| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 04:06
|
 |
Ok, I have sprayed the car in acrilic and on some of the panels the clear has gone on with a really heavy orange peel,on other parts the over spray of the clear has made it less shiny than the other areas which are like mirror...My question is,do I cut back the orange peel with wet n dry or just buff a bit heavier in those parts with the buffer?? also will the buffer bring up the dull parts aswell? If i have to cut back and respray the clear and do it again thats cool as I have heaps of it but what can I do to stop the overspray dull bits and orange peel?
Thanks
And yes I did a search but it was just ghey!!
|
|
|
Location:
devonport tas
Registered:
May 2005
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 04:33
|
|
ok, you should get a soft rubber or foam rubbin block and wet rub the car wit wet paper, if the peel is real thick and you put heaps of clear (4coats) use 1000 wet to take the topp off the heavy peel, then 1200, then dry a the section off you are working on and you will see that the top of the peel is dull and there are shiny dimples aswell, if you want a glassy smooth finish keep rubbung carefully till all the shiny bits are gone when you dry it off, it takes ages and make sure you dont go thru all the clear, then just buff it wit cutting compound and finshing cream, if you didnt put many coats of clear on just block it off wit 800 wet untill all the shiny bits are gone and put a few more coats of clear on. you can also face off the dull bits and buff them too, dont worry when it dries real dull, the buffer brings it bach up! 
|
|
|
Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 05:07
|
|
The orange peel is caused by oil or other contaminants under one of your coats.
Youll have to remove the coat that started the peel... if you just smooth out the ripple and re-spray, itll probably happen again.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 05:08
|
|
What Krem said!, but I would be using 2000 grit, after the initial knock off with 1000/1200, then use 3000, yep it is available, it will save you a heap of time with the cutting compound. I use a compound called G3,(available at Auto Paint Suppliers) not too harsh, and brings up a really good gloss.
The G3 with lambswool buff, will give a coarse cut.
G3 with hard foam pad, lighter cut, and
G3 with soft foam pad, final polish before swirl remover.
If you are going to re do the clearcoat, chase the wet line, ie. never start in the middle of the bonnet or any other panel. If you use a 70 to 90% thinners in your last topcoat, you will avoid the dry overspray phenomenem.
(EDIT) MWP just jumped in with that load of horse pucky. Orange peel is not usually caused by oil, but by wrong gun pressure(you need finer atomisation, or more thinner), and too heavy a build.
cheers Chuck
[Updated on: Tue, 24 May 2005 05:11]
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 06:51
|
|
| M.W.P. wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 15:07 |
The orange peel is caused by oil or other contaminants under one of your coats.
Youll have to remove the coat that started the peel... if you just smooth out the ripple and re-spray, itll probably happen again.
|
i was told that the orange peel effect was used by factories to hide imperfections in the paint work... you can't get a pure reflection, so you can't see defects...
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 08:04
|
|
Thanks heaps guys!! I only sprayed it on Sunday so I guess its best to only start with the wet n dry this weekend or early next week?
It only seems to be on the bonet and the back part of the TA22 along the sides,the doors seem fine though one is a little less shiny than the other  I think the buff will even out the shine on the other dull areas but after I cut it back and the clear is all dull,will the buff bring it back to the high shine the rest of the car is or after I cut it back should i give it another really thinned down coat of clear...Sorry for the noob questions but it actually came up really well and I cant bare to leave it half done...
Cheers
Nath
|
|
|
Location:
Baulkham Hills, Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 11:37
|
|
| riceburna73 wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 14:06 |
Ok, I have sprayed the car in acrilic...
|
ACRYLIC? OH NO!! There's ur first mistake *(learns from experience)*
|
|
|
Location:
Baulkham Hills, Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Baulkham Hills, Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Coffs Harbour
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 14:51
|
|
oooo triple post, must be for effect. . .
