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Azrael
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Crapberra
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September 2003
freak of nature 1GGZE Tue, 19 April 2005 12:38 Go to next message
Ok, while wiring up the 1GGZE with a standard computer I've run across something very strange. When you turn the ignition off the motor keeps running (wait for it that's not the weird part). But what I have also found it that with the key in the ignition and the engine running; if I disconnect the negative terminal on the battery the engine keeps running!! Now correct me if I'm wrong but don't you need a circuit to make electricity flow?

Anybody got any ideas why this is happening. I've tried disconnecting the alternator but is still happens...

Cheers
Az
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setsuna
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Tue, 19 April 2005 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yes.. I would have said alternator.
any car you can disconnect the battery while it is running and the alternator provedes the charge to keep it running...

but if you say you have disconnected it... ?!?
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ra23celica
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Tue, 19 April 2005 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Your fuel pump is still supplying petrol after you disconnect the battery ?
You are still getting the injectors opening as well ?
And the coil packs are still providing spark ?
You have got some major earthing problem somewhere ....
Let me guess, battery is relocated to the boot ?
Have you put an ammeter across the negative post and the (disconnected) battery clamp to see if you have a parasitic drain ? Then take out each fuse one by one to isolate this drain ?
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81LOWLUX
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Wed, 20 April 2005 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
any vehicle with a good alternator will keep the car running with the battery out, it is only needed to start it.
when i need to jumpstart i swap batterys whil still running.
this is a good way to test your alt if it stalls then its bin time.

when you turn the key off, then there is a problem Sad go to a auto elecy
hope this helps
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CrUZsida
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Wed, 20 April 2005 01:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Disconnecting a battery while a car is running is a good way to fry an ecu.

The battery helps even out a voltage spike if one occurs, without the battery there, everything will get the spike (in the unlikely event of one)

Anyhoo, running motor can be caused by bad wiring on your behalf (I presume its a swap?)
Or the EFI relay is sticking on.
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mrshin
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Wed, 20 April 2005 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Someone connected the EFI system to the fuel pump relay?

And if you're sure you disconnected the alternator fully, maybe you have one of those fulsik sound system caps holding a bit of charge and keeping things going?
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EldarO
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Wed, 20 April 2005 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 20 April 2005 09:51

Disconnecting a battery while a car is running is a good way to fry an ecu.

The battery helps even out a voltage spike if one occurs, without the battery there, everything will get the spike (in the unlikely event of one)

Anyhoo, running motor can be caused by bad wiring on your behalf (I presume its a swap?)
Or the EFI relay is sticking on.


muaahahha, i do this, go carby Razz

i start my celica with teh van battery, usually while the van is running i take it off, nothing ever makes a difference though...

Eldar.O.
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Siktoy ra23
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I had the same problem when i wired my car up you will find that your thermo fan will be creating enough current to keep your engine running if you put a relay on it it will fix your problem

Ben
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Bugman
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 03:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thermo fan acting like a generator?
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CrUZsida
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 03:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Siktoy ra23 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 11:20

I had the same problem when i wired my car up you will find that your thermo fan will be creating enough current to keep your engine running if you put a relay on it it will fix your problem

That honestly has to be one of the silliest things I've heard.
Its not possible.
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Bugman
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 04:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
never say something not possible.

weird things happen.
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CrUZsida
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bugman wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 12:02

never say something not possible.

weird things happen.


Whats turning the thermo fan? Love?


Unless he is talking about when he was driving it, in which case how was the battery disconnected while driving?
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ra23celica
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 13:59

That honestly has to be one of the silliest things I've heard.
Its not possible.



I'm with CrUZsida, I was gob-smacked when I read this one....
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Bugman
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 04:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I was too.. but then I started thinking like an idiot.....

It's possible with a dc motor to create voltage. but really soo many variables on how you have wired the car..
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CrUZsida
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bugman wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 12:06

It's possible with a dc motor to create voltage. but really soo many variables on how you have wired the car..

Only when it turns.
But if the car is idling in the driveway (like I assumed it was) when he disconnected the battery, then the fan would not be turning.

But then I got to thinking what if he was talking about when he was driving it...

With a small motor (one coil, 4 injectors), no electrical load (ie, radio, headlights etc) it may well be possible if the fan was turning enough.
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Bugman
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
he's talking about a 'freaky' situation, get over it.
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Bugman
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
and we dont know enough about how the rest of the loom was wired up.
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sideshow
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the thermo fan spinnin can create enough current to keep the efi or ecu relay triggered

usually people wire up the ign sig to efi rtelay and use the same wire to turn on thermo fan relay

the fan spinning can create enough power like .2 amps to keep the relays triggered

it does not have enough power to run the efi
its just workin on the trigger/coil side of the relay

sometimes the alternator light will cause this shit to happen too

try fitting a resistor i think about 560 ohm across the 2 terminals on the alternator light
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EldarO
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
do you have a mechanical fuel pump carby engine? apart from the fuel pump, i dont see a need for electricity when this situation is not present...

only thing that would need electricity would be the lights and stuff...

Eldar.O.

[Updated on: Thu, 21 April 2005 09:45]

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CrUZsida
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EldarO wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 17:44

do you have a mechanical fuel pump carby engine? apart from the fuel pump, i dont see a need for electricity when this situation is not present...

only thing that would need electricity would be the lights and stuff...

Eldar.O.

How about the coil?
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Siktoy ra23
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sideshow wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 18:17

the thermo fan spinnin can create enough current to keep the efi or ecu relay triggered





Thank you sideshow

It didnt keep it running for more than about 1 min but it did keep running Twisted Evil

BEN
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Azrael
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Re: freak of nature 1GGZE Thu, 21 April 2005 12:11 Go to previous message
Wow, I leave toymods for a few days and you ppls have been busy...

Ok, the engine was not wired up by me so I can only speculate that the relays are correct, hell the cars not even mine. It can't possibly be the thermo fan as the car has no radiator or fan Very Happy (before you ask, its not running on the road as yet). The alternator has not been connected up properly yet, but we did try disconnecting all the wire that were attached to it just to be sure.

More info:
The battery has been moved to the boot and is a sealed battery.

The fuel pump does not continue to run after the negative terminal is disconnected; we have not run it for too long so I can only speculate that the engine will starve of fuel.

Have not checked the coil packs or injectors, as I'm not keen to pull those things out while it's running. I will crank it and try and feel/hear if they are still chattering away.

I'll try and see if there is a drain anywhere and get back to you.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice

Az

ps. does anyone have a pin diagram/designation for the 1GGZE computer, I've opened it up and the CPU is not labeled grrrr.
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