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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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turbo bags
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Tue, 03 May 2005 13:51
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I was wondering if there are any real world experiences with turbo bags and deteriation of the turbo? I was just thinking that holding all that heat inside the turbo may not be a good thing. I would have thought it would be better if it could dissapate but then be removed from the engine bay quickly. Any info. would be appreciated.
thanks
Chris
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: turbo bags
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Tue, 03 May 2005 14:02
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slightly OT - but i remember my engine builder (swift) suggesting that the insides of the manifold and turbine scroll and the dump pipe be hi-temp ceramic coated (same stuff as you would apply to piston tops and valve faces) to reduce heat transfer to the metal (and prevent some gas tempreture loss in the exhaust flow)
he showed me a turbo housing and related bits from a VW setup for drag racing - a few extra horsepower to wring out of the exhaust flow which could lead to a winnign run.
if you were to combine that with suitable bagging/wrapping then you'll get very hot zorst gasses and more boost while having cooler engine bay?
am not sure what all this would do to the life of the zorst turbine.
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Tue, 03 May 2005 23:43
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If you want to see what I run, go to my website www.stradlater.com and check out the latest pics in the archive, they've got some decent shots of how I wrapped my turbo. did make a difference.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: turbo bags
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Wed, 04 May 2005 00:49
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Sorry, no real world experience yet, but I'll let you know after 50,000Km if my turbo is still holding together 
From what I understand, the turbo should be fine for the heat and one of the main causes of wear being rapid temp changes, which this would aid.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 02:19
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hmm. No doubt it would make the engine bay cooler but I still don't know if they are detrimental to the turbo. I understand what you are saying though davedave.
Stradlater: I had a look at your pics and that does look like you really needed the extra help with cooling. The brake master cylinder looks about as close to the turbo as mine was before I got the flange moved.
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 03:53
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im pretty sure a turbo bag/exhaust wrapping is used so that the 'energy' (heat) passes through the exhaust, then the muffler and out of the car, instead of passing through the actual exhaust pipe metal.
something to do with more energy flowing instead of soaking into the pipes/turbo.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 04:02
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And what I am asking is: does this additional heat that is being held inside the turbo cause damage over time?
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 04:19
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I sincerely doubt it.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 04:38
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that is what I like to hear 
thanks mate
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 04:56
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no,
the idea of the bag is to not let the heat soak into the turbo.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 06:27
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i would have thought it would have the same effect as having exhaust wrap on manifolds which 'people' have said can damage them over time by allowing them to get hotter than they would otherwise bla bla bla. but i spose the exhaust housing itself is much thicker than your average steam pipe manifold.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Nthn Beaches, Sydney
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 07:32
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45aken, how would the bag stop heat from soaking into the turbo??
The heat is coming from the turbo, the bag stops it 'soaking' into other components near the turbo, if anything. Keeping the heat in the system thermodynamically means greater efficiency (ie less energy lost) and hence some power gain. Probably minimal, and it's done more for protecting other stuff than power.
Anyway, i agree with stradlater, really doubt it would cause any problems to your turbo.
Edit: unless you meant stop heat from turbine getting to compressor? Cause that is one thing that would benefit from the decreased radiation.
Edit2: But, (i really should finish trains of thought before posts) most heat transfered to the compressor would be through all the common material, shaft etc, not heat radiated off the turbine housing. Besides, compressing the air charge heats it up plenty already, thank god for intercoolers
[Updated on: Thu, 05 May 2005 07:41]
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 08:18
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I have one on my car. It works well to keep engine temps down. My exhaust housing/manifold/dump pipe is ceramic coated as well.
Works well for me.
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: turbo bags
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Thu, 05 May 2005 22:55
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to be honest, i don't know the whole workings of the bag, but all i understood was that it made the entire system more efficient. i dont think there that amazing anyways, my mate's got a 8 sec 13B rx3 (his cousin owns pac) and he dosent run a turbo bag, and he also uses a coke bottle as an oil breather(just goes to show that most stuff like that are just gimmicks).
but i do agree that it would keep engine temps down.
but to answer your question no i doubt it would, turbo's are designed to get hot as hell anyways. your turbo would fail due to wear and tear before it failed due to excess heat caused by the bag.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Fri, 06 May 2005 06:32
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no offense 45aken but you seem to have little understanding of whats going on. just cause your mates got an 8 second car without a bag doesnt mean that a bag would be useless. and the bag is not about keeping air temps down at all, thats what the radiator is for. its about 2 things: reducing radiated heat to the engine bay and other components, and increasing the efficiency of the turbo by allowing more of the energy to turn the turbine rather than be wasted as radiated heat.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Fri, 06 May 2005 07:12
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haha i was thinking the same 
ill be putting a bag on mine soon as i dont want my brakes being cook, its gets damn hot as is without even boosting around
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Fri, 06 May 2005 09:47
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how hot is the oil coming in to the oil breather? because i've noticed that coke bottles substancially distort if you pour boiling water in them.
wouldn't the oil be hot after running the car? and therefore wouldn't the oil be hot enough to distort the coke bottle oil breather? because that could lead to spillage and spillage can potentially = fire.
just curious on how it works
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Location:
Thornleigh sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: turbo bags
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Fri, 06 May 2005 10:56
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the bag is too keep engine temperatures down!!!
the turbo runs off exhaust gas....(a few extra degree will do shit all to a turbo).....but a few extra degrees for the air intake will make your car run like shit!.....use more fuel and less performance...
