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Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
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Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 07:58
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heard good things about this fuel and am keen to run some, anybody know where you can get it?
also with petrol prices climbing, i was thinking it might be worthwhile to buy a 44 gallon frum of it and fill her up at home?
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 08:09
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Hi,
I thought AvGas was only 100octane - not much more than your 98 you can get at the servos. However, I think the quality control of Avgas would be better than that for normal petrol - especially after the huge fiasco a few years ago which stuffed up a lot of plane engines.
And, I don't think you can hoard 44gallons of petrol at your home. I think there's a limit, like a jerry-can size or so, but not a large 44 gall container full of petrol. If you live on a farm or soemthing you can do it, but not in suburbia.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 08:10
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I think it's about $2 a litre
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 08:25
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Correct me if im wrong but avgas is also leaded. Legal implications on that one.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 08:29
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yeah avgas is leaded
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 09:05
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Yes avgas is leaded so it will root your cat converter if you have one.
You cant buy avgas if you dont have a licence to do so.
You wont notice much difference at all.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 09:55
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yup - what cool1 said - specific cams licence/permit thingo required to buy avgas for competition events.
there are race fuels with higher octane ratings (e.g. better resistance to detonation, slower burn speed, etc) than avgas anyway - just expect to pay extremely high dollars.
btw - avgas is only 100 octane rating (i think) - you're better off buying BP or other PuLP fuel thats around the 96/98 mark
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 10:01
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efl turbomax is supposed to be good i hear it has a 104.5 or something like that ron rating they used to use it in the old f1 turbo cars and they have switched from avgas in the ARC to elf turbomax but it doesnt come cheap at nearly $5 a ltr but i thinks it would be better than avgas
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Location:
Adelaide, South Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 12:20
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Officially avgas is rated form 100-120 octane. Though most places only have 100octane. As others have stated it is leaded and thus will stuff up your cat. (Pet perve, why can planes dump straight to the atmosphere, no cat or emissions crap, the same as 2 stroke motorbikes, in fact all motorbikes for that matter)
I also hear that avgas can wear your engine out quicker, as it burns at a higher temp.
Cheers
Jordan
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Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 13:06
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go to BP and order 20l of toluene, and mix a bit of that shit into every tank of petrol. work out the ratios right and it'll give you like 102RON.
a fair bit cheaper than 5$/l too... and safer than avgas.
toluene's one of the main ingredients in all those ricebarn octane boosters, but theres not enough in them
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 13:30
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I think that avgas is available in unleaded - this is dyed blue. I may be wrong but this is what I heard.
The last 44 of leaded avgas that I bought came at about $330, just on 12mths ago. Which is comparable to the spiralling cost of the (supposed) 98 octane premium.
I also believe that it burns cooler than the stuff that you buy at the pump (I have done no academic study of this). The green stuff is rated at 100 to 120 as previously stated. I have found with an old race car that even 30% to fuel makes a huge difference to detonation suppression.
If I could afford it, I would run either the elf turbomax or VP sport 105 unleaded.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 14:50
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| YelloRolla wrote on Thu, 19 May 2005 23:30 |
I think that avgas is available in unleaded - this is dyed blue. I may be wrong but this is what I heard.
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You're probably thinking of "low lead" AvGas. It still has shiteloads of lead though, way more than petrol ever did.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 22:47
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err if its for the T18 it wouldn't matter anyway cos it doesn't have a cat. I know someone that works at Bankstown airport and he fills up with AVGAS for free, its the blue stuff cos we had some in a can to clean tiles out the front of my sis's house, works wonders.
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Av Gas
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Thu, 19 May 2005 23:59
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Thanks for that. Man I just keep learning every day.
