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Location:
Miami FL
Registered:
December 2002
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Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Wed, 11 December 2002 21:00
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Well I know this sounds a little off for the the average turbo joe. But I'm a licensed jet mechanic and have been working with jets for years so here goes!
I was thinking you could take a mini turbine like the one scene here:
http://users.iafrica.com/d/dj/djbritz/GasTurbine.h tml
Then you could retro fit the turbine to the exhaust side of a pretty large turbo and use the thrust from the engine to push your turbo. The mini-turbine has it's own starter and fuel source. and could be controlled from inside the car. Imagine pulling up to your local drag racing spot and spooling a mini jet engine to 111,000 rpm! These little devils are extremely loud. and intimidating. I know you can pick one up for under a grand I am still pricing things out. If this works it could change turbo charging for ever!
To give you an example. Your car (avg 6cyl) at full rev would only produce about 2 pounds of thrust. This mini unit produces 8 pounds of thrust! thats enough to spool the sh!T out of a t-88. (in theory of course) 
Only problem I see is space issues. Might have dig a big hole in the firewall to fit this thing under the hood. Anyone else think of this before? Any suggestions are very welcome?
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Wed, 11 December 2002 21:40
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I can see another problem with this...
The thing would put off so much heat you'd have to mount it on your roof!!!
There is no way you could run this thing under your bonnet. 
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Location:
Miami FL
Registered:
December 2002
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 Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Wed, 11 December 2002 22:04
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Yea I did think of that maybe it will cause poblems.
Although assuming you ran the ducting diretly to the inlet of the exhaust housing and welded it and then welded a fairly large down pipe down and out (maybe mid car) and dumped the exaust most of the heat will be carried out the exhaust. Anothr idea was just to weld on the downpipe wiht a 90* bend and go straight out the hood. Then I'd have a big 3 inch stack. Either or, I doubt the that the unit would retain much more heat than the stock unit.
I figure my EGT guage tells me I'm running a little over 800*Celcius on normal turbo applications. I know these mini turbies are mounted on model planes and do not melt or cause heat problems. Som of these planse are made fom fiberglas as well.
I was more worried abot the load the turbo puts on the engine once it spools. Although it look like I'm not the first. This has alreay been done.They were called Turbonique cars. Heres te sight I just found it. Awesome sight vague on the information. Check it out
http://www.nitronic.com/20/turbo.html
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Wed, 11 December 2002 22:29
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The difference between model planes and your car will be a model plane has bucket loads of air flow once its in the air.
any heat it puts out is not going to be hanging arround.
Whereas when placed in a car the heat will be trapped under the hood.
Have a look at this thread... theres a link to a guy who made a beer cooler out of a gas powered turbine, and on his page it has something about the incredible heat the thing put out (not to mention 125db).... funny read anyway....stupid kiwi!
http://www.toymods.org.au/msgboard/index.php?t=msg &th=6880&rid=979&S=4f63b71fbc1b2ec58cb 45a9fd52b71e6&pl_view=&start=0
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Thu, 12 December 2002 08:24
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Interesting.
What would be wrong with having a fuel injector before the turbos exst inlet with an ignitor?
At a certain RPM and less, inject fuel and light it up. Thats bound to get the turbo up to speed.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Thu, 12 December 2002 08:33
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That's what a lot of WRC cars use (anti lag). Works great but it's (a) loud as buggery, (b) illegal and (c) kills turbos quickly.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Thu, 12 December 2002 15:45
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Antilag is a little different than what i said.
Antilag occasionaly doesnt fire a cyl at the normal time, but instead waits until the exst port is open before giving the spark.
Yeh... would do pretty much the same thing as what i mentioned.
I imagine its illegal because it is noisy and it creates high emmsisions.
But using a continous source of fuel to keep the turbo going would remove the popping that anitlag normally creates. Actaully, i dont think it would make any extra noise at all except for the sound of the turbo spinning.
Its probably the sudden impact of the anti-lag that also kills turbos. Having the continuous small flame should be a lot easier on the turbo.
Some things to think about.
Grrr.. only if i had a turboed car to try it on 
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Location:
Miami FL
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Thu, 12 December 2002 23:59
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| M.W.P. wrote on Fri, 13 December 2002 01:45 |
Antilag is a little different than what i said.
Antilag occasionaly doesnt fire a cyl at the normal time, but instead waits until the exst port is open before giving the spark.
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There are many different versions of "anti-lag". The one you mention is more popular these days, but in the past just dumping fuel in the exhaust manifold (pre-turbo) was the preferred method.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Fri, 13 December 2002 01:27
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Not sure if i got this right but do you use the turbine to keep the turbo spooled???
If you do then wouldn't this kill your turbo real quick????
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Fri, 13 December 2002 08:11
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| Norbie wrote on Fri, 13 December 2002 10:29 |
| M.W.P. wrote on Fri, 13 December 2002 01:45 |
Antilag is a little different than what i said.
Antilag occasionaly doesnt fire a cyl at the normal time, but instead waits until the exst port is open before giving the spark.
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There are many different versions of "anti-lag". The one you mention is more popular these days, but in the past just dumping fuel in the exhaust manifold (pre-turbo) was the preferred method.
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Ah ok...
Yeh i didnt think my idea would be a new one
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Location:
Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Sun, 15 December 2002 06:23
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I would use it as a gas producer and have that drive another automotive turbocharger.
You would need to make sure that the automotive turbocharger can take the EGT of the small gas turbine..
To my knowledge they come completely self contained with their own control mechanism and you simply adjust thrust like in the real thing.
Something you would also need to research is how well the unit can take shock and vibration. Will its take the impact/shock loads that driving will cause without throwing blades.
Then you would also have to ensure that the unit will shut down in an accident, it would be a perfect little fire starter..
It would be interesting to see how well it works out..
Cheers
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Sun, 15 December 2002 10:19
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I have a feeling you'd have problems controlling the boost pressure with a setup like that. The airflow requirements of a car engine are constantly changing, whereas a jet turbine is designed to run at constant speed. What happens when you're boosting hard and the turbine is spinning at 100,000 rpm, then you lift your foot off the throttle? Is the turbine going to stop instantly? Then what about the reverse situation, when you floor the throttle in first and the revs jump to redline in a second or so - can the turbine accelerate fast enough to keep up with the engine?
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Location:
Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Mon, 16 December 2002 00:15
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Yes, you would need to regulate the pressure.
If you keep the turbo up to speed when you crack the throttle it should ready, more ready than an engine exhaust driven unit.
You could link the boost presure to the throttle position and engine RPM that way you could adjust your boosting to suite the circumstances better.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mini gas turbine powered turbo (theory)
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Tue, 17 December 2002 03:36
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Wont the wastegate just take care of extra boost?
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