the whole idea is to keep engine bay temperatures down...
it wont add 10kw@tw....just make your car run better under hotter conditions!,
blake 
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: turbo bags
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Fri, 06 May 2005 11:59
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| lobby69 wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 20:56 |
the bag is too keep engine temperatures down!!!
the turbo runs off exhaust gas....(a few extra degree will do shit all to a turbo).....but a few extra degrees for the air intake will make your car run like shit!.....use more fuel and less performance...
the whole idea is to keep engine bay temperatures down...
it wont add 10kw@tw....just make your car run better under hotter conditions!,
blake
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and your car made an extra 10kw atw using this setup???
i would say the turbo blanket is mainly to stop things arround your turbo melting as a by product it keeps under bonnet temps down and helps the turbo spool up
my 2 cents
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Fri, 06 May 2005 23:17
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thanks guys. Yes I knew what the purpose of the turbo bag is. I was just contemplating whether to get one or use a conventional metal heat shield. I will also be heat wrapping the dump pipe.
Well, now that I know that the turbo shouldn't be damaged, it comes down to a matter of finances.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: turbo bags
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Sat, 07 May 2005 04:01
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mine cost like $200. cheap as man.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: turbo bags
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Sat, 07 May 2005 06:53
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mine was $50, but I don't mind second hand things
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Sat, 07 May 2005 07:31
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Well, I would like a $50 one. Anyone got one to fit a ta45?
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Sun, 08 May 2005 09:02
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its good when i correct someone than make a mistake myself  but you knew i meant engine not air 
i dont think its to keep engine temps down like some are saying, i still think its mostly to reduce heat to other components (yeah i know other components include air intake and cooling system but you get me) and increase 'efficency?' of the turbo.
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: turbo bags
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Sun, 08 May 2005 15:15
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dude, i when agree'd that it would keep engine temps down, i was refering to the temp under the bonnet created by heat soak. my mistake.
and anyways, it would help to keep the engine temp down, less heat soak=lower temp.
im not offended because you didn't really correct me anyways, cuz all i basically said is that it lowered heat and increased efficiency, which is all your saying.
anyways i dont want this simple question to turn into a bitchfest. so chris, i hope there is some useful info here.
strober: coke bottle dosen't distort, tried and tested, and it works exactly the same as a proper one.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Mon, 09 May 2005 06:50
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no bitchfight, all is good
lets just agree that a turbo bag prob does more good than harm
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: turbo bags
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Mon, 09 May 2005 09:37
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I have heat wrapped and turbo bagged my car (it doesn't run yet though )
but anyway, i know loads of people that do these mods. i think it's brought on by big turbo's in small engine bays and the heat soak caused.
I dont doubt that the 8 sec rx3 mentioned doesn't run a turbo bag, but it only see's 8 secs of use and only has to stop once 
if it was on a street car where it runs for hours at a time, you'd think that brake fluid etc. would be pretty cooked
for the record the cars i speak with these mods have never had a premature turbo failure or the likes.
I hope that helps
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: turbo bags
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Mon, 09 May 2005 13:07
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can any1 pm me where to buy theses im after 2 for the stock 1JZGTE turbo's unless someone has 2 to sell off???, pm only thanks
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Mon, 09 May 2005 13:46
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Don't you have a heatshield?
I don't know if they make them that small?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Tue, 10 May 2005 00:49
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Chris-considering you are using a big blower, wrapping the turbo and runners will drop the boost threshold of the system. The setups that get fried by wrapping are those which already glow red without a bag/shielding. Once you bag them up they get even hotter and exceed design temps.
Cooling the engine bay is a useful side-effect, but the response increases are mainly due to keeping heat in the exhaust gases-not by cooling the engine bay.
Make sure you insulate the runners as well. Retaining the heat in such a large blower set-up can drop the boost threshold by hundreds of RPM depending on the arrangement. If your manifold has a large surface area start there. Setting that side of things up well will allow you to select a lower stall speed on your converter and hence higher efficiency in the deep end (ie-more MPH-you’ll be over 120mph for sure!!!)
Take it easy mate
Sean
PS-Keep in mind that metal is an infra-red mirror. Ie, most effective is a shiny heat shield with insulation on the outside.
Put a small heat shield on and then bag it and you've got the best of both worlds.
The metal reflects the radiated heat back at the turbo and the insulation reduces the rate at which heat absorbed by the shield is lost out into the engine bay. (do this in 2 layers and it's even better, etc)
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: turbo bags
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Wed, 18 May 2005 04:41
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Just found this on another site. Interesting.
| Quote: |
ey guys, thought i would just mention a problem iv'e just had using one of these turbo bags.
Yesterday after a cruise, a sudden exhaust noise started coming out from around the engine bay, so naturally i thought i blew a gasket or cracked manifold ect...
After letting it cool down, i had a quick look and couldnt see nothing obvious, so i removed my turbo bag(wich was xtr btw), and thats when i see the problem straight away.
the gasket blew away from the turbo-dump pipe section, looking at it more closely, i found that my dump pipe flange was warped! wich in turn caused this gasket to blow away.
So, the bag would be so effective, that it kept all that heat under it and in turn warped my flange from all that heat and the flange is fairly thick(12mm at least).
Now i need another flange and gasket
After i fix the problem, i will be going with either coating of the housing or stainless steel cover(probably the later).
So just a heads up for any1 thinking going this way
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