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Registered:
November 2002
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 Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 02:46
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I have been brought up to speed on how relays operate in my '+B1' thread, thanks for that.
Finally question is, when a relay energizes and the switch closes, does that switch need to have power going through it in order for the device on that circuit to operate ?
Or, does it draw that power from the other side of the relay, the one that is now energized and has closed the switch ?
I think my problem is that while the relay is clicking nicely when 12v is applied to it, and the circuit on the other side is closed - there is no power running through it so nothing happens.....
Your advice for this electrical idiot is appreciated.
Thanks.
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Location:
Rosanna, Melb
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 02:56
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Not sure exactly what you mean, but here are two points:
Even if your relay is clicking right the circuit it is controlling may still not be working. For example if you are looking at a fuel pump relay, the relay may click closed, but if the earth wire on the fuel pump is hanging free then the fuel pump wont run. Despite the relay working perfectly.
And the two circuits of a relay are totally isolated. You can have the switch closing and opening all you want, but unless you have power and a device (or earth and a device) connected to the switched output then it is pretty pointless.
Hope that's some help.
Hen
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 03:26
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Thanks guys - well done.
Henn, you got there first, by 2 minutes....and you have helped me work out why my S/C does not engage. While I have power to the energized side of the relay when the ECU says lets engage the SC, ('magnet' powers up - switch clicks shut) the switch side of the relay has a wire that goes to earth and a wire that goes to the S/C which does not carry any power, hence no SC engagement.
Beautiful !!!!
Thanks again.
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 03:41
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I didn't think they made idiot relays?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 03:51
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| stradlater wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 11:41 |
I didn't think they made idiot relays?
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Sorry, poor joke...
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 04:19
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| CrUZsida wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 13:51 |
| stradlater wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 11:41 |
I didn't think they made idiot relays?
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Sorry, poor joke...
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AHAHAAHAHAHA
GOLD!!11!!!!1!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 04:28
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Now, tell me this. You've identified which side of the relay is the magnetic/switch side. Now, have you checked the other side to see whether the earth is actually earthing properly and the other side is getting 12V? If not, can you work out where each of the connections is broken?
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 05:29
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Hey, easy on guys, it was supposed to be a lame joke.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 05:38
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I set myself up with the "Idiot Relay' subject - well done by me, and a top joke as well 
Now back to the subject:
JCMF, yes I did check the other side of the relay and found it had an earth wire (white/black stripe) that earthed, and a wire that goes to the S/C clutch (green w/white). At the S/C clutch there is a second wire, 1 inch long, that earths in the S/C housing.
Now, if I hook up that relay earth wire to power, when the relay closes power will go to the SC clutch which will earth by that short wire.
I did away with the relay, put its power from the loom plug direct to the SC, and then let the S/C clutch get activated (earthed) by its control wire from the ECU.
Got the engine warm, revved it up and yay !!!!!!!!!!! s/c engaged. Went for a spin, S/C works - yay !!!!!!! First time ever. Idiot grin on face to replace idiot relay.....
10 mins into drive S/C does not engage anymore - drive home, check CEL, get 22, found that the water temp sensor plug was loose and had fallen off, back on, another drive, no boost at all. Battery disconnected for a while, still no change, so I am thinking of making the S/C cabin switchable if the ECU is going to continue to not play the game.....and send the signal saying the S/C can be engaged. No CEL codes now, so I don't know what the ECU's problem is now...
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Location:
Perth,western australia
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 08:29
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mitch,
would the relay be the same as the one on my motor(1G-GZE gen 3?)?
i have the engine loom it just got cut at the firewall by the looks of it.
maybe you could swap mine in and see if that makes a diff??
i can drop it round sat morn /or you can come have a look if you like...
cheers
Dom
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Tue, 24 May 2005 11:58
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Dom,
Its very likely the same relay on your motor as well mate, and hopefully it was not hacked off like the other wires at the firewall.
And thanks for the offer too.
I will learn more by seeing the original loom in place on your motor, so please don't take it off, and I will try and get over to your house sometime this weekend.
Now that I have found my missing boost I need to work out what happened to make the ECU take it all away 
Cheers,
Mitch.
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Location:
Perth,western australia
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Wed, 25 May 2005 01:46
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no worries mate i will be home preety much all day sat so just give me a buzz.
cheers
Dom
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Wed, 25 May 2005 03:24
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| ra23celica wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 15:38 |
I set myself up with the "Idiot Relay' subject - well done by me, and a top joke as well
Now back to the subject:
JCMF, yes I did check the other side of the relay and found it had an earth wire (white/black stripe) that earthed, and a wire that goes to the S/C clutch (green w/white). At the S/C clutch there is a second wire, 1 inch long, that earths in the S/C housing.
Now, if I hook up that relay earth wire to power, when the relay closes power will go to the SC clutch which will earth by that short wire.
I did away with the relay, put its power from the loom plug direct to the SC, and then let the S/C clutch get activated (earthed) by its control wire from the ECU.
Got the engine warm, revved it up and yay !!!!!!!!!!! s/c engaged. Went for a spin, S/C works - yay !!!!!!! First time ever. Idiot grin on face to replace idiot relay.....
10 mins into drive S/C does not engage anymore - drive home, check CEL, get 22, found that the water temp sensor plug was loose and had fallen off, back on, another drive, no boost at all. Battery disconnected for a while, still no change, so I am thinking of making the S/C cabin switchable if the ECU is going to continue to not play the game.....and send the signal saying the S/C can be engaged. No CEL codes now, so I don't know what the ECU's problem is now...
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Umm, not sure if that was the best I idea hooking it up like that. How much current does the magnetic clutch try to sink? It may be too much for what I suspect is a piddly little gnd on the ECU?
Why not set it up with the relay? Its not rocket science as far as I can see....the SC has GND already, so you just want to switch 12v to it when the ECU gnd's the signal line...easy. 12v to once side of the relay (the one with the switch in it) should goto the SC, the SC already has its gnd so thats sorted. Then 12v to the little black box in the relay and the ECU line on the other end of the black box should make it all work....or am I missing something here?
Cheers
Wilbo
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Registered:
November 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Idiot Relay Question ?
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Wed, 25 May 2005 04:45
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Just go straight to battery and put a 30A fuse inline.
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Registered:
November 2002
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