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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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toyota temperature senders and guages
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Mon, 25 April 2005 01:15
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well most problems are fixed so far, just need to work out my brake woes and also my temperature gauge readings (an 85' thermo switch switched on at 75% of the gauge!)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 02:24
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well i found out that the temp gauge senders are indeed very different. I installed both simaltaneously and discovered the celica one (ra65 therfore match to dash) ran at about 40-45% of the gauge for operating temperature..the fans hadnt cut in at 85" at this point tho?
I swapped the terminal over to the other sender and the gauge was at about 70%
Anyone own an ra65/ sa63/ ra60 and can tell me what part of the gauge they run at?
thanks blake
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 02:38
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Are you saying that the Digital Dash sender, and the Analogue dash sender are different?
If so, I don't beleive they are.
No one else who has done a swap has found this out.
Maybe one of your senders, or even your dash is faulty.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 02:52
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no, the sender i have is out of an mx62 cressida from memory. And the one i picked up last weekend was out of an ra60.
But i seem to think the digital and analogue dashes would have different senders yes.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 02:52
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by the way..i dont know of anyone who has actually successfully done this swap?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 03:25
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I'm yet to here ANY Toyota guage senders to be different.
I'm running a UZS131 Crown one on my MX73 dash.
Norbie has a JZS147 one on his MA61 dash.
Frank has a GA70 one on his GA61 dash.
My other car has an MA70 one its MA61 dash.
Plus there are many many other people who have done the same.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 04:54
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I once hooked up a TA22 gauge to my JZS147 sender and it seemed to work fine also.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 05:10
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MS45s (and earlier) have an internally voltage regulated bimetallic strip temp sender. It's compatible with nothing post 1967.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 06:01
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well something is certainly different out of the 9 senders i picked up...the fact that one reads half of the gauge more than the other indicates something is up. And the sensor reading too high was in fine working condition on an mx62, as wilbo666 gave it to me..
Obviously Celicas run different senders to other cars.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 06:19
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| Norbie wrote on Sat, 30 April 2005 14:54 |
I once hooked up a TA22 gauge to my JZS147 sender and it seemed to work fine also.
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yeah but i noticed on your gauge when i came for a ride in it, it sits at one bar above centre of the gauge. My ma61, when it was really hot would only go to midway - and i dont think yours was this hot going by what activity your fans were going at. So odds on, your jzs147 sender isnt correct for the ma61 gauge...you'll find maybe the 2j will run one below middle until hot then go up to middle...its worth a try if you can get your hands on an ma61 sender.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 06:44
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My ma61 sits dead in the middle with a JZA80 sender.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 07:37
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| BlackSupra wrote on Sat, 30 April 2005 16:44 |
My ma61 sits dead in the middle with a JZA80 sender.
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even then, i doubt that is correct! Theres no way a mild 2jz would run a lot hotter than a 5m...unless you were giving it a caining..obviously theres a lot of different types of senders as i have just discovered...
My dads jag has the same problem. The gauge is barely moving off dead cold, yet the motor is hot...thats with a chev sender in a jag dash...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 08:03
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Lesson Number 1 for Blake.
The Guages in Toyota cars are not to be taken for face value.
Just because its hotter on the guage, doesn't mean the engine is *that* much hotter.
With my guage, and comparing it to the readout on the laptop, the guage has a varied response.
For instance, lets say it normal sits at point X. (just below centre (analogue)).
It will get there, and the laptop readout will be at about 75degC.
The cars normal running temp is about 85degC.
The guage does not move.
Disconnect the thermo's, and let the temp rise.
The guage will remain in the SAME spot for 90degC on the lappie, 95degC, 98degC.
When the laptop reaches 100degC, the guage starts moving.
Within about 30secs, it is mm from the top.
Turn the thermos on, and within about 5 seconds, the guage will be almost back to normal, but the laptop readout will still be 100degC.
The guage is only to be taken as an indication of how hot your motor possibly is.
If you want to know exactly how hot it is, go get a guage with temperature readout. Then, and only then can you determine if your car is hot.
