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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 01:24
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I have always thourght of ABS braking as a little like an Automatic Gearbox, for those people who can't drive (unless the auto is there for a reason) in a heavy braking situation I have found that I can stop a car just as well with or without ABS to the point that on a few occations in the Ute I have tripped the ABS only to lift off the brake and brake as normal.
I have however noticed that new car flyers tend to advertise ABS as an emergency assistance rather than a stopping assistance an never really thourght about it that way..... Until last nights little incident.
Pissing down rain, M4 motorway 6.45pm I change lanes from the centre lane of 3 to the left lane when my right rear tyre blows out sending the rear out to the right, over correction the rear goes to the left and sends me back across 3 lanes with the rear going back out to the right and comming around to visit the front wheels, just before going into the 360 degree spin'o'fun the rear wheels left the road and came back on as I was in the spin facing the other way, as the front came back around to face the correct direction the ABS kicked in giving me some semblance of grip to slow the spin and straighten the spin just short of putting the drivers door into the start of an armco barrier. there was a little more spinning/fishtailing before comming to a complete halt in the centre of the motorway facing oncomming headlights.
Now I don't claim to be a good driver in terms of being able to get myself out of sticky situations at all but in most situations I can control a car. This case however the only thing that stopped an armco barrier replacing the drivers seat was the ABS giving me just enough control to get the car to spin away from the barrier. I'm also very lucky there were no other cars within braking distance to hit/bounce off. Only damage, the blown tyre that rim and possibly a buckle in the left rear rim.
ABS is good...
Now does anyone know how to clean poo poo off of leather seats??
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 01:41
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 Go buy a lottery ticket you are very LUCKY  .
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 01:45
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We had a "drive day" of sorts at work that included several exercises that proved what ABS can do.
It certainly openeed my eyes as to how it can perform on a crappily tyres Commo Exec, let alone a good car with good dynamics and tyres.
More than a good thing. An absolute must !!!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 01:48
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I have done the manual abs a few times and it saved me lol, what car were you in when this happened?.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 01:54
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2003 Holden SS Ute. I am looking for another car to replace it with a modded Celica or Supra. The Supra with ABS now look alot better.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 02:00
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when i did my advanced driver training course i was sold on abs honest for very average drivers its a must, i wasn't too bad, but any of the VS commo drivers as soon as it went wet locked up massively i only locked up once and that was when i was doing a swerve manuovre at higher speed than reccommended as the instructor wanted to see how i would go, but yeah looking at cars with abs simple put foot down and car pulls up straight in the same distance pretty much every time, vs the commo drivers having up to 5m variance from a speed of 60km/ph every stop.
The corona wasn't too bad albeit its brakes didn't pull it up to well but once i improved i stopped it around the same mark repetively. Put it this way though my next car is gonna have abs i hop anyway.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 02:43
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On the flipside, crash investigators said that the abs was most likely at fault for my mates dad's accident which left him in palative care for 6 months and intensive for another 6. Unfortunately I don't think I can speak about the accident as it's still going through the courts etc (8 years after the incident) but if it ever does end, I'll tell the story.
But I will say that I'll never have functioning ABS on any of my cars. When sh!t hits the fan, I want to be entirely in control.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:46
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ABS has both pros and cons...I prefer to turn it off myself, but I haven't driven any later model ABS systems - they might be more flexible and better tuned but the ABS on my ST165 sucked ass.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:53
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that was something i also witnessed at the ADT course, there was an R32 GTR there and although for its time a great car its abs by today's standards sucks balls, it was still locking up in the dry quite bad, but suprisingly was one of the better systems in the wet and stopped better in the wet than the dry.
