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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 07:43
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Hi all,
I have a question for you:
but first the background:
I currently work in IT as second level support, I've been in the IT industry for the past 7 years doing things ranging from:
network engineering
network management
desktop support
helpdesk
network infrastructure design and management
Wireless lans
All of the above supporting sites with between 3 - 1500 pc's, users in excess of 3000 and in some cases sites with 15 + servers.
the position I am currently in is stable, pays well (50k + corp car + laptop + mobile phone) yet I find it incredibly boring...
Boring too the point I am usually half asleep, this position is permanent to government (for those who don't know - that means unless I do something really stupid like torch a govt. building - I'm there till I retire).
ok onto the question:
Do I take a risk, find a new exciting challenging job that is likely to pay as well as my current (probably minus the perks) that may not have the same security, or do I stick with my mediocre current position where I feel my skills and abilities are wasted?
Money isn't the reason behind the question, it's more job satisfaction....
Anyone? comments welcome.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 07:45
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get to know linux better
become a consultant on linux migration
get contracting jobs for agencies thinking of making the big leap
work less and get paid more
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 07:50
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personally, I always go for job sat over pay
prolly explains why I earn less than our clients, but what can ya do?
I'd take the plunge, and go looking for soehting that will challenge you if tehre's no room for advancement in your current position
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 07:52
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Any courses you'd reccomend for linux / unix?
I mean I've done most networking courses eg:
CNE (Certified novell engineer), MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional), CCNP (Cisco Certified Networking Professional - Still working on this one) ((Full titles there only for non IT people))
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 07:53
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Draven - the next step for me:
is to a desk with no hands on - doing paperwork - which at 24 they can cram fairly well up.... Paperwork position can come when I'm mid 40's and sick of technology 
so guess that leaves the big jump hey 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 09:37
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i had my certificate in windows NT 4 server administration at 16, im now 25 and IT shits me to tears as it has sence i was 18  its never payed enough to be worth it, at one stage i was managing 3 computer retail outlets at once! i dont know a single person thats happy in IT
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 10:26
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| ra23mad wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 17:52 |
Any courses you'd reccomend for linux / unix?
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seriously: i'd suggest graduate certificate or diploma in either system development or application development (not both - head will explode) ...
so you're positioned to give advice to:
companies or agencies migrating back end infrastructure (e.g. domains, server farms, exchange servers) over to a linux or unix groupware environments
or
companies or agencies migrating suites of applications from MS or other proprietary databases and applications over to open source (mysql, sysbase, postgresql, etc mixed with apache, php, java, etc) with accompanying web-enabled front ends
or
(and this is what our web unit is always searching for) business analysts who can look at groups seeking to automate or migrate disparate systems and business practices over to online and efficient business processes - it's not coding or application development - but helping business bring together their requirements and needs so they can concentrate on doing their jobs well rather wondering how-the-hell to jobs their jobs not so badly.
we're employing analysists for information analysis steps of some of our web site development - at $65-75 an hour (to the hiring agency) so we expect a lot of these people - but if you'r good, expect to work 6 months of the year.
if you stick to the CNE and CISCO training, you'll be stuck in the server and comms rooms (which is fine if you're an ubergeek).
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 10:52
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 19:37 |
i dont know a single person thats happy in IT
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that sounds familiar... im in IT and everyone i know also pretty much gets the shits with it after a couple of years.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 10:57
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I'd hate to work with computers, give me a big workshop, cars and good company anyday. Screw the pay.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 11:08
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| toof wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 20:22 |
im in IT and everyone i know also pretty much gets the shits with it after a couple of years.
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Try 7 years.....
I'm not unhappy in IT - I love it and yes I am an ubergeek.
Just bored in my current position...where I feel I'm standing still or going backwards.