I wish i had of read this thread before i sprayed the clear on my old kermit, would have helped a bit. . .
|
|
|
Location:
The Hills District
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 16:55
|
|
| AEeightysix wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 21:39 |
| riceburna73 wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 14:06 |
Ok, I have sprayed the car in acrilic...
|
ACRYLIC? OH NO!! There's ur first mistake *(learns from experience)*
|
unfortunately for you he's right. understandably though, acrylic is alot easier to spray especially for a backyard job. hmm... as for the paint the way it has gone orange peely and dull is from the spraying as the orange peel is just the way paint goes and the dullness is the paint itself im pretty sure.
id suggest maybe next time prep the car yourself and then pay a spray painter to just spray it for you. this way youll save money and end up with a good finish...providing you can eith panel beat or youre good with the Bog.
|
|
|
Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 24 May 2005 21:00
|
|
| M.W.P. wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 15:07 |
The orange peel is caused by oil or other contaminants under one of your coats.
Youll have to remove the coat that started the peel... if you just smooth out the ripple and re-spray, itll probably happen again.
|
yes, the panel/s to be sprayed must not of been prepped properly. from past experience the paint will orange peel again until you rub back and prepare the area correctly.
the dull bits are most probably areas that you didnt get on as 'wet' as the others. they should buff up well though.
| Quote: |
ACRYLIC? OH NO!! There's ur first mistake *(learns from experience)*
|
dunno why people pick on acrylic paints, i use it and like it. best for the DIY'er to i rekon. it's easy use, easy to fix up bodgies and can look damn good when you do it right.
|
|
|
Location:
Batemans Bay, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 00:41
|
|
yeh I was under the impression that acrylic paints were easier to work with than enamel... esp for a first timer/DIY ect.
(This is what my spray painting guide/book says anyway)
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 01:30
|
|
| AEeightysix wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 21:39 |
| riceburna73 wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 14:06 |
Ok, I have sprayed the car in acrilic...
|
ACRYLIC? OH NO!! There's ur first mistake *(learns from experience)*
|
There always has to be one dickhead post in an otherwise informative thread thankyou for getting our quota out of the way early.. I dont think the orange peel is from contaniments as I went nuts with the grease n wax remover but when spraying the sides It was a tight squeese and the gun was pretty close,Anyways im pretty happy with it for a first time job and especially for a car that was in the shape it was when I got it,I must say I dont know what people are having a winge about when it comes to acrylic, the car has a MIRROR finish from a backyard job that has cost me under 400 to do,what else do you want for 400??
Anyways If we can keep this thread away from the 2pac vs acrylic debate that would be good, and if anyone can still answer me the question as to when I should start cutting the thing back that would be good aswell..
|
|
|
Location:
MELBOURNE
Registered:
December 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 01:41
|
|
Hey man
Can't answer when you should cut back but I was just wondering what primer you used? And AEeightysix whats wrong with acrylic? Whats so bad about it?
Thanks
Troy
|
|
|
Location:
Bathurst
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 02:41
|
|
This link doesn't deal specifically with orange peel - but gives a good rundown of how to spray your car.
My experience with orange peel was simply too much paint per coat. I found more coats of lighter spray worked much better.
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/24820/
|
|
|
Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 02:51
|
|
enamel noooooo... nooo... nooo...
2pac is for the workshops
acrylic is for the enthusiast
well that seems to be the go anyway, most people are deciding between 2pac and acylic, 2pac is a better paint overall but it has to be sprayed right first time with the proper equipment whereas acrylic is harder to get it to look as good as 2pac but it is more forgiving and needs no special equipment.
|
|
|
Location:
Bathurst
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 03:23
|
|
2 Pack Enamel also contains isocyanates which are extremely toxic. As far as I know it is illegal to use at home. Thats why spray shops have spray booths with expensive filtration systems and and the painters wear full body suits.
If acrylic gives you a finish you're happy with then use it.
|
|
|
Location:
Baulkham Hills, Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 03:26
|
|
| riceburna73 wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 14:06 |
the car has a MIRROR finish from a backyard job that has cost me under 400 to do,what else do you want for 400??
|
Just trying to inform you guys ok, dont have a winge 
The reason i posted this is that i sprayed my car in acrylic over three years ago, and it was schmicko off the gun and after a good buff it did have a mirrored reflection.
