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ae86 slide
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Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 10:10 Go to next message
I am planning on seam riveting my AE86 and wanted to hear from someone who has done it before or knows which seams in particular are important to do, also if there is anything else i should know before i get the job started. Pics would be great if anyone has them

[Updated on: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:12]

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Cool1
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Why rivet when you can weld which would give 200% more structural support?
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
there is no such thing as seam riveting, you are just making things up.
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Cool1
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've seen people put rivets in the center of spot welds. It looks bling but serves no purpose Confused
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
except to weaken the joint?
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pro_k
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Its strange - But the Japanese enthusiasts do rivet the seams of cars. Have seen this on some AE86 imports. Guess its cheaper to do but a lot of work!

Shall try to put up some pics soon.

Guess you would rivet the obvious places that have a fair bit of flex. Wouldnt bother doing it for road though.
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HyDrA
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I would think it could only POTENTIALLY benefit in places that aren't welded, or the welds are weak from fatigue?

Still, it'd be better to just break out a welder.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sounds like a seriously bad idea to me, it wouldnt be the first time the japs have had a trend that is completely useless and stupid.
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allencr
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
why would anyone drill a structurally sound spot weld, and put in a pop-rivet, other then wanting to go backwards/weaker.

also, you'd have to get rivets that are steel AND HAVE a steel shank/pin(most aren't), or else it would really be useless.

[Updated on: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:30]

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EldarO
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
putting a rivet in the center of a spot weld will increase the joints resistance to breaking against shearing forces i.e. the two plates/surfaces sliding against each other.

plus, it looks bling.

these are the only purposes this would serve.... IMO.

Eldar.O.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EldarO wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 01:03

putting a rivet in the center of a spot weld will increase the joints resistance to breaking against shearing forces i.e. the two plates/surfaces sliding against each other.


I doubt that. Rivets are not that strong.
At a guess i think you would loose about 3/4 of the strength of the spot weld by drilling a hole in it and placing a rivet.
Bad idea.

Riveting between spot welds is a little more sane, but would still give crap all strength increase.

There is a reason why rally/track cars are seam welded... not rivited.

[Updated on: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:21]

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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M.W.P. wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 03:20

EldarO wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 01:03

putting a rivet in the center of a spot weld will increase the joints resistance to breaking against shearing forces i.e. the two plates/surfaces sliding against each other.


I doubt that. Rivets are not that strong.
At a guess i think you would loose about 3/4 of the strength of the spot weld by drilling a hole in it and placing a rivet.
Bad idea.

Riveting between spot welds is a little more sane, but would still give crap all strength increase.

There is a reason why rally/track cars are seam welded... not rivited.


Rally/track cars should not get seam welded at all. If you want do do a cheap job you stitch weld. If you want to do the job correctly, you fit a full cage.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seam riveting is good when you damage up your car and you have to straigtn it, just knock the rivets out with a chisel. But welding stiffenes the car,
Later on ill be doing this to, miging between spot welds.
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takai
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Tue, 10 May 2005 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cool1 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 07:48


Rally/track cars should not get seam welded at all. If you want do do a cheap job you stitch weld. If you want to do the job correctly, you fit a full cage.


I would be seriously iffy about just fitting a full cage without stitch welding. It is pretty likely that once you have a full cage that the minor amounts of flex in the car will break the stock spot welds holding the car together. Indeed ive seen a few cracks in the rear half of my car with the half cage but no stitch welding.

Needless to say ill be stitch welding quite soon now.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 00:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
takai wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 09:45

Cool1 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 07:48


Rally/track cars should not get seam welded at all. If you want do do a cheap job you stitch weld. If you want to do the job correctly, you fit a full cage.


I would be seriously iffy about just fitting a full cage without stitch welding. It is pretty likely that once you have a full cage that the minor amounts of flex in the car will break the stock spot welds holding the car together. Indeed ive seen a few cracks in the rear half of my car with the half cage but no stitch welding.

Needless to say ill be stitch welding quite soon now.