the new commo that were there were good although they didn't pull up that fast need more brakes, RS impreza was bloody good same with 318ti, SC430 brilliant as well.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:55
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Oh and an early Xr8 ed i think that had abs didn't work at all much to the surprise of the driver on the first stop when he mashed the pedal to see massive amounts of smoke coming off his front tyres, fuses were checked and fine so it seems his system had shat itself.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:55
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Thats another good point as my first contact with ABS was in Dads Range Rover that was one of the first road cars to have it fitted and in certain conditions the tyres would bounce on the road as the brakes "pulsated" thus my distrust in it however the modern varient seems alot better and faster at reacting (and pulsating) still really don't like the feel of the pedal going flat to the floor however.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 04:00
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the reason for that is early system could only make around 8 calcualtions on the modulation of brake pressure per second newer system see 30 plus per second which means less locking and also that optimum braking pressure ie that just before locking is applied hence resulting in shorter stops, whilst still allowing you to steer the car out of the way of unwanted obstacles
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Location:
sydney,nsw.oz.
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 04:30
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 12:45 |
More than a good thing. An absolute must !!!
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Here here !
My ZZE122 Rolla has it.
My ST162 didn't have it. It was very easy to lock up the front brakes, especially when going downhill. Had a few near misses without ABS.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 04:33
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my car really doesn't lock up that much at all, it's pretty well behaved unless you really stomp on it, another tendancy noticed was for all the small hatches when under heavy braking they lift the arse and lock the rears, once again my car didn't do this.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 04:37
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| davedave wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 13:13 |
On the flipside, crash investigators said that the abs was most likely at fault for my mates dad's accident which left him in palative care for 6 months and intensive for another 6. Unfortunately I don't think I can speak about the accident as it's still going through the courts etc (8 years after the incident) but if it ever does end, I'll tell the story.
But I will say that I'll never have functioning ABS on any of my cars. When sh!t hits the fan, I want to be entirely in control.
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Doesn't sound good, but I'd say that ABS (particularly the current stuff) will save you many more times than it will do harm.
Same goes for vaccinations, 99% good, but 1% horrendous. In the end it is your choice. Hope all goes well.
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Location:
Bayside Melbourne.
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 04:37
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ABS reacts to how hard you mash the pedal as well as using road and wheel speed. ie: the closer you are to having the optimum brake pedal pressure the better the ABS will perform.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 06:40
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| ae86drift wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 16:38 |
abs is for 'panicy' drivers who mash on the brake in any "oh shit" situation.
ive had many emergency situations in my ae86 and even with stock brake setup my right foot seems to do pretty well in bringing the car to a stop, wet or dry...
im sure abs is good, but a sensitive right foot will always prevail.
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thing is you can never be sure of road conditions and abs only kicks in when it sense's difference in wheel speed ie once your wheels are starting to lock, not only that why risk flat spoting your tires?
hey bbaacchhyy is the commohore ABS a seperate unit ie transferable to another car? and i hear theres a couple of issues with engine testing there
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Location:
NSW Engadine
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 07:43
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When I took out my dads CV8 monaro for a burn on my L's when he wasn't home... I felt the ABS a few times
I was only checking to see if it worked... 
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 09:11
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| 79rollaboy wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 18:43 |
When I took out my dads CV8 monaro for a burn on my L's when he wasn't home... I felt the ABS a few times
I was only checking to see if it worked...
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Try checking ABS on a bus, that's fun  . The front of the bus dives down and it feels like you're going to fly over the steering wheel . It's great fun.
Brad
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 09:51
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you want to be really freaked out the new trucks have traction control and everytime my brother go's over a bridge expansion joint up hill in a b-double on the fwy it lights up *SLIP* AWESOME power in these new trucks to bag the wheels up at 110 with 90+ ton on!
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Location:
NSW Engadine
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 09:56
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 20:51 |
you want to be really freaked out the new trucks have traction control and everytime my brother go's over a bridge expansion joint up hill in a b-double on the fwy it lights up *SLIP* AWESOME power in these new trucks to bag the wheels up at 110 with 90+ ton on!
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What about the traction control?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 11:15
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| 79rollaboy wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 20:56 |
| Allan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 20:51 |
you want to be really freaked out the new trucks have traction control and everytime my brother go's over a bridge expansion joint up hill in a b-double on the fwy it lights up *SLIP* AWESOME power in these new trucks to bag the wheels up at 110 with 90+ ton on!