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Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 01:01
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ok, they are phasing out leaded avgas and low lead and no lead avgas is available, I also looked into the octane rating of the fuel, even tho the stuff I was buying was called BP100 avgas, it's actual octane rating was 109/118 depending on whether a rich or lean mixture was being run, 109 for lean 118 for rich, the stoicometric ratio was also about 15.4:1 as opposed to automotive fuels which is 14.7:1 which sort of gives you a little safety barrier if the engine runs a touch lean. The reason for the two octane ratings has to do with the way avgas is used in aircraft engines, when they are at altitude the will lean the motor off from inside the cabin to increase fuel economy, hence the two octane ratings and in the old days lots of lead....lots of lead to protect valve seats, valve faces, piston skirts etc my experience with this fuel has all been positive, avgas has some additives in it which keep the motor spotless, no carbon build up anywhere, if you ever take a motor apart that has been run on avgas you will find a very clean motor with a light grey coating on everything, I also found it superior to 98 octane fuel, better burning etc lots more ignition advance can be run etc etc
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Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 01:03
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STAY AWAY FROM TOLUENE, ITS HIGHLY CARCINOGENIC!!! thats why the concentrations in octane boosters is so low, if you get it on your skin it is absorbed immediately.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 01:45
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| 170bhp wrote on Fri, 20 May 2005 11:03 |
STAY AWAY FROM TOLUENE, ITS HIGHLY CARCINOGENIC!!! thats why the concentrations in octane boosters is so low, if you get it on your skin it is absorbed immediately.
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word on that! it's ultra bad for you....
as for avgas, yes it does have a higher octane rating, but that's not the whole story.. apparently it is designed to burn slower, ie slower flame front speed, due to the large bore, low rpm nature of most plane engines. so while it will resist detonation in your car motor, it may burn too slowly to be effective at making power at high rpm..
this is also the reason ppl need to run more advance with avgas.. give it time to actually burn  (or run higher compression to increase the compression temp and speed up the flame front that way)
Cya, Stewart
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 01:51
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| 170bhp wrote on Fri, 20 May 2005 11:03 |
STAY AWAY FROM TOLUENE, ITS HIGHLY CARCINOGENIC!!! thats why the concentrations in octane boosters is so low, if you get it on your skin it is absorbed immediately.
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Head Cancer?[/T&P Voice]
I would suggest that avoiding contact with some form of carcinogen or other is near impossible with our hobby... just try and avoid washing your hands in the stuff or drinking (syphoning) the stuff.
Other carcinogens you will probably deal with on a regular basis... lithium grease, petrol, degreaser, bog, MDF, hydrocarbon based oils etc.
[Updated on: Fri, 20 May 2005 01:52]
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 02:02
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yeah used motor oil is carcinorgenic so every time you check your oil and it comes in contact with skin you are exposd let alone working on the car. Apparently smkoing causes cancer to but it doesn't stop ppl form doing it.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 02:40
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I heard that breathing was carcinogenic as well.
You wont notice much difference from Avgas other than slightly higher opperating temps and smoother idling.
If you do get some and use it dont tell people because its major fines for running it.
Just run toulene its heaps easier to get than Avgas.
I think that the amount of lead in Avgas is about 0.2 ppm or something like that.
As for the Green and Blue from memory one was low lead and the other normal i cant remember now so correct me if im wrong.
Cheers
Jas
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Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 03:52
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yeah good one!!! only trying to help, the stuff has been tested as being MUCH more carcinogenic than petrol! Oldcorollas, i think you will find ALL high octane fuels burn slow.....that's how they do their job of stopping detonation
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 09:10
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Just be aware that in NZ anyway old Avgas (past expiry date) is re-dyed and sold as "race gas" for more than you can buy avgas for.
Callum
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Av Gas
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Fri, 20 May 2005 11:07
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I have a 40 gallon drum out back full of it! straight from the airport. So it must be fine to have it in suburbia?
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Location:
Adelaide, South Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Av Gas
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Sat, 21 May 2005 01:45
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| 170bhp wrote on Fri, 20 May 2005 10:31 |
when they are at altitude the will lean the motor off from inside the cabin to increase fuel economy.
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While this is partially true, the real reason is that as altitude increases, atmospheric pressure drops, thus less Oxygen to burn. The mixtures are leaned off to keep the A/F ratio in a desirable range, and not have the motor running too rich. Fuel is not leaned off like this in turbocharged air craft engines, as the turbocharger keeps air pressure constant.
Jordan
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