If you get a decent full cage fitted there will not be any stress loading on the body at all.
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Cool1
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 00:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Actually what I said wasnt fully correct. You still will have stress loading on the body, but not in any locations that will hurt any spot welds.
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gold28
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
So many opinions and so little facts.

Firstly rivets can be stronger than welds but not always. This will vary with things like hole preparation, edge distance, type of rivet etc.

The topic of drilling through spotwelds is interesting though. You can drill through them, install a rivet and have a strong joint given the above considerations. Unfortunately around the spot weld is a heat effected region where the metal has been tempered and is possibly a little more brittle than the nominal metal. Added to this is the fact that there could be some porosity in the weld, making it more brittle. putting a hole in it adds a little more stress concentration and you hace a likely crack initiation site. This stress concentration also increases depending on the type of rivet used and the condition of the hole.

Now I know that I haven't really helped but my opinion is that unless you can install good quality rivets (definitly not pop rivets) into a reamed hole, you are better off welding steel.

Oh and if you think that rivets will be cheaper than welding, try pricing some structural rivets and the equipment needed to install them.


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styler
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 00:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seam welding/stich welding seems the proper way of doing it as far as iv heard, pop riveting would be easier for the average car enthusiast but it seems like the same situation as the crimp or solder dilemma... ie its quick and easy or it takes a bit longer and is done properly.

also rivets are going to add up like crimps do when you have to buy hundreds of the things.

and all the rivets are going to be sticking out from behind Rolling Eyes i wouldnt drill out the spot welds to fit rivets
either. rivets can shear and also work themselves loose too.

well its quick its easy and it looks bling, like habibs stereo setup which burnt his car to the floor.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 May 2005 00:38]

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gold28
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 00:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Interesting you mentioned the solder/crimp argument cos in aviation, the preference is to crimp. The reasoning is that a lot of the cable used is aluminium core due to the weight of copper. Soldering the cable puts a hard spot in it and it ends up breaking easily. Hence they use crimps. They don't however buy the cheap nasty K-mart stuff though. Particularly on the smaller cables, the do tensile tests and the crimped joints are stronger than the cable.

Just though I would throw that in.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Considering all the facts, fitting a decent full cage would probably work out not much more costly then stich welding aswell.
A cage is roughly worth 3k.
But then how much labour time would be involved in stripping paint and seam sealer from the areas you want to weld. Then the labour time welding the areas and then more labour to go over the weld with some rust inhibitor?
And thats after you get the car all jacked up and in a position where there is no stress on the body in the first place.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gold28 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 10:45

Interesting you mentioned the solder/crimp argument cos in aviation, the preference is to crimp. The reasoning is that a lot of the cable used is aluminium core due to the weight of copper. Soldering the cable puts a hard spot in it and it ends up breaking easily. Hence they use crimps. They don't however buy the cheap nasty K-mart stuff though. Particularly on the smaller cables, the do tensile tests and the crimped joints are stronger than the cable.

Just though I would throw that in.

Thats even more interesting. When I do my contracting for the military, they prefer crimp and then solder on all equipment when possible.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 01:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Well my cage is certainly structurally sound. I could envision a little bit of issue with my method of chipping out the deadening.
Either way though, if you are going to the effort of installing a full cage, I daresay that you will also be chipping out the deadening. From there it is only a simple step to stitch weld the car.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
There should be no deadening on any areas where a cage would be afixed.
And when I take above about cages, i'm talking about 19 point CAMS/ANDRA approved cages! Not the cheap and nasty 6 point rubbish things.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duh. Just because i own a sprinter doesnt make me a dumbarse.

A fully welded in cage shouldnt theoretically cause structural stress, rather it should reduce it. However on a 21yo chassis which is subjected to the stresses and pressures of racing, cracks will undoubtably develop in the spot welding.

My arguement is based upon the fact that all the prep work will have already been completed in order to install the cage, the stitch welding should be done as a matter of course.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 02:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
*shakes head*

What on earth are some of you guys on?

