer, but they are all rear loaders.
what you need to do is measure the diameter of the crwon gear. that is the only real way to tell what series it is.
i think the flanges have been swapped.
i will measure mine tomorrow (if i remember while i'm sober)..
in the meantime, measure the diameter of the crown gear and compare with Matti's site
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 11:30
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Thanks for that, keep in mind the measurements i gave weren't from the centres of the holes, so it would be a few mm bigger.
I'm new (sort of  ) to the toymods world, whats the address of Matti's site?
You think which diff centre has the foreign flange? The centre with the square pattern came straight from a wreckers, i wouldn't have expected anything crazy - the locked centre that was on the car, i think came from a member of a car club, or someone on here.
The question though, is should i be changing things with my diff, or with the tailshaft? Or trying to switch flanges?
Thanks.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 11:43
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for Matti's site i always google for "automotive main page mainly toyota"... seriously..
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off &q=automotive+main+page+mainly+toyota&meta =
the flanges seem small for an S or T series.. they do seem closer to U series (KE20 original).
i could have measured them for you today if i'd known..
keep in mind that all KE10 to KE70 have BOTH Banjo and Borg Warner diffs... and they are different.
it is possible that the wrecker diff had a bog warmer to begin with and swapped in a jap diff, and the flange was changed... but the bog warmer tailshafts are usuall an inch longer than the jap counterparts.
if the crown gears are the same diameter (you haven't reported this yet>) then i would be swapping flanges if possible. just make sure the pinion pre-load is ok.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 12:27
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Ooooh, the confusing details. 
Good to know for the 35 though.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 16 March 2005 12:45
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if the center locating hole is the right size just re-drill the flange or swap it over!
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Thu, 17 March 2005 07:47
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| Bananaman wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 21:59 |
BradW - was that measured edge to edge or centre of hole to centre of hole? Thanks for that
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I measured (or tried to measure  ) centre to centre.
Brad
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Fri, 18 March 2005 13:18
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Should fit up fine, report back with your findings 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Fri, 18 March 2005 16:37
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I've only quickly scanned both this thread and the photos, but I reckon you guys are all wrong - an Sa series centre only has an 8 bolt mounting, where as T and D series diffs have 10
My educated guess, based on the ratios you've mentioned is that you have one T series centre and D series centre. The T series has a 41x10 teeth count (giving a 4.10 ratio), while the D series centre has a 9x37 teeth count (giving a true 4.11 ratio).
So in short, go and get a D series diff centre out of a very early TA22 Celica - it will have the correct flange to bolt your tailshaft up too!
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Fri, 18 March 2005 22:06
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Gday mate,
Thanks for that - i may yet be closer to the solution..
Did a quick search for D series and came up with an interesting page.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/stepho/di ff.htm
It does indeed list the 37/9 as being an option in 70-75 celicas, but with an unknown series.
There's also a T series 37/9 option:
6.7" (T series) 4.111 37/9 MkII RT60,70
Corona RT80-???,80L-???,83-???,83L-???
Both are possible i suppose. D series is listed as coming in 69-73 coronas - does this bolt up to T series housing and axles though?
The 41/10 centre is listed for ta23/ra28, and a few others..
Jeesh, so many options. If only it had listings of the bolt pattern on the flange as well..
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Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Sat, 19 March 2005 01:56
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From my experince in diffs (braking a lot of them!) you should be able to change the flange from the old diff to the new one. ive had to do this on the side of the road before! Eg 6 and 8 cyl holdens have the same diff but different size flanges and can be simply swapped over. hope this helps.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Sat, 19 March 2005 02:55
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Well, i've come to conclusion the diff on the car needs a rattle gun to get it off, which i'll hopefully borrow tomorrow. The one *off* the car is off, so fingers crossed..
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Sat, 19 March 2005 10:12
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Hehe, good luck.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Sun, 20 March 2005 11:15
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No luck on with the rattle gun, would not budge. What a bastard.. I think i've probably dinged the diff in the process of doing this, seems to have more play than i remember. But oh well, beats buying a new one for the moment, funds will have to be saved for an lsd..
So, one of two options. Heat it up with an oxy, or bleed my brakes and get them working again, to stop the car from rolling when using a trolley jack on the T bar fitted to the nut. Sounds a funny idea, but it works well - the car is rolling with the way things are now however.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Sun, 20 March 2005 12:22
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did you unstake the pinion nut before trying to undo it?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Sun, 20 March 2005 14:18
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rattle gun normaly dosent do the trick on old diffs, i cut a bit of heavy angle iron with two holes bolt that to the flange and then use two long bars one on the angle and one on a breaker bar that normaly makes short work of it.
Allan
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Sun, 20 March 2005 22:20
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| oldcorollas wrote on Sun, 20 March 2005 23:22 |
did you unstake the pinion nut before trying to undo it?
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I'm guessing by that you mean did i do something about the keyed bit in the nut - in the one off the car, little was necessary and it just bent out. With the one that won't budge on the car, i got out the angle grinder and removed the keyed part of the nut, without damaging the thread at all.
Interesting idea with the piece of angle - in any case, i need to get my brakes working so the car doesn't move, the weight of it sitting on the ground isn't enough 
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Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Sun, 20 March 2005 22:28
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you will need some sort of breaker bar the longer the easier and the brakes will hold the car stil and lock the diff at the same time this should make things easier
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Mon, 21 March 2005 10:18
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Got it off with the oxy and the jack trick, haven't got my brakes happenning yet.
And.. Drumroll...
The flanges appear to be able to be swapped. Just got to get myself a new nut (auto one have them i hope?) and we're back in business.
I've come to the conclusion that given the relative ease in removing the flange from the locked centre, and the appearance of the nut, that it must have been changed at some time in its life. Which in turn leads me no closer to identifying what diff centres i'm actually working with, i guess i'll just have to hold on to this flange for eternity and it can be used on all future (T series) diffs
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Can someone identify my diff(s)?
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Wed, 23 March 2005 06:21
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This is RIDICULOUS. I don't know if vendor verdicts are cool here (will remove if they're not) but windsor toyota parts are hopeless. They didn't seem to know what a T series diff was, seemed unwilling to go out of their way at all to help me, and sold me a nut threaded the WRONG WAY (wandered out the back and found something the same size). I of course didn't realise this until i got home, now the shops are closed, and i'm back at work tomorrow with no car again.
Frustrating. Does anyone know the part number for the nut that holds on the tailshaft flange on a T series diff? Threaded clockwise, i think it might have been 18mm thread diameter?
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