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What about the traction control?
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Traction control is works similarly to ABS... the wheels actually start to lose traction and the TRC senses this and backs off the throttle a bit.
ABS is definately worth having... it will stop you from sliding under pretty much any condition be it bald tyres, slippery roads or just extremely heavy braking.
Contrary to popular belief ABS does not decrease your stopping distance... it is merely a safegaurd which engages when you brake harder than the tyres can grip on the road.
I do find it annoying sometimes though... sometimes it kicks in when you hit a small rut in the road under brakes and you feel like you are breaking something.
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 11:35
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i nearly spun my car today when it was raining near the cbd...scary shit.
Was doing about 50, coming into the turn i shift to 2nd whilst on the brakes (pressing lightly) and they just lock up or something and the car starts sliding...scared the living shit out of me 
Thats when you need ABS and traction control...not in an ae82 tho
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 12:41
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I am a dumbone on technology cause I am poor and usually never get to try it.
So basically ABS just adjusts/backs off braking compared to the amount of pedal used if it is sensed as "too much".
How did it work in Lambolica's spinning situation then?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 16:02
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| no_tofu_speed wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 23:41 |
I am a dumbone on technology cause I am poor and usually never get to try it.
So basically ABS just adjusts/backs off braking compared to the amount of pedal used if it is sensed as "too much".
How did it work in Lambolica's spinning situation then?
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Sort of... ABS only backs off the wheel which is slipping.
It actually pulses a solenoid on and off in the same way an electronic boost controller bleeds boost pressure.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 16:05
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In lambolica's situation the wheel with the blown tyre would have normally just locked up as it would have had no grip... the ABS would have stopped that wheel from going into a full lockup and concentrated braking on the other 3 wheels.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 20:18
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Like Toobs said, But on top of that I was spinning and aquaplaning which is fun to get out of at the best of times. Sliding sideways (drifting if you like) the car is moving sideways and the wheels not actually turning. As the car came around forward the wheels start to move into a position where the wheels can turn with the direction of the car so for that brief time the ABS can kick in and got the locked up wheels turning and breaking the aquaplane enought to give me 1/2 a chance of controlling my direction.
In short in an emergency straight line braking without ABS, you stab at the brake the fronts (at least) lock up and slide, if you turn the wheel to avoid trouble you will keep going straight forward. With ABS the sensors on the wheels detect that there has been a lock up and pulsates the brakes near the optimum braking level for any wheels that have locked (like punching the brake very quickly (30 times per second as stated above) if you turn the wheel under ABS activication to avoid an accident the wheels will still be turning, have grip and the car will turn.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 22:29
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| ae86drift wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 16:08 |
abs is for 'panicy' drivers who mash on the brake in any "oh shit" situation.
ive had many emergency situations in my ae86 and even with stock brake setup my right foot seems to do pretty well in bringing the car to a stop, wet or dry...
im sure abs is good, but a sensitive right foot will always prevail.
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Wrong.
Do an actual test when you try and turn and brake at the same time and you'll see how wrong you are. The only people that may be close to ABS are top level drivers. And even they use ABS in their cars when the class allows it !!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 22:31
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 17:10 |
hey bbaacchhyy is the commohore ABS a seperate unit ie transferable to another car? and i hear theres a couple of issues with engine testing there
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You'll have to explain what you mean by separate, but the answer is no as it is integrated in the wiring loom and uses different BCMS etc.
Issues with engine testing ? Please explain !!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 22:44
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| dimmy77_03 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 22:35 |
i nearly spun my car today when it was raining near the cbd...scary shit.
