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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2004
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tough 3tg
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Tue, 24 May 2005 11:03
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hey guys im starting the building of a reasonably tough 3tg. its for street use but itll hopefully see the track a fair bit too. with the 3t-c rods and crank what are areas that need to be looked at. full balance is already known.
should i have the crank stress relieved or not really nescessary?
work to rods? shot peen, linished etc?
am building it work well with a head and cams package ive just purchased. see below
"Yamaha stamped 2tg fully reconditioned head. It has new valve seats etc etc valves havent been changed but i had them double checked. It is a 11111-88260 so its the 'desirable' head. Its shims have been set and checked for high lift cams that have been built up and machined to aggressive specs, i think they are wade 584A grind ex 80.5 - 45 deg, advertised duration 305.5,duration at .050 - 259, lobe lift .427",Valve lift .415". Intake 48.5 - 77deg. "
also will vernier cam gears be needed to make the most of the engine? anyone gotten any made for a 3tg? experiences, prices etc??
Pistons? should i get forgies? or will the standard 3tc pistons hold up to a reasonable thrashing. ( remembering visits to tracks)
are there any other areas i should look at strengthening in the 3tg??
this will be an injected setup using the 88262 2tgeu efi manifold etc untill i can afford ITBs so will this manifold etc flow enough? im thinking yeah cause its no turbo motor. injector size. ive herd of 3s-ge injectors being used? will they flow enough?
for fueling im thinking just VL turbo fuel pump, some sort of pressure reg ( ideas??)
will i need bigger efi lines or will the standard lines from the 81 TE71 liftback be enough.
sorry for the length of this post but i thought id be better off getting it all outta the way in one go.
cheers for any help
craig
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: tough 3tg
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Tue, 24 May 2005 13:07
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work to rods? shot peen, linished etc?
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Peen and linish the rods. ARP bolts are available for 2T/3T rods.
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also will vernier cam gears be needed to make the most of the engine? anyone gotten any made for a 3tg?
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The existing cam gears allow for cam timing adjustment.
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Pistons? should i get forgies?
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ACL 3TC pistons should be fine. If you are spending money on forged pistons I'd recommend going to 89mm, as the price will not be significantly different.
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will this manifold etc flow enough? im thinking yeah cause its no turbo motor.
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On the contrary, manifold efficiency should be more important in an NA application, as there is no benefit of positive pressure to overcome flow inefficiencies. Having said that, if you can't afford ITB's, you can't afford them. End of story.
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injector size. ive herd of 3s-ge injectors being used? will they flow enough?
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There are calculators available on the internet which project fuel demands for an engine on the basis of VE, capacity, etc. Google search it. If the 2T-GEU injectors don't reach max duty cycle then you don't need to change injectors at all.
One glaring omission in all of this is which computer you intend to use.
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Location:
Perth,western australia
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: tough 3tg
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Wed, 25 May 2005 01:45
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going from 1.6lt to 1.8lt and then working it as well,i think you will need to go up.
3tgte injectors fit straight inplace of 2tgeu injectors in the 2tgeu manifold and will give a significant more flow etc.(being from a turbo motor aswell...)
but as suggested check it out,do some calculations and figure out as much as you can before splashing dollars around.
cheers
Dom
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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: tough 3tg
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Wed, 25 May 2005 04:50
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cheers semptermbersqual and dom. yeah i know the ecu is going to be the limiting factor. that will come when the engine is built and waiting to go in.
with those cams will the 10:1 ratio from acl 3tc pistons be enough or will i need to go higher?
"ACL 3TC pistons should be fine"
what does a set of these with rings usually set ppl back?
any ideas on the fueling side? regulator etc?
also what sorta rev range would i be looking at this engine running power in with those cams? im thinking pretty high looking at the duration.
cheers for all your help guys im learning heaps
craig
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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2004
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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2004
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: tough 3tg
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Wed, 25 May 2005 08:55
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Without reading everything above, I have a 3T-G, and I think I have the same Wade cams also. But mine is running on 40mm Solex carbies.
I just used a 3T block, bored to 86mm. New 3T-C pistons, 1mm over, with the exhaust valve relief machined to copy a 2T-G piston. Big cams, same as yours. Stock 3T-C rods and crank. Lightened flywheel, was a stock 2T or something machined back to about 6kg.
You can use the stock 2T-G cam sprockets. They work very well, and have about 4 or 5 different positions on them standard. You can drill more holes if you can't adjust it to what you want for some reason.
Dial in the cams! Don't go by the factory markings. You can change the lobe center angles between 100-110 degrees depending on where you want the power.
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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: tough 3tg
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Wed, 25 May 2005 09:42
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cheers for that johnny. i want the power range to be a lil lower seeing as how this will be driven on streets too. what sort of power is your package making and at what sort of revs?
1/4mile times? just curious
is it worth spending the money on forgies? how much of a hard time can standard 3tc pistons take?
also with boring the block should i go all out and have bored to 88.5 or a bit less to retain strength?
also a query regarding oil pumps. should i use a 3tgte oil pump? or is the 2tgeu one up to the task?
ive done some research on this but there aint much on them here.
apparently the 3tgte oil pump runs off a small shaft which runs off the dummy cam. then there is a plate over the dizzy hole cause the dizzy comes out from the head on 3tgte.
so my question is can you not use that small shaft but use a 2tgeu elec dizzy to drive the pump instead without any hassles?
would a 3tgte item supply to much pressure for my engine?
cheers for your help
craig
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: tough 3tg
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Wed, 25 May 2005 12:24
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I havn't had mine on a dyno as is. The way the cams are set it has good torque. I have carbies so things are a bit different. Often idles above 1000, but can get it down below 1000rpm if I try. It will put around town easy, but no power if I mash the throttle below 3000rpm. But if the engine is already singing at 3000rpm, I can open the throttle and LOTS of power (ok its not turbo or anything). It will rev to 8000rpm if I make it, but I have a small misfire at about 7500rpm and I'm not sure what that is yet. The way the motor is there is no need to go above 7500rpm really. There is potential for more rpm and power if fiddled with right. Havn't got propper 400m times, but from what I know it will do a 15 easy. You could get yours into the 14's with the right tyres and alot of tuning.
Don't worry about forged pistons. Just use 3T-C ones. Either 85, 85.5, or 86mm. But if your go big bore, like 88.5 or 89mm, you will need expencive pistons. The 3T-C ones will work out to be about 10:1 or 10.5:1 compression. But its up to you to measure and calculate yourself.
No need to stuff around with oil pumps in my opinion. just use what you got.
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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2004
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: tough 3tg
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Thu, 26 May 2005 12:48
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Just about any high pressure fuel pump will do fine. No need for a VL turbo pump or anything, just any pump from a EFI car. Its going to be less than 200hp. You just need a pump to make about 40psi, which is a normal efi fuel pump.
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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: tough 3tg
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Fri, 27 May 2005 08:37
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so does that mean i can use my standard regulator?
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: tough 3tg
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Fri, 27 May 2005 09:12
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You mean fuel regulator? The factory setup is to have a fuel pressure regulator on one end of the fuel rail, and a hose from that going to fuel return. I can't see why you wouldn't just use the standard setup. Normaly this will be at about 35-40psi I think.
Kits exist to bump the fuel pressure up to get more power out of standard injectors. But you are using 3T-GTE injectors on a non-turbo engine. I don't think you will max them out too easily.
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Location:
perth
Registered:
October 2004
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