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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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Control arm lengths??
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Sun, 17 April 2005 12:48
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I am looking for some different control arms for my ta22 i have been told that sigma's are 330mm from mounting point to ball joint, and mine are 300mm.
Anyone know the lenghts of other control arms, i want something around 310-315mm
Jason
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Sun, 17 April 2005 14:19
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The best way is to take the arms off, cut them in two, and weld up again with a extra section cut from some spare arms. TRD sold arms just like this, cut and welded.I have done this a few times also.
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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Sun, 17 April 2005 22:51
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cut and weld is elegal though, and september, i have been told to get a little camber then fiddle with the stuff you guys told me.
i need to learn more about handling and suspension, cannot find anything on the net wonder if the library would have any books on it.
Jason
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Sun, 17 April 2005 23:43
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fred phun - how to make your car handle .. thats a good book.
if you are worried about cutting control arms etc and the sigma ones are too long..
then i think the best solution is some adjustable camber tops and a coilover conversion so there is room to move the top of the strut around.
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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Mon, 18 April 2005 00:17
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Yeah i've heard good stuff about those. I've used technotoytunings RCA's and they were well made.
Just make sure they fit your celica (ae86 DO NOT fit celicas).
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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Mon, 18 April 2005 04:13
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ae86 strut tops dont fit the celica or control arms??
Jason
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Mon, 18 April 2005 04:47
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ae86 strut tops dont fit the celica.
haven't tried ae86 control arms on a celica (no need to, same length).
ae86 roll centre adjusters fit celicas though, so the steering knuckle bolt spacing is the same.
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Mon, 18 April 2005 08:47
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| Jonny2TG wrote on Mon, 18 April 2005 00:19 |
The best way is to take the arms off, cut them in two, and weld up again with a extra section cut from some spare arms. TRD sold arms just like this, cut and welded.I have done this a few times also.
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Why make 2 welds when you can make only 1? Half off one control arm added to a little over half of another control arm. Box entire arm for added safety and BINGO - an illegal modification.
You will however find similar mods on all sorts of race cars and they won't break if done correctly.
There are adjustable lower arms available (they use a threaded section and lock nut arrangement) I am sorry but I don't remember where to get them from.
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On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Mon, 18 April 2005 09:06
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so hold on, the front of your car is adjusted up so it's stiff as bill clinton and you think that adding more camber and track will make it handle better?
no
like september and i said in THIS THREAD, drop your max-setting koni dampers down a few notches, and get rid of that 173% stiffer front swaybar. suddenly your car will turn and there will be no need for any of this
you don't race (that you've told us) and you have no overall direction for tuning your suspension other than to "make the car nicer to drive", which we've already told you how to obtain. perhaps you just want negative camber because it sounds cool
you'll excuse my tone, but it's frustrating when you spend a week troubleshooting someone's car problems, which they asked for help with in the first place, then they turn around and flat out ignore you
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On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Mon, 18 April 2005 09:12
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you could put 6 degrees negative camber on your car, and more track than a cadillac, but because the swaybar and the shocks are stopping the suspension from transferring weight to the inside wheel properly, YOUR CAR WILL STILL TURN LIKE CRAP
i wouldn't suggest purchasing fred puhn's book unless you have completed a geometry pHd, you'll get to the second chapter and the words just turn to mush
the basic idea is that your chassis should be as stiff as possible, without causing the car to lose its ability to put power to the ground, and the suspension should be as soft as possible, without reducing the ability of the car to put power to the ground
not cover up two bad suspension mistakes with another modification which won't achieve what you want anyway
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Location:
timaru NZ
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Tue, 19 April 2005 07:40
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once you have an understanding as the why you want more negative camber, try some TT132 LCA's . halfway between a AE86 and TA63.
they set my front end to about 1.5 degrees - camber, depending on ride height.
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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Tue, 19 April 2005 08:52
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Super jamie sorry to be frustrating to you i am not planning to put camber on the front of the car to try rearect the problems i already have, i have been getting info from many places, and someone said get a little camber on the front and fix these current problems aswell.
Last night i spent a fair amount of time talking to sept sqaul and he patiently explained quite a few things, i now very understand what you guys are going on about.
i am not goign to chase camber down now as i was ill correct these current problems (to much stiffness up front) then drive it and try diagnose what is wrong from there,
Thanks for your help.