Was doing about 50, coming into the turn i shift to 2nd whilst on the brakes (pressing lightly) and they just lock up or something and the car starts sliding...scared the living shit out of me
Thats when you need ABS and traction control...not in an ae82 tho
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ABS can't help you beyond a certain point when you get shift-lock, as the engine has enough braking power to easily break traction in the wet, even when you aren't on the stoppers. Pretty handy to know when you wanna get turn-in oversteer in a car equipped with overly sensitive ABS ! !
To Me, the usefulness of ABS is entirely dependant on the nuff-nuffs who design and calibrate the system: Some cars I've driven are set to permanently run stability control under brakes - even when you've turned it off ! ! ! - Uber-frustrating.  At the other end of the spectrum there's the Lotus Elise and Porsche 911 GT3 ABS systems, both of which stay well out of the way until a wheel is trully locking, and drag the wheel without smoking it. GOLD!
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Wed, 23 March 2005 23:55
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 24 March 2005 09:29 |
| ae86drift wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 16:08 |
abs is for 'panicy' drivers who mash on the brake in any "oh shit" situation.
ive had many emergency situations in my ae86 and even with stock brake setup my right foot seems to do pretty well in bringing the car to a stop, wet or dry...
im sure abs is good, but a sensitive right foot will always prevail.
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Wrong.
Do an actual test when you try and turn and brake at the same time and you'll see how wrong you are. The only people that may be close to ABS are top level drivers. And even they use ABS in their cars when the class allows it !!
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At the advanced driver training course they set up a wet circuit in which we had to brake and swerve (turn)at the same around a theoretical bus, i was able to do this without locking up, i locked up once when doing 70 then hitting the brakes which saw me clip the back of the bus slightly.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Thu, 24 March 2005 01:30
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Well I have a sprinter, fat chance for me to get ABS on it I think...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Thu, 24 March 2005 03:07
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| no_tofu_speed wrote on Thu, 24 March 2005 12:30 |
Well I have a sprinter, fat chance for me to get ABS on it I think...
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You can Retro-fit ABS to just about anything! ! !
If you want the calibration to be anywhere near useful, you'd better know an absolute gun programmer though . . . .
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Thu, 24 March 2005 03:09
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According to Open Road (NRMA) (i think, could have been another mag) a few issues back:
ABS will allow you to maintain control of the steering, which is a good plus.
This control is the cause of most 'ABS' related incidents. A driver see something jump out, jumps on the brakes to stop, and turns hard to miss it. In a non ABS car the hard turn would result in a slight change of direction, as happens when you have no traction. in a car with ABS a hard turn on the steering wheel means a hard turn for the car. Suddenly a car the driver expects to turn slightly is facing tree/ditch/oncoming traffic etc.
Is this the fault of ABS or the driver who doesn't understand it?
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Thu, 24 March 2005 03:38
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| Squid wrote on Thu, 24 March 2005 14:09 |
According to Open Road (NRMA) (i think, could have been another mag) a few issues back:
ABS will allow you to maintain control of the steering, which is a good plus.
This control is the cause of most 'ABS' related incidents. A driver see something jump out, jumps on the brakes to stop, and turns hard to miss it. In a non ABS car the hard turn would result in a slight change of direction, as happens when you have no traction. in a car with ABS a hard turn on the steering wheel means a hard turn for the car. Suddenly a car the driver expects to turn slightly is facing tree/ditch/oncoming traffic etc.
Is this the fault of ABS or the driver who doesn't understand it?
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of course abs allows you to maintain steering if it didn't it wouldn't be working, ie the wheels would be locked.
But on the same part a car with non-abs and a driver that realises when the wheels are going/locking up will maintain steering as well.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: New found respect for ABS
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Thu, 24 March 2005 05:15
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| Lambolica wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 21:18 |
Like Toobs said, But on top of that I was spinning and aquaplaning which is fun to get out of at the best of times. Sliding sideways (drifting if you like) the car is moving sideways and the wheels not actually turning.
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Aquaplaning is when its been raining after a dry/hot period theres a film of oil/other crap between your wheels and the road, and your tyres aren't actually making contact with the road. Just clearing that up for ne 1. or wateva u no.
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