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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sun, 17 April 2005 22:18
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I currently have the JDM 16v4AGE in my car and I think that it is on its last legs and I am either thinking about rebuilding the 4AGE or putting the 20V in??? 
Cheers
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sun, 17 April 2005 22:22
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rebuild what you have, for the cost of a conversion you could rebuild what you have, better than fitting another hand engine.
do some mods at the same time.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Mon, 18 April 2005 09:29
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agreed, rebuild it with a few mods (cams for example) then make sure you run it in properly
if you are on a budget just get a low Ks bigport long motor (if you can find one) and swap it over.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Tue, 19 April 2005 03:23
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third that one rebuild, I have done 20v and if i could do it again i would make my old 4age a carb option (only for the exhaust note)..... but a rebuild will do you alot better as then you know what u r getting and doing
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Tue, 19 April 2005 03:40
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Rebuild - you will not regret it (if done right!)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Tue, 19 April 2005 12:47
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Rebuild for sure, should cost anywhere between $800-$1500 depending on parts and how much you do yourself. You should think about uprgrading your computer too, if you plan on fitting different cams etc..
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Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Wed, 20 April 2005 03:52
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Rebuild the 4age, at least you know what your getting. With the 20V conversion you stil have a unknown which is the Engine, how many Kms etc of the secondhand 20V you bought, not really worth the risk for the small performance gain, use the extra dosh for performance parts for the 4age..
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Location:
Eastern Suburbs, Sydney
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Wed, 20 April 2005 10:03
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You dont actually need a long time to run a motor in properly. If you are running a good oil in it, eg: Redline, Motul, Repsol. All you should need is about 30 mins @ idle for the cams to bed in. Then go nuts.
I have never had a prob this way.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Wed, 20 April 2005 14:52
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Idling is the worst thing you can do to a fresh engine from the start.... i suggest you do some more research before spouting such claims.
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Wed, 20 April 2005 14:59
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Wed, 20 April 2005 22:52 |
Idling is the worst thing you can do to a fresh engine from the start.... i suggest you do some more research before spouting such claims.
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this has been covered before...
simon speaks the truth,
seek, and you shall find 
rebuilt 4AGES rock my world!
Eldar.O.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Thu, 21 April 2005 00:15
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a worked 4age will run the pants around a 20v
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Location:
Eastern Suburbs, Sydney
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Thu, 21 April 2005 10:58
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 00:52 |
Idling is the worst thing you can do to a fresh engine from the start.... i suggest you do some more research before spouting such claims.
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Thats all well and good. But of the 2 engines that have been built in my own garage, we started them, let them idle for about 30 mins then happily drove to my tuner to get them done.
Never had a prob.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Thu, 21 April 2005 15:22
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| Leighp wrote on Tue, 19 April 2005 13:23 |
third that one rebuild, I have done 20v and if i could do it again i would make my old 4age a carb option (only for the exhaust note)..... but a rebuild will do you alot better as then you know what u r getting and doing
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n00b question: isn't the pro (exhaust note) outweighed by the cons (having a more efficient engine)?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Fri, 22 April 2005 03:51
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while this question is raised.....if one was to get a 20V blacktop and one was sure it was in good condition and then put cams and haltech on it would that not be stronger then a 16V and let u rev to 9500?  im only asking as im in the same position as I_D....
thanx
Adam
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Fri, 22 April 2005 04:08
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well the reason i said rebuild the 16v above was due to the fact itll be the easiest option, and similar in cost, at the end youll ahve a good enigne you KNOW is good...
from his post it sounded like he was after the best way to get his car going reliably.
sounds like your after more performance, in which case the b/t with cams and haltech would suit you, cost more though!
all comes down to what you are after, but id try and stretch to a rebuild of the b/t. oh and dont try 9500 on b/t rods.....
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Fri, 22 April 2005 12:21
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| Quote: |
sounds like your after more performance, in which case the b/t with cams and haltech would suit you, cost more though!
all comes down to what you are after, but id try and stretch to a rebuild of the b/t.
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My thought exactly, even a s/top which is in need of a rebuild, which the last few I've only paid $400-500. But I have seen a few worked N/A 16V that still would eat a worked N/A 20V!
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oh and dont try 9500 on b/t rods.....
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Yeah, they do get interesting up this end, S/tops and plain old 16V still are a better item.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Fri, 22 April 2005 12:38
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 00:52 |
Idling is the worst thing you can do to a fresh engine from the start.... i suggest you do some more research before spouting such claims.
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Yes and no. As with all good questions.
Yes, idling is bad for the bores to ring sealing, you ideally want either ramp rising revs or hard thrashing depending on who you believe.
However, revs/thrashing is bad for the cams getting worn in, they need either idle or 2000rpm constant for abotu 20mins to bed in.
The ideal is to bed the cams in on another engine, and then bed in the rest of the engine on the cams...