Riveting is a BAD idea. Seam welding in the form of stitching is very good to do for any car, especially one that is used in competition. Having a roll cage of not, it's still a good thing. Saying that a cage takes all the load is a huge generalisation indeed! The only cage that I know of that'll do that is one that goes through the firewall and to the suspension points, so basically the car is a spaceframe chassis with metalwork to give it shape. There's not a lot of cages like that.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 02:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Sherwood wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 12:18

The only cage that I know of that'll do that is one that goes through the firewall and to the suspension points, so basically the car is a spaceframe chassis with metalwork to give it shape. There's not a lot of cages like that.

This in my mine is the only real cage there is. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
With the cages we fit it would be possible for you to remove the doors, roof, and all other paneling and the ca will be still fully structural.
If you get a cage fitted and you still need to do stitch welding it just proves the cage is not doing what it is designed to do.
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opiate
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 02:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ok i'll be blunt.

drilling a hole in a metal makes it a shitload weaker. it doesn't matter what you put there afterwards, you've taken that sections' strength and thrown it right out of the window. that's why car manufacturers spot weld, instead of bolting or riveting the shit together.

if you want to stiffen it up, you can either add more spot welds, stitch weld it (it's the most foolproof way) or seamweld. regardless of what you do, do some calculations first, please. welding heats up the metal a LOT and that can alone weaken it a great deal. (unless you TIG it...)

drilling a hole out, and riveting it, will do jackshit. honestly.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 03:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think most are a little mixed up on the rivetting idea (or I am). The technique I have seen is to take a length of chassis seam which is spot welded and drill a hole halfway between the spot welds and rivet there. So the spotwelds remain untouched and just a bunch of rivets are added in between where the two sheets of metal were not previously connected.

It may still be a waste of time, but I think would be MUCH better than drilling out the spotwelds.

Hen
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message

id say its time for a poll : rivets vs welding

yeah miltary and aviation use crimps but not kmart ones lol, they need the specialized crimping tools not the usual common ones so iv heard. they are really good but cost loads more.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 May 2005 05:13]

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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 06:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gold28 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 10:35

Unfortunately around the spot weld is a heat effected region where the metal has been tempered and is possibly a little more brittle than the nominal metal. Added to this is the fact that there could be some porosity in the weld, making it more brittle. putting a hole in it adds a little more stress concentration and you hace a likely crack initiation site. This stress concentration also increases depending on the type of rivet used and the condition of the hole.



the center of the spot weld will not contribute a huge amount to the weld strength since it is a small area compared to the rest of it.. it does depend on the size of the hole tho (as a proportion of weld area).

spot welding when car is made is usually very good... since the metal is clean.. much cleaner than you will ever get now (maybe a full dip would work but then you lose all rustproofing)

oh and the HAZ is more likely 'annealed' rather than 'tempered' Wink... then again, if the 'shit content' of the metal is high than you could get some brittle phases forming.. not likely to be carbide/cementite tho due to the low carbon content of the steel...

aaanyway... just fit a full tube chassis Razz
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
takai wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 12:14

Duh. Just because i own a sprinter doesnt make me a dumbarse.




LOL, Quote of the week i think Laughing Laughing Laughing
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ae86 slide
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 08:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wow guys we've gotten way off track and a little emotional about this topic, i don't know were all this talk of roll cages came from.
anyway the only reason i was thinking of doing this is because i saw a few pictures of Hibino Tetsuya and Ken Satoh from D1 with rivets along joins in there cars and upon closer inspection it seems they have dodged the welds and only riveted around them. check it out in issue 5 of drift battle magazine.
Thats why i assumed it was done to increase chassis stiffness. but thanks for all your opinions. If anyone is a welder or engineer or something were it is there job to know about this stuff could you please give me a definitive answer.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ae86 slide wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 18:07

If anyone is a welder or engineer or something were it is there job to know about this stuff could you please give me a definitive answer.