*guess it's time to look for alternate workplace*
chuckster: I'm going to look up systems development now as long as it doesn't turn me into a coder
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 13:08
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problem is we have all turned our hobby into our employment, who here got interested in computers just for making money?? ill bet $10 that you all enjoyed computers and someone said "stick with it you will make alot of money" shure if you can switch off from auditing user accounts and that one fucking single network cable out of 10,000 that is up agenst the cabnet door and when the door is closed on a normal day or the door is open its fine but once a week the cleaner comes in and bumps it and it drops out for ~10 hours at a time till the aircon switchs on when the building heats up thru the day that you happen to miss,
or the soloution you devise for a change over from a Windows 2000 server to linux falls on its face and you have to manualy transfer every coustomers account on a large telcos ISP account datebase
ITS NOT WORTH IT! get out of IT before you end up a lonely geek thats very unhappy IMHO
i love working with computers i LOVE solving problems but perfection takes more time then ANYONE is willing to pay for
do you guys wanna see where you will retire from IT ?
http://www.comptroub.com.au/content/news.htm
welcome to hell! these guys are like us but old! do you want to end up fixing home PC's? there are guys there that i was in awe of thay worked high up in all these companys and now thay fight agenst Jim's home pc mowing there savings after puting there kids thru school just geat eaten up and its just nasty
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 13:46
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who says youll end up lonely if you work in IT?
i know plenty of people who work in IT and have plenty of... attention..
as for my advice, take the plunge, just make sure you save a bit before you do so incase it all goes pear shaped...
Eldar.O.
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 13:58
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Im sick of IT allready and im 3 months from completing my Batchelor of IT, ive completed my Diploma of Software Development and was offered a 1.5 year addon cource to get my Batchelor (which for the record, was an utter waste of time for anything other than the piece of paper at the end - this is probably the main reason why i lost all motivation, but thats a whole other story)
Being a techy will get you no where, and its shit work, and add to that there are so many people in the industry - hell, my mate has 0 qualifications and hes doing fairly well for a starter Im glad i chose software development over tech work though, i loath tech work... while im perfectly capable its just an asslike job 
| thechuckster wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 20:26 |
| ra23mad wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 17:52 |
Any courses you'd reccomend for linux / unix?
|
companies or agencies migrating suites of applications from MS or other proprietary databases and applications over to open source (mysql, sysbase, postgresql, etc mixed with apache, php, java, etc) with accompanying web-enabled front ends
or
(and this is what our web unit is always searching for) business analysts who can look at groups seeking to automate or migrate disparate systems and business practices over to online and efficient business processes - it's not coding or application development - but helping business bring together their requirements and needs so they can concentrate on doing their jobs well rather wondering how-the-hell to jobs their jobs not so badly.
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These are the 2 things i will be aiming for when i get into the workforce, im hoping the real thing will get me over the bad experiences at uni
Being a pleb software devel guy is going to get u no where as what costs businesses ~80k a year for a software dev, they can get in india for 8k. Best place to be is telling the indians what to do
The Diploma of software devel is VERY good, we focused primarily on business applications with Java as well as things as project management, security, analysis, so for 2 years of full time work you will come out prepared to take on the above roles
Phill
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 14:20
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Perhaps another question which you might want to ask yourself is do you wish to be in another job (in the same line) and will you be satisfied with more challenging job ?
Are you doing what you really want to be doing ? Some ppl are not happy working for others.
my 2 cents.
| ra23mad wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 15:43 |
Money isn't the reason behind the question, it's more job satisfaction....
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 16:19
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gimmi your job
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 21:43
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Hi,
I've been in IT for over 25 years. I know what you mean 'cos now it's full of wankers and shrink-wrapped software.
In the good old days you had to build/design things yourself and use your brain to get things done. And, at the time, you were actually respected for what you knew and how you applied your skills to getting the job done. There was room for knowledge growth and innovation.
Now, however, all you really are is a software-jockey who puts in service-packs and looks up errors in a book (or the net or wherever) and apply those changes. If it doesn't work then you send a call to the vendor for help. Hardly brain-sapping stuff.
Whether it be Linux or MS - it's the same shit, different smell.
Also I got tired of having to spend money and time every few years 'cos someone brought out a new OS or some other application or system that required certification. As you get older you get more jaded, more cynical and realise that the newer products really don't offer much more than what you had - but they're an excellent vehicle for the vendor to keep charging for their product. That is, charging for new licenses as well as the actual product, charging for training, and a whole host of other things they can hit you and your company for.
I liked to be kept busy, have plenty of challenges and this means working in higher risk areas. I like the Financial Markets (especially Front Office/Dealing Room) environments, where change is always guaranteed and in these 24/7 "mission-critical" (god, I hate that worn out expression) there is always some risk of failure - but the job satisfaction and rewards are worth it. It paid off my house and all debts and now I do a few months of work each year on Dealing Room Project Management, Support Streamlinging/Technology accountability or BCP/DRP contracts to keep the cash flowing in.