The running temp (while driving at say 60) should be 2-3 degrees above the thermostat opening temp.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sat, 30 April 2005 23:22
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the easiest way to fix the problem would be to work out what the range of the gauge is, if you have a variable resitance and voltage regulator you can attach it to the gauge, start at very low values and work out the threshold, then get a vdo sender to match.
If you dont have the equipment or a auto elec close to you that does then take the senders you have, work out which one gets highest up the gauge and work out the temp to resistance values, then try and guesstimate which VDO sender will be a closest match. A really easy way to do this would be to raid a few temp senders off various cars at your local wrecker and test each one.
By rights I think im correct in saying that digital dash's genrally have a lower resistance range than analogue but that doesent seem to be the case with your unit.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Sun, 01 May 2005 00:43
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my car is running a jzz30 sensor i beleive sits mid way on the gauge when warmed up
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Sun, 01 May 2005 02:46
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sorry to interupt but u guys seem to know what ur talkin about so ill ask...
if all senders work on all gauges does that mean that i can run the temp and fuel gauges on my digi dash using analog senders in a sprinter?
cheers
Adam
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Sun, 01 May 2005 09:43
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no dude, they dont work properly on all gauges.
Thats exactly what my problem is. You'd have to suck it and see so to speak.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: V8 MA61 PROGRESS UPDATE...IT RUNS!! VID INSIDE!
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Sun, 01 May 2005 11:21
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Sat, 30 April 2005 16:19 |
yeah but i noticed on your gauge when i came for a ride in it, it sits at one bar above centre of the gauge. My ma61, when it was really hot would only go to midway - and i dont think yours was this hot going by what activity your fans were going at. So odds on, your jzs147 sender isnt correct for the ma61 gauge...you'll find maybe the 2j will run one below middle until hot then go up to middle...its worth a try if you can get your hands on an ma61 sender.
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My gauge works exactly the same as it did with the old 5M-E, so I have no reason to believe anything is amiss. And normally the gauge sits right in the middle, it only creeps up in warmer weather because the cooling system is currently inadequate.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Sun, 01 May 2005 12:19
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My GA70 1GGTEU temperature gauge works exactly the same as my old 1GEU one did according to the gauge. She gets up to just under the halfway mark as it's warming up and never moves.
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Location:
melb
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Sun, 01 May 2005 13:58
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technicly speaking back in the days of old toyotas eg 60,s the sender was calibrated with the dash, (yes every 1 was calibrated by hand)and if u moved a sender around 2 diff cars u would get slight diff readings on the dash , when u do a engine conversion u should always try 2 keep the sender that was designed 2 run with the dash, late toyotas seem 2 b similer in the sender resistances so mis matches still seem 2 work ok.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Sun, 01 May 2005 14:00
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I'll put $10 on the fact that one of the 2 temp senders you have is faulty Blake, either that or its not an 80's/90's Toyota one.
No one else has ever come across this problem.
AFAIK all UZS131 guages are digital, and my guages are analogue.
But I'm using the UZS131 digital sender in my car, and it works fine.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Mon, 02 May 2005 04:55
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If anyone's interested, I went through the painful process of measuring the characteristics of my 1J gauge sensor (originally out of a JZA70).
ie pot of water, thermometer, multimeter
Bring slowly to the boil whilst noting temp/resistance
Serves 1.
I'll upload the spreadsheet tonight.
Peter
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Mon, 02 May 2005 05:42
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Funny you should mention that Peter, if my little excursion with RP7 and the air compressor on the wastegate actuators didn't work, that is the next thing I'll be doing.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Mon, 02 May 2005 05:43
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the temp sensor off the cressida works FINE. WILBO666 was using it before he gave it to me.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Mon, 02 May 2005 05:57
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Only thing I can suggest is that something is wrong with either the wiring or the gauge itself. I know my RA60 gauge is stuffed. Thing is, Nark's GA70 one works on his RA60 dash, just the same as the way my GA70 one works on my digital GA61 dash.