I can give you a phone number of an engineer that will tell you exactly what I have posted.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
well considering rivets hold airplanes and stuff together i dont rekon it could hurt for chassis strengthening, at least ive done it to my car.....now i rekon every one is confusing the rivets to be a replacement for spot welding it...ie where the panels are spot welded together you drill just through the first top panel and then fill it up with weld.....very hard to do with out bending your chassis as you are taking all the sucuring mounts out, so you would need a chassis rack to get it done properly, so then theres me(and alot of other japanese fellas) we dont have chassis racks so reinforce it as per....

http://www.fr33z3.net/starions/reinforcment_of_strut_towers.jpg

now if you look the standard factory spot welds that hold the chassis together remain....so you arnt at all effecting the original strength, just adding to it.......make sense? i only drilled one hole at a time and it seems to have worked out pretty good.......and ive seen lots of jap 86's that have had this done.....
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Okay, remind me never to come near your car.

As for the cages issue, the entire point of the cage is to absorb structural impact in case of an accident. Not to further brace the car. Infact some classes even rule out bracing via the cage, notably IPRA.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 08:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think you chose the wrong words there. A cage is not meant to absorb anything. The car around the cage is meant to do all the absorbing while the cage stops the car collapsing on the passengers.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:46]

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takai
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 08:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nah, would have helped more if i was thinking rather than just typing.

I was trying to say that the cage's purpose is to protect the occupants rather than stiffening the car. Anyway this is all completely off topic. Im too occupied with other things to post properly.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
takai wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 18:12

Okay, remind me never to come near your car.



and can you give me a reason why?
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
who r u ninja? what colour 86 u got?

do u know any of the other sa 86 crew?
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ninja_86 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 19:25

takai wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 18:12

Okay, remind me never to come near your car.



and can you give me a reason why?

Dont you remember the scene in fast and furious where the rivets started poping out of the floor pan???
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chances are you prolly never have seen my 86....and no dont really know any of the 86 crew from sa....

love the fast and furious joke!
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think you and missing the point of avation rivets , most have a time or life which after that they are not holding together panels at there full strength . They are inspected and replaced by qualified person , how you inspect a rivet has got me stuff but thats what happens .

How much do you really think that you need or will be able to tell any difference after welding , riveting , whatever you use . You would have to have the rest of the car set up so well to tell any change , its a old chassis yes . But how much stress are you really going to put it though ? is it going to spend thousands of k's on the track , is it really worth the time ?

I love seeing these picture of people impressions where they think the ae shells have areas which need reinforcing . Most of the worst stressed and sometimes cracked ae i have seen come from japan , most have spring rates which you would have to have no brains left due to the constant jarring been worst that a boxing match . The areas they come apart are at the panel joints , not the factory spot welded area and sealed areas { the factory welds must be ok } , and i have never seen one cracking around the strut towers . Why go to all the hassle there when you are going to be running a strut bar to dissipate the stress to the other tower and the firewall anyway .

As far as cages , there only the ex group a car here that has a cage that reinforces the body to become one stress member . All the bolt in and home made jobs look so overbuilt that there weight would be a huge factor if you where to try to competitively race one of those cars . Once again if the cage doesn't reinforce the suspension points and is correctly tied the the shell then its really just for the safety of the passengers , not to create a stiffer body .

Heres a good link to start you with :

http://www.rollcages.com.au/index.htm
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ninja_86 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 19:39


love the fast and furious joke!


Its not a joke.
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
takai wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 19:40

ninja_86 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 19:39


love the fast and furious joke!


Its not a joke.


so you rekon my car is gonna fall apart?
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 19:33

I think you and missing the point of avation rivets , most have a time or life which after that they are not holding together panels at there full strength . They are inspected and replaced by qualified person , how you inspect a rivet has got me stuff but thats what happens .



i think your missing my point as well, i know i havent used aircraft grade rivets, and the rivets i have used are not holding together panels by themselves, the standard factory spot welds remained i have only reinforced the seams......
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ShiRi
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 20:03