I've got plenty of systems & technology at home to satisfy my geekness, and make it more fun by being my hobby.
With your current certifications, I'd be looking at doing some ITIL certification. Do the Base Certificate and the Practitioners Certificate. Later on you can then do your Masters Certificate if you want. Then you start looking for jobs where you actually manage the uber-geeks and the technology, as opposed to being stuck in the "boring tech support" syndrome.
Furthermore, ITIL is still relatively new and is a growing area and jobs for these skills are increasing. And, once you're certified (courses are less than a week in length) you stay qualified - no need to re-do in a few years. Also, join the ITSM (IT Service Management) institute. It's a bit ghey, but it looks good on your resume when going for some jobs.
In the end, go for job satisfaction. No matter how well you're paid, if you wake up each morning and say "shit, I gotta go to work today and I hate it" then it's time to change jobs. Trust me, as you get older it all comes down to lifestyle and contentment, not money.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 22:51
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| ra23mad wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 17:43 |
Boring too the point I am usually half asleep, this position is permanent to government (for those who don't know - that means unless I do something really stupid like torch a govt. building - I'm there till I retire).
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Ummm that is in fact a lie, it is quite easy to get fired as a public servant. It is only public servants who spread the rumour that it isn't.
My mate was a professional service provider and got 2 pubes fired when they refused to do work cos they were public servants and couldn't get fired.
3 months later (and only 2 or 3 forms to fill out) they were both out the door, this in fact is almost easier than getting rid of someone in private industry...
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 23:03
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COBOL is the solution to everyones problems
i am a compy geek in the bowels of the computing industry but i wont be doing it for much longer.
in fact ra23mad, your job sounds absolutely perferct for my current situation, if only you were in NSW, id tell u to give your job and perks to me.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 23:12
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what are you complaining about, no matter what job you do you'll always be bored or have someone you don't like there, its a fact of life, You get a company car 50K laptop and mobile, whats wrong with that.
You have plenty of money to throw into a project car.
Put it this way no matter what you do your gonna find something that you don't like. Even ppl with the so called ultimate jobs or dream jobs i have talked to complain about work. My sister used to work for research getting paid 35K a year to pretty much read magazines and she left that, and has gone down hill from there. Stay where you are and just find a good hobby or interest on weekends to make you happier.
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 23:14
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Hi,
| rob_RA40 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 09:03 |
COBOL is the solution to everyones problems
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Ahhh, good old COBOL. Didn't the COBOL programmers make a killing for the Y2K preparations! A couple of my COBOL programming mates went to New York on some stupidly obsene contract rate to go through old code to see if it was compliant.
Now, I wonder whatever happend to the ALGOL programmers?
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Wed, 27 April 2005 23:38
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| Corona RT142 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 09:12 |
Stay where you are and just find a good hobby or interest on weekends to make you happier.
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\
agree fully with this.
the more interests you have outside of work then the less work will matter, work will cease becoming the main thing in your life and just a means to doing whatever you're doing as a hobby or that weekend, or paying off a house, or whatever
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 00:14
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| Corona RT142 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 09:12 |
Stay where you are and just find a good hobby or interest on weekends to make you happier.
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LOL says the n00b who is fresh into the real world since like 2 months ago and has yet to have his soul crushed by the weight of the system.
his advice will turn u into a slave.
if your not happy, set a goal for your career and aim for it. If its something you really want to do then you have to be prepared to take a risk and walk thru shit to achieve it.
its entirely up to you, wise man once say, someone who does nothing ends up with nothing.
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 00:29
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 10:14 |
| Corona RT142 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 09:12 |
Stay where you are and just find a good hobby or interest on weekends to make you happier.
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LOL says the n00b who is fresh into the real world since like 2 months ago and has yet to have his soul crushed by the weight of the system.
his advice will turn u into a slave.
if your not happy, set a goal for your career and aim for it. If its something you really want to do then you have to be prepared to take a risk and walk thru shit to achieve it.
its entirely up to you, wise man once say, someone who does nothing ends up with nothing.
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yup im with rob on this one ur saying do something u hate 5 days a week just so u can do something u like 2 days a week, itd wanna be something better than a project car! 
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 00:32
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I have worked in IT for 7 years also, and I am starting to feel the same. It's getting boring. I get to use the web all day which is good, but even that can get boring. I honestly get more pleasure building PC's and mucking around with them at home.
