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oldcorollas
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anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 01:17 Go to next message
rather than retype a good explanation..
http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone.asp?articleZon eID=92
Cya, Stewart
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EVOSTi
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 03:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
without going to that link i think it would cost too much money and be way to involving for the average enthusiast to convert an engine to miller cycle. i know people have spoken of doing it to a 4agze, but dont know of anyone who actually had a crack at it.
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oldcorollas
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 03:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
higher compression, different cam profile... not that much different really..

the reduction in pumping losses would be good, but i suppose it is not so great for all out power... might be good for non-dyno-queens Wink
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NVD05X
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
how much is it to get totally custom ground cams made???

and as the gze charger doesnt make boost on idle how would it idle??? you'd have fuel and air pushing out the inlet if you didnt sort that out...
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EVOSTi
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
you just lock the clutch on the sc
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thechuckster
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stewart, your ealier thread and this together would suggest that you're considering bring back a high revving, low compression engine back to Oz - along with a screw compressor and a custom ground set of cams?

a bit heavy for carryon luggage? Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 17 May 2005 13:30]

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justcallmefrank
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Someone give me a wad of cash, a Motec, a 1GFE and I'll give it a try. You should be able to somewhat replicate it if you had full control over the vvti.
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oldcorollas
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
no no, we already have lots of low compression motors here to play with Wink

i'm just considering options, and am tired of the 4AGTE route (although not trying to take away from the awesome work people have been doing), and turbos are not my thing (as you would understand from driving around innereast/west sydney)..

the idea with miller cycle is to keep the high static compression amd lower the dynamic compression using a late closing inlet valve, which in a high boost app may also allow more air into the cylinder = best of both worlds Wink

also trying to discuss ideas outside the normal square... this is toymods after all Very Happy

although i did bring back 20kg of EFI gear from the US, unfortunately japan is not a great source of lysholm compressors.. only IHI make them there...

hmm, how far away from norway is sweden? might pick one up while i'm there Razz

[Updated on: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:19]

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justcallmefrank
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pssht, I thought the whole point of a Miller cycle was to have a higher static compression. The 10.0:1 compression of the 1GFE suits that just fine.
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oldcorollas
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
well, it's basically to reduce pumping losses that are incurred in your standard otto cycle engine, so you get better performance from a smaller motor, AND better fuel economy (like 10-15%?)... think of it as Otto-optimisation Wink



1GFE?
you send me your wad of cash, i'll bring you back a new Century Laughing

[Updated on: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:33]

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Norbie
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A new Century? That would have to be a big wad!

If you happen to find a crashed Century with engine intact, be sure to let me know. Smile
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rob_RA40
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Tue, 17 May 2005 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
V12 century are about $30-60k on www.goo-net.com

give it 5 or so years.
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justcallmefrank
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Wed, 18 May 2005 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Wed, 18 May 2005 07:09

If you happen to find a crashed Century with engine intact, be sure to let me know. Smile

*kicks Norbie*
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Norbie
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Wed, 18 May 2005 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Some things are never forgotten...
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justcallmefrank
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Wed, 18 May 2005 03:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
And never will be Wink
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M.W.P.
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Wed, 18 May 2005 05:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 18 May 2005 00:02

well, it's basically to reduce pumping losses that are incurred in your standard otto cycle engine, so you get better performance from a smaller motor, AND better fuel economy (like 10-15%?)... think of it as Otto-optimisation Wink



Strange.
The article talks about using a high comp engine, but closing the inlet cams late to artificially lower compression reducing pumping losses.
Not by running "true" low compression.

I wonder what difference it makes....

Actually, whats the difference between what you are suggesting oldcorollas over what is the lowering of compression and increase of boost on normal hi-po engines?

[Updated on: Wed, 18 May 2005 05:42]

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YelloRolla
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Wed, 18 May 2005 07:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M.W.P. wrote on Wed, 18 May 2005 15:39

oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 18 May 2005 00:02

well, it's basically to reduce pumping losses that are incurred in your standard otto cycle engine, so you get better performance from a smaller motor, AND better fuel economy (like 10-15%?)... think of it as Otto-optimisation Wink



Strange.
The article talks about using a high comp engine, but closing the inlet cams late to artificially lower compression reducing pumping losses.
Not by running "true" low compression.

I wonder what difference it makes....

Actually, whats the difference between what you are suggesting oldcorollas over what is the lowering of compression and increase of boost on normal hi-po engines?



Actually, "artificially" is a very poor choice of words for this. It refers to reducing the dynamic or true compression and there is nothing artificial about that.

The immediate differences that come to mind are better rod angularity (better geometry to make the squeeze), and a quicker rate of compression (more efficient compression) and lower compression temp (adiabatic efficiency), the article also suggests lower ignition temperatures.

Lower comp and higher boost aims to push the torque curve further up the rev range, the idea of the method described is to make better power in the realm where most engines live.

This is my understanding and I look forward to learning more as this thread strings along.

P.S Is there an echo in here? I seem to recall writing here somewhere before about later closing of the intake valve to reduce the dynamic comp?
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Norbie
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Wed, 18 May 2005 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I thought the major benefit of Miller cycle was a low compression ratio in conjunction with a high expansion ratio... something that's not possible with a conventional Otto cycle engine. Low compression engines can be boosted but have poor thermal efficiency because of their low expansion ratio. Miller cycle gives the best of both worlds.
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oldcorollas
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Wed, 18 May 2005 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zactly...

my guess is that for a given boost, you will have a slightly smaller 'effective capacity', but greater efficiency.... what better reason to run a few more psi Very Happy

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Dominic
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Wed, 18 May 2005 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprintex superchargers ar emade right here in WA.
i have seen their workshop.
mmmm so much supercharging goodness...

however- corky bells book supercharged! has a good section on the miller cycle and how to set it up etc with a supercharger.

cheers
Dom
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YelloRolla
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Fri, 20 May 2005 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thanks Norbie and oldcorollas, that maketh much sense indeed.
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Gleno28
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Sat, 21 May 2005 05:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sounds very cool, is something like this up and running from Mazda at the moment do you know?
Glen.
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oldcorollas
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Sat, 21 May 2005 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gleno28 wrote on Sat, 21 May 2005 15:32

Sounds very cool, is something like this up and running from Mazda at the moment do you know?
Glen.

i guess you didn't read the link in the very first post then Wink Very Happy
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Gleno28
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Sun, 22 May 2005 01:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ok, i guess i meant is it in mass production yet or is that engine still a prototype, couldn't find much more info on that site.
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Norbie
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Sun, 22 May 2005 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It was mass produced in the 90's, I don't think they make them any more though. It was in the Eunos 30X I think?
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justcallmefrank
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Sun, 22 May 2005 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Was in the Eunos 80(?) from memory. The 30X had a 1.8l V6 Razz
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YelloRolla
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Mon, 23 May 2005 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
it was released in the Eunos 800M. I think that the M stands for Miller cycle.
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justcallmefrank
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Re: anyone considered changing their turbo/SC to Miller Cycle? Mon, 23 May 2005 07:17 Go to previous message
Haha, damn missing zero...and M Razz
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