Even though i prepared the surface to perfection (spent weeks on it) after three years the surface now deteriorates and flicks off in places.
And yes, it did cost me under $400, it was a backyard job as well, so my sugestion to someone who wants a nice spray for the short time is to do it your way. But for a long-lastin show car look use 2-pac 
The acrylic should be cut back after 1 night in the shed to dry properly.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 03:41
|
|
I've been spraying my celica over a period of a few weeks with Acrylic and it has come out really well. Let every few coats dry over a few days and you'll come out with a lot tougher job than just putting it all on at once. I'm using some AAA thinners with some retarder aswell so that the paint flows that little bit longer, and also eats into the last few coats. Just make sure you have a decent amount of primer under there, otherwise the thinners will go straight through and can react with whatever might be underneath the primer. If unsure, use some sealer.
2Pac is not the thing to use in a back yard. Acrylic is easy to work with after spraying, especially if a few little spots come up that need to be fixed. Its also easier to take your time on. Maintain the finish and keep it out of the sun, it'll definately last.
Good luck!
|
|
|
Location:
devonport tas
Registered:
May 2005
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 06:25
|
|
ok first, orange peel AINT caused by contaminats and oil, if there was any of this shit on the surface when you painted it if would have fried up and reacted in big fish eyes etc, the only thing wrong wit acrylic paint is that uder dull light and fluro you can see the sand scratches and it also scratches easier, it also shrinks back into the repairs itf it aint prepped properly!
2pak can be used in backyard jobs, i have used it a few times, altho it costs alot more, it does last longer and gives a better finish off the gun but acrylic when used properly and you know a few tricks can give you just as good a finish but will never last aslong as 2pak
when using acrylic, each coat of paint you put on add more thinners and more air, the last coat should be atleast 1 part paint- 2.5 parts thinners, this will flatten out the peel so its easier to buff, it wont look as good off the gun but you should never try to get acrylic glossy off the gun unless its somewhere that cant be buffed, the buffing process will put the shine on it, it also helps a bit if between coats you tack rag off the overspray.
oh another thing, 2pak is more forgiving than acrylic, as it dont shrink back into itself after it is painted, i use 2pak primer in every job i do, its ok to use 2pak under acrylic, but NOT over acrylic as the thinners gets trapped when the 2pak hardens and then you have problems!
hope this helps ya out.
krem
[Updated on: Wed, 25 May 2005 06:30]
|
|
|
Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 07:54
|
|
| krem wrote on Wed, 25 May 2005 16:25 |
ok first, orange peel AINT caused by contaminats and oil, if there was any of this shit on the surface when you painted it if would have fried up and reacted in big fish eyes etc, the only thing wrong wit acrylic paint is that uder dull light and fluro you can see the sand scratches and it also scratches easier, it also shrinks back into the repairs itf it aint prepped properly!
2pak can be used in backyard jobs, i have used it a few times, altho it costs alot more, it does last longer and gives a better finish off the gun but acrylic when used properly and you know a few tricks can give you just as good a finish but will never last aslong as 2pak
when using acrylic, each coat of paint you put on add more thinners and more air, the last coat should be atleast 1 part paint- 2.5 parts thinners, this will flatten out the peel so its easier to buff, it wont look as good off the gun but you should never try to get acrylic glossy off the gun unless its somewhere that cant be buffed, the buffing process will put the shine on it, it also helps a bit if between coats you tack rag off the overspray.
oh another thing, 2pak is more forgiving than acrylic, as it dont shrink back into itself after it is painted, i use 2pak primer in every job i do, its ok to use 2pak under acrylic, but NOT over acrylic as the thinners gets trapped when the 2pak hardens and then you have problems!
hope this helps ya out.
krem
|
Best bit of info in this thread.