I think you're complicating the situation too much. What's the resistances on the sensors when reaching a stable temp from idling?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Mon, 02 May 2005 06:25
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I have a mysterious problem with the senders or wiring or wat i dunno. but this is wat happens..
when my car is on and i drive somewhere, my thermo fan will not come on, unless my aircon is switched on, so i always keep it on low. and then it works fine. but what i dont understand is that.
when i switch my car off and my turbo timer lets the car idle, then the thermos work fine.
has anyone heard of a similar situation? i have never.
and all this started happening after a "toyota specialist" changed the timing belt, water pump, and thermostat on my car.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2003
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 00:46
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Peter,
Nice work with the graphing. Are you set up to test other water temp sensors in a similar way please ?
Thanks,
Mitch.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 00:49
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Peter, I put a multimeter on my spare 1uz temp guage sender last night, came to 1050ohm, which puts it in about the 17-20deg mark, which was about the temp of the air in my garage.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 05:08
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Andrew - thanks that sounds promising.
Mitch - yes I can do the same test for you (only takes a little while).
One thing to double check though. That info is only the gauge sensor & NOT the sensor used by the ECU. If you have an overfuelling issue (and suspect the ECU thinks the engine is too cold) it doesn't matter what the gauge sensor is doing. The characteristics of the sensor used by the ECU are quite different. Have a look at http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM_MKII/fi /FI_072.html for a MA61.
Regards
Peter
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 05:18
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Peter,
Thanks and understood about the gauge sensor, I just wanted to check what my sensor should be reading. Some time ago I tested it by disconnecting the Water Temp Sensor plug to check the CEL light operation, and got a code 11 (ECU power interruption) not the expected 22 (THW sensor). So, I wanted to see what measurements it should show and whether that sensor is fubar.
BTW, a new one from Toyota is $91.92 inclusive....... 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 05:32
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Yeah - Toyota pricing is pretty nasty.
If you want to rip yours out, I can boil it up & see what it does. Do you have a manual with the curve to compare it to?
Peter
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 05:36
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Yep, I can do that.
I have the manual on a CD but of course its all in Japanese, but I have found out that this same sensor is common to a whole range of EFI Toyota's, such as the AW11, ST162, AE91-92, YN61, LH50/60/70/80, HJ60, AE82/86, SV20, Sv11 and VZV20 and MA70 and MS110. I would expect the same sensor in each of these cars to produce the same graph ?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 06:02
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Thanks, that looks fairly similar to the one in the Autoshop101 site.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 06:05
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Those two graphs look the same to me (MA70 & MA61).
I have a spare (used) MA61 (5MGE) ECU temp sensor. When it was tested out of the vehicle it seemed fine.
Either of you fellas want to borrow it?
Peter
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 06:06
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I'm pretty sure mine isn't causing the problem, you grab it Mitch.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 06:17
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Mitch - work number & mobile have changed.
I'll pm you.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Tue, 03 May 2005 06:20
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Thanks Peter.
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On Probation
Location:
nsw
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Wed, 04 May 2005 00:55
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On the 1GGTE is the sender on the motor or in the Radiator ?
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Wed, 04 May 2005 02:08
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Peter,
I finished up testing the water temp sensor in the car this morning, at about 5.30am, 15 degrees outside.
Just to recap, straight after driving it home I got 0.192 kOhm (about 90 odd degrees) and then it progressively increased through 0.252, 0.373, 0.414, 0.689 etc until about 1.5 hours later last night, it read 1.090 kOhm.
This morning it was showing 2.420 kOhm.
These all compare very well to the graph we were looking at so I think I can exclude the water temp sensor from the list of possible causes.
And thanks for dropping by, good to see you again. Hopefully I will have the timing sorted by Friday arvo.
Cheers,
Mitch.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Wed, 04 May 2005 02:09
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BBB,
Motor.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Wed, 04 May 2005 03:28
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so is anyone else having this problem or has anyone come to any conclusions yet?
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: toyota temperature senders and guages
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Mon, 16 May 2005 13:23
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I just recently getting this error code...the car runs like shit, it boost cuts(yes i know its go no boost cut) but cuts ignition at 11 psi...where didn't before..and when warm the idle goes funny kinda poping and drops to 500rmp after about 30 secconds idling ant AF ration jups to 20(very f**l lean) this only happens at idle...the mixture goes back to norm(ie. very rich) when driving....Hmm any solutions...kinda sounds weird just for the Water thermo sensor signal??
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