EDIT: And yes, a 16v at the pointy end of the horsepower field will crap on a 20v with the same specs. Mainly due to the flow, and the squish areas being better on the 16v.
[Updated on: Fri, 22 April 2005 12:40]
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Fri, 22 April 2005 22:43
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Yeah, they do get interesting up this end, S/tops and plain old 16V still are a better item.
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id even go so far as to say just the S/tops
if you compare all the rods side by side then look at the integrity of each design youll see why very quickly
same applys with the cranks
damn i still have to find those photos as well!
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Fri, 22 April 2005 22:50
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| thu187 wrote on Fri, 22 April 2005 01:22 |
| Leighp wrote on Tue, 19 April 2005 13:23 |
third that one rebuild, I have done 20v and if i could do it again i would make my old 4age a carb option (only for the exhaust note)..... but a rebuild will do you alot better as then you know what u r getting and doing
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n00b question: isn't the pro (exhaust note) outweighed by the cons (having a more efficient engine)?
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maybe i should convert back to carbs for a better exhaust note?? wtf?
meh, if he's going to leave the motor dead stock, why not go the 20V?
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Fri, 22 April 2005 22:57
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same applys with the cranks
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um, what do you mean?
theres only 2 types of crank used in all 4age variants.... the 40mm rod journal (bluetops, ae82 and early aw11) and all the others, as in late aw11, ae92, ae101 and ae111.
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if he's going to leave the motor dead stock, why not go the 20V?
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well if he can have a new (rebuilt) 16v or 2nd hand 20v, i know which id prefer to have!
all these ppl saying the 16v is better for ultimate develpoment than the 20v, i disagree.... you have to do things differently with the 20v, there is no reason why the 20v cant be as or more powerful than a 16v, depends on the application, if exceding 10k for example, the 20v would be my choice... it all comes down to the application, certainly for n/a the black head would be better than the silver.... the most powerful 4agtes here for example, are all 20vs....
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Fri, 22 April 2005 23:18
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| Mr Revhead wrote on Sat, 23 April 2005 08:57 |
the most powerful 4agtes here for example, are all 20vs....
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I take it you mean in NZ?
The MOST POWERFUL? More power doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest number on the dyno, nor does it mean the one that can cover teh 1/4mi the fastest..rather the one with more power overall (ie the most area under the curve).
For the most effective street engine you would be better off with the small port.
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 00:34
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yeah theres all sorts of different interpretations isnt there.....
so kinda hard to say which would be the best....
like streetable.... all depends what your after, and what you call streetable... there is no reason why a 300hp 20v 4agte cant be streetable, but i bet theres some that arnt...
i say you can use either... look at the budget, the purpose and the how you intent to do it.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 03:09
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um, what do you mean?
theres only 2 types of crank used in all 4age variants.... the 40mm rod journal (bluetops, ae82 and early aw11) and all the others, as in late aw11, ae92, ae101 and ae111.
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well yes there are only two types of bearing sizes on the cranks, but the way the cranks are designed and constructed holds more than those differences, simply looking at the way the balance ends are shaped will show you that.
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 07:26
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sorry, theres not, there is only two types... bluetop and all the others.
been althrough the EPC on these, part numbers are all the same.
if toyota change even the TINIEST thing, the part number changes. also no ones been able to show me two stock cranks that are different
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 07:46
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| shcao wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 10:15 |
a worked 4age will run the pants around a 20v
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of course! any worked engine wil beat the same non worked engine.
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 07:56
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I didn't use the term streetable, I used the term effective street engine.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 09:31
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Weird, does look quite different, now ill have to go take pics of mine.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 14:45
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thats why everyone uses 101 cranks
best one of the lot
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 23:49
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well the one on the left looks like a stock 4age, the middle has been lightned and played with a lot, and the one on the right looks like something else alltogether! hard to tell from the pic but it looks as if some of the journals are not 4age size, and wheres the oil galleries?
i vlooked long and hard into the 4ages over the last 2 years, both through toyotas epc and actual engines, apart from the internet myths about ae111 hollow cranks and 4agze being stronger, this is the only time iv heard different.
im afraid there really is ont the one 42mm version, no special ones, none better than others, they are the same
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sat, 23 April 2005 23:51
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is the r/h one a bluetop? 40mm?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sun, 24 April 2005 04:28
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hmm so u guys think that keeping the 16V bigport is the best way of geting power? Also why is the silvertop better then the blacktop? Is the weak part of a b/t only the rods? Im planing on sticking with a NA set up and i had my mind set on a b/t but now i got doubts....its good to hear other ppls opinions on this topic
thanx
Adam
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Sun, 24 April 2005 09:18
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the rods in the black top are the weakest link. but fine for street use if u keep it under 8500.
bets parts comboe would be....
silvertop/late 16v rods, black pistons and head for an n/a engine.
use black t/bs and ecu etc
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE 16V or 20V
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Mon, 25 April 2005 00:15
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haha tricky! 
well, they certainly are different!
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