If people can't get good finishes with acrylic, then they aren't doing things right!
Give it at least a week before you buff it, if you can, 2 weeks - 1 month. That way you know it's hardened up nicely.
I got a bit of orange peel on the first car I sprayed, that was due to not having enough thinners in the clear, it still rubs and buffs out, but takes a lot more work to do so.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 25 May 2005 08:36
|
|
Thanks everyone especially krem for your help,I have decided to cut back the orange peel parts and will then put some really thinned out coats of clear on as I have noticed some areas around the car that I have missed..
Ill get some updated pics up in the members rides section under riceburna's calica #2
Cheers
Nath
|
|
|
Location:
devonport tas
Registered:
May 2005
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Thu, 26 May 2005 03:40
|
|
no worries, if ya need anymore help just sing out
krem
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
July 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Thu, 26 May 2005 04:33
|
|
Just in agreement with the above post, "orange peel" is not caused by a dirty/oily surface. it is usually caused by incorrect or excessive application of paint, where the paint is not flowing correctly.
The effect you see when the prepared surface is dirty or oily is either "fisheyes" or a sort of shrink back where the paint pulls away from each other into droplets/puddles, or just forms rings if the contaminant is on a small area. Like water on a freshly polished car.
|
|
|
Location:
devonport tas
Registered:
May 2005
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Fri, 27 May 2005 08:08
|
|
there will always be orange peel in paint unless it is faced off and buffed properly, it doesnt matter how good wit the gun or the equipment is that you are using, the only difference is that the peel can be controlled to blend in wit an existing paint when you do a repair, an experienced painter will not get much peel but it is still there.
its all about trial and error and finding out wat suits you best, i started out painting a old ta22 for my ex a few yrs ago as a bit of fun, something to keep me away from her and enjoyed it, got real good at it reaj quick and now paint around 5 cars a yr for me and my mates!
good luck and i hope your car comes out looking a treat
krem
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 14 June 2005 03:28
|
|
Ok guys what have I done wrong? A stupid bird whatever the black and white ones are has been attacking the bonet of the car leaving light scratches on it,so I very lightly cut it back with wet and dry obviously leaving the clear a bit duller than where it came off wet from the gun,I used cutting compound with an electric pollisher then cut and polish but it didnt polish up to the same standard as the rest of the bonet..I thought after reading the above posts that the dull areas would polish up?? Anyways I definately didnt cut completly through the clear but how do I get it all the same shine?
Now im too scared to even bother trying to cut the orange peel back as it looks like ill have to respray it all with clear which at the moment im trying to avoid...krem where are you ???????
|
|
|
Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 14 June 2005 09:45
|
|
What grade of paper did you use?
You ideally want 1200 grit, and put a bit of dishwashing detergent or other soap in your water.
The trick when rubbing back is to work small areas, lets say 20x20cm squares. Sand away at it for a while then wipe it off with a squeegee, this lets you see any valleys that you haven't sanded out, repeat until it's all good, then move on to the next area, it's a slow process. It will take a good while to cut right through (by this i mean likely 5+ minutes in one spot) so don't be too worried unless it's near edges. Give it a light wash (just with a hose and a sponge) after sanding it back, to get any sanding grit cleaned off before buffing it out
I use a 7 inch grinder with a lambswool and cutting compound to buff it, comes up great just from that. And definitely glossier than it's even possible to get straight off the gun. Give it another wash after this too, the excess cutting compound hardens up and is a bastard to get off later.
Don't spray more clear on! You won't need to once you figure where you've gone wrong...
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 14 June 2005 11:09
|
|
Thanks mate,
I used 1200 and a very light sanding action..I am only using a cheap polisher from super cheap so mabye it isnt powerfull enough to bring out the shine I need?? Im really happy with how easy it is to get the orangepeel out and the finish nice and flat but id prefer to put up with the orangepeel if im not going to be able to get the shine up again after the wet and dry dulls it down..