Jason
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On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 03:10
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what do you actually do with your car? i found myself in a similar position a while ago, where i wanted to improve the handling of my car but had no idea what to start doing. driving on the street wasn't very taxing on the suspension. i could do lots of things, some more helpful in certain situations than others. basically, i needed some direction
i suggest you do what i did: get into some amateur motorsport events like motorkhana or hillclimbs or saturday sprints, whatever's close to you and affordable. talk to people there, look at what other people with similar setups are doing, and hopefully you'll get an idea of what you want your car to drive like, then you can start changing camber or adding huge swaybars or dialing in your konis for better oversteer/understeer characteristics, etc etc
even if your car is only half setup the way you'd like it (ideally, i'd change my front springs and front shocks and add some camber and blah blah blah) it's still a challenge to improve your times and your own driving with one constant setup. having a good racecar isn't just about setup, far far from it
anyway, good to hear things are improving on the car front. keep us posted as to how it drives when you get the shocks dialled down and a more suitable swaybar on there 
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 05:28
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Mon, 18 April 2005 14:47 |
ae86 strut tops dont fit the celica.
haven't tried ae86 control arms on a celica (no need to, same length).
ae86 roll centre adjusters fit celicas though, so the steering knuckle bolt spacing is the same.
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just to point out..RA40/RA60 arms are about 4-5mm longer than AE86 ones..give about 1-1.5 deg of neg chamber.. on a stock AE86
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 06:05
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4 - 5mm longer gives over 1 deg neg camber? from my experiences you need over 10mm to get 1 deg change.
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On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 06:49
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ra28's right. 5mm would give you around half a degree with stock struts, more if you lower the car. you can work it out exactly for your car with tan^-1(o/a), adjacent being the length of the strut, opposite being the amount of track you're adding at the stub axle
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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 07:08
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Well someone has reversed into me and the car just went into the panel shop today. 
What i am aiming to do with the car is exactly what you said there is a local hill climb once a year and join the local club and they have a couple track days a year, also go to a couple motor kahna's down at willow bank. Cams liscense first
Hey about the swaybar, isnt there a good chance that the stock one will be two soft, and as sept and you have said you may be constantly changing the swaybar to get different things with different setups, wouldnt it be wise to go straight for an adjustable bar. are there any down falls on the adjustable's, i have not seen how they adjust.
also with those ra40 arms does anyone know if i put them in my car(ta22) will the swaybar and radius rod holes still line up??
Jason
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 07:15
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I've got a 24mm adjustable bar on my RA28. Easy to adjust and seems to have improved handling. I haven't played around with the settings too much yet but when have time will do.
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On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 07:43
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perhaps the original swaybar will be too soft, it really depends what you're doing. on a small technical hillclimb track where you're probably lucky to even hit 3rd gear, i wouldn't think about upgrading the front swaybar. if you don't like the original bar, you can always put your big one back on
adjustables i don't know about either. if you're just doing basic racing, try and keep your setup as simple as possible, just set it up right and work on improving your driving, there's no use having anything adjustable set different ways unless you have ALOT of track time to tune it in
i still think longer control arms are a bad idea, more track makes the back unbalanced with the front, and gives you a nice defect possibility as well. i'd get those struts bent
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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 07:50
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One guy from a suspension shop said there probly wouldnt be enought room on my struts for them to be bent, can always get a second apinoun i guess.
Jason
anyone know about the holes and the ra40 arms.
thanks
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On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 07:57
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interesting, i was under the impression you could bend the base of any strut?
still, i'd prefer even flat camber on both sides (which you have) to negative with wider track and yucky bump steer
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 09:39
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Just thought you guys might find this pic interesting.
RA40 lower control arm (on top) compared to KE30 lower control arm.
Just another option for those thinking about longer lca's.
Brad
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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 09:50
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arnt they the same length?
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Wed, 20 April 2005 14:45
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The bottom one in the pic is longer. Look closely. We're not talking inches and inches here.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Thu, 21 April 2005 07:22
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Ok, so can we make a list of LCA lengths for future reference?
TA22 - 300mm
RA23/28 - 310mm
RA40/60 -
AE86 -
KE30 -
TT132 -
Sigma - 330mm
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Thu, 21 April 2005 07:24
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Are RA28 310? I always thought they were 300.. hmm..
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Thu, 21 April 2005 08:50
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| M.W.P. wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 17:22 |
Ok, so can we make a list of LCA lengths for future reference?
TA22 - 300mm
RA23/28 - 310mm
RA40/60 -
AE86 -
KE30 -
TT132 -
Sigma - 330mm
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Are you measuring the complete length of the lca or from mounting hole centre to ball joint mount centre.
As for the pic I posted, I am pretty sure they are both the same length but I will measure them both and let you all know.
Brad
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Thu, 21 April 2005 11:15
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| BradW wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 18:20 |
Are you measuring the complete length of the lca or from mounting hole centre to ball joint mount centre.
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from mounting hole centre to ball joint mount centre
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Control arm lengths??
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Thu, 21 April 2005 11:17
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:54 |
Are RA28 310? I always thought they were 300.. hmm..
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Pretty sure its 310, i did double check my measurement.
I did it with the arms on the car tho.
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