I can kind of relate to River, in that I used to write "software" the old school way and still do (Batch files, simple commands and Visual basic front ends) for either helpdesk staff or users to make life a bit easier. Now whenever I start or propose something, there is always some sofware package that can do it. Sure it uses 500% more disk space and memory, but it looks sexy. Argh.
The other thing that anoys me is when you used to administer a network (Users\computers\groups) you had to know what you were doing. Here at work they continue to write scripts that make it so simple a monkey could do my job. New people that come in learn how to double click an icon and then enter data, they don't understand what is actually happening.
For me at the moment, the trouble is, if i left here, i would not be able to get the same pay elsewhere, and at this stage I would rather have more money coming in, than $20,000 less and be happier at work.
I'd just stick with it and continue hobbies outside of work that you like, like others have suggested
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 00:32
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 10:14 |
| Corona RT142 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 09:12 |
Stay where you are and just find a good hobby or interest on weekends to make you happier.
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LOL says the n00b who is fresh into the real world since like 2 months ago and has yet to have his soul crushed by the weight of the system.
his advice will turn u into a slave.
if your not happy, set a goal for your career and aim for it. If its something you really want to do then you have to be prepared to take a risk and walk thru shit to achieve it.
its entirely up to you, wise man once say, someone who does nothing ends up with nothing.
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pfft i have been working full time for three months now, and before that had worked for three and half years part time, and in the break after the HSC i may as well class that as full time work. Work to me is simply a means of getting money to enjoy life or to spend on a car
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 00:34
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oh and by the way i don't mind my job, sure sometimes it may get boring but the ppl are friendly and the pays good so thats all that matters.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 00:56
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| Sigmeister wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 10:32 |
I'd just stick with it and continue hobbies outside of work that you like, like others have suggested
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| Corona RT142 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 10:32 |
Work to me is simply a means of getting money to enjoy life or to spend on a car
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slaves for life.
people dont agree with my advice because its risky and i agree it is risky.
if you really want a change, set yourself a career goal and shoot for it. If you have to endure walking thru shit, or taking a pay cut to achieve that goal then so be it.
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 01:17
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| Corona RT142 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 10:34 |
oh and by the way i don't mind my job, sure sometimes it may get boring but the ppl are friendly and the pays good so thats all that matters.
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Thats a different story, you like your job... if your bored/feel unchallanged thats where you should be looking for more
Personally, i hate it unless im getting challenging work, and i would do anything i can to get out of it
if your HAPPY or CONTENT with what you have be it challenging or not, stick with it but if your NOT happy or content... insert robs recomendations here
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 02:09
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Guys and Girls...
Between River, Rob_Ra40, Gearbox, Chuckster, Draven and Allan:
I think I've decided to take a risk - the advantage that I have is being a 'permanent' gov employee I am able to take 'leave without pay' for a period of up to two years and have 'right of return' to my current position.
meaning it's not as risky too me as compared to everyone else.
Am currently looking at the ITIL courses that River suggested (expensive and I have to go to melbourne to do it) but should provide the change I need to feel refreshed and challenged again in my chosen career path, and if I can do it the right way I should be able to move into consultancy and network design for high end companies.
Thanks to everyone for their advice and quite useful information, it's most appreciated.
I'm also glad to know that I'm not alone in feeling bored and under appreciated for the skill set that I've had to develop over the last 7 years.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 02:28
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 10:26 |
| Sigmeister wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 10:32 |
I'd just stick with it and continue hobbies outside of work that you like, like others have suggested
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| Corona RT142 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 10:32 |
Work to me is simply a means of getting money to enjoy life or to spend on a car
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slaves for life.
people dont agree with my advice because its risky and i agree it is risky.
if you really want a change, set yourself a career goal and shoot for it. If you have to endure walking thru shit, or taking a pay cut to achieve that goal then so be it.
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I wouldn't say slaves for life.
At this stage in my life, I would much rather be able to look after myself outside of work and enjoy myself there, than live in the gutter knowing how much happier I am there. Once I am a little more settled, I'll look at some other opportunities.
I am currently debt free and would like to keep it that way.
Good luck with you endevours ra23mad!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Work question (not car related)
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Thu, 28 April 2005 05:45
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Eat lots of cheese.
*May not solve your problem
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