I love seeing these picture of people impressions where they think the ae shells have areas which need reinforcing . Most of the worst stressed and sometimes cracked ae i have seen come from japan , most have spring rates which you would have to have no brains left due to the constant jarring been worst that a boxing match . The areas they come apart are at the panel joints , not the factory spot welded area and sealed areas { the factory welds must be ok } , and i have never seen one cracking around the strut towers . Why go to all the hassle there when you are going to be running a strut bar to dissipate the stress to the other tower and the firewall anyway .




lol thats cause its jdm tight yo... its gotta be good cause the japs do it. It's sorta the same with removing sound deading... i find it hard to believe that anyone would notice the 15kg weight u remove on a 86 thats not got a insane suspension setup. I agree with you a lot in the fact you wouldn't notice any benefit in such a overkill setup unless ur car is doing serious hours on the track and is pushing a high HP level that ur worried about stress on ur chassis... there would be about 5% of people on this forum who would fall into such a category. Same goes for removing sound deadening. You would benefit more from replacing ur bushes or buying a strut brace.
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opiate
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fkn alright i'll be blunt again

planes arent held together by rivets. their nonstructural panels are held in place by rivets. bit of a difference.

that rivetted up strut tower area would be completely shagged by doing that.

what they've basically done is increase stress concentrations where there wouldn't normally be any. it weakens the whole surrounding area, even though the original welds are intact. it'd make sense if you knew it was going to fail and you wanted it to fail in a particular spot. for example, putting a magnesium rod in your mild steel hot water boiler so it rusts there and not on the boiler

fact of the matter is, it's a waste of time.

yes, you can rivet your panels on if you want. no, your car wont do 450kmh, so yes, you can probably make do with the standard OE panel screws.

weld it if you have to.
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ninja_86
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
opiate wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 22:14


that rivetted up strut tower area would be completely shagged by doing that.


so is anyone going to give some actually facts on why they think my car is going to fall apart? and how it doesnt acctually reinforce it??????
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ed_ma61
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
holes = BAD

figure the rest of from there. end of story
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improvedae86
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://www.reubengathright.com/jpg/ricers/TheFasta ndtheFuriousComic.htm

Sorry its not related , maybe Laughing
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ed_ma61
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Wed, 11 May 2005 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://www.reubengathright.com/jpg/ricers/TheFastandtheFuriousComic_files/8.jpg
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gearb0x
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think your missing the point, those rivets are only usefull in holding cheap sheds together (and even then they are highly suspect) Ive seen them pull through sheet metal with little force.

And even if they did strengthen the join, think about ur front end come crash time.. your front end is now full of speed holes, which weaken the structual integrity of the sheet metal itself, now more likely to crumple easier
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rob_RA40
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rsturzen/rivetdanger1.jpg
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takai
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rob_RA40 wrote on Thu, 12 May 2005 10:52

*insert mechanic kittah here*


Hahahaha. I almost wet my pants. Laughing Evil or Very Mad
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improvedae86
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laughing Now thats some funny shit there Rob
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EvilJack
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 01:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
haha rob, always learn from the kitteh!!

http://insertdomainnamehere.com/misc/toldya.jpg
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Arch
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roflmao!! go the mechanic kitteh!
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Norminator
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 20:03

I think you and missing the point of avation rivets , most have a time or life which after that they are not holding together panels at there full strength . They are inspected and replaced by qualified person , how you inspect a rivet has got me stuff but thats what happens .


caught up with a friend who is an airframe engineer, one weekend a couple of months ago, while he was at work replacing composite panels in a helicopter... looked to me like a big part of testing a rivet was tapping it with the blunt end of a screwdriver?!! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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opiate
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yeah.

by drilling a hole out for the rivet, you're taking away metal that could be resisting shear or tensile forces.
as in, the forces are they diverted to the metal that's still left.

hence it's weaker. makes sense eh?
welding "adds" metal. riveting takes it away.
assuming the UTS's are the same, the more metal, the better.

ok?

ps the kittie knows.
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ninja_86
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Re: Seam riveting an AE86 Thu, 12 May 2005 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
so i take it every one here is speculating and no one has acctually tried it....so i guess it is kinda like telling someone how to do an engine conversion that you have never done
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