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 14 June 2005 12:00
|
|
im currently rubbing back erin's mr2 which i sprayed  almost 12 months ago quick wash to get any crud off. light rub back with 2000grit wet. then im rubbing it up with some "Motospray machine buffing compound" then wash it off looks tops.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 14 June 2005 13:43
|
|
...Cutting paint sucks balls!
I'm doing mine too now, was my first spray and the whole thing was peeled, but I gave it 4-5 clear coats to make up for it. It looks damn ordinary to start with, but after sanding and buffing it comes up real nice. the more you buff the better the finish.
I'm using 2000 grit paper, on a 1/3 sheet vibrating sander though, cause I got sick of rubbing. I san till all the 'shiny' dimples are gone (well, most of em anyway  ) then rinse and dry it and then cut it with mcguire's Fine cut cleaner (comes in a beige bottle) I tried about 4 diff products, but I use it cause it's convinient being liquid, you just pop the cap and squirt it on. If you don't like the prioce tag, Polyglaze cut and polish gave just as good a finish, was just a pita pryin' the can open every 5 mins or so.
You should be able to buff a better shine than is possible from a gun so don't be afraid to give it a go. if you're going to give it a few more clear coats you have to sand the peel out anyway.
Tim.
|
|
|
Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 15 June 2005 02:14
|
|
| riceburna73 wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 21:09 |
Thanks mate,
I used 1200 and a very light sanding action..I am only using a cheap polisher from super cheap so mabye it isnt powerfull enough to bring out the shine I need?? Im really happy with how easy it is to get the orangepeel out and the finish nice and flat but id prefer to put up with the orangepeel if im not going to be able to get the shine up again after the wet and dry dulls it down..
|
Could be that, what sort of pad is on the polisher?
I'm thinking maybe it's the cutting compound you're using, because you should even be able to put a bit of compound on a rag and buff it out by hand to a nice shine, that's how I do all my edges and stuff like that... is the compound a greeny colour? and what brand is it?
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 15 June 2005 03:27
|
|
Yeah probably the compound. I tried Re-Po and kitten and they came up fairly dull.
That polyglaze is like $8 from supercheap, give it a buff with that and see how it turns out.
Tim.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 15 June 2005 05:52
|
|
I used Motospray cutting compuond which is green in colour and then kitten cut and polish..Ill go to the shop today and get some decent polish but the difference in shine to where i have sanded vs where i havent is like chalk and cheese 
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
MELBOURNE
Registered:
December 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 15 June 2005 06:40
|
|
Looks good mate! Fair effort. What hp compressor did you use?
Thanks
Troy
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Wed, 15 June 2005 07:02
|
|
Well, not too good. but acceptable.
I did it in a spray booth, not a great one though, NFI on the compressor, but a big one. Possibly 3-phase. At least I'm sure it's bigger than anything you'd have for home.
We had many issues with the guns, and once we got it sorted out, the surface was already peeled, so we just put on enough clear to rub it out. comes up well enough after buffing. The rest of the job is pretty ordinary, I painted over a fair few chips and scratches, and we didn't cover the colour well enough and the old colour shows though a little in some places.
Tim.
|
|
|
Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
|
Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Mon, 22 August 2005 12:16
|
|
Step it up to 2000 grit
Also get some g3 cutting compound.. will cost you around $30 a tube but it's what you want. The polyglaze type stuff isn't designed to do the job you're wanting it to!
|
|
|
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Mon, 22 August 2005 23:04
|
|
great thanks.
wouldn't 2000 take waaaaay long to get those dimples out?
where can i get the g3 stuff? repco/supercheap?
|
|
|
Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Tue, 23 August 2005 00:58
|
|
It would.. but it's what's supposed to be used on 2pac.. maybe use 1500 to get the dimples out, then step it up to 2000 grit after that. It will affect how it buffs up later, albeit slightly.
The g3 stuff I couldn't say where to get it, my local auto paint supplier (masquerading as a specialist tools shop  ) has it, I'd be trying somewhere that specialises in auto paints. But, there's no harm in trying repco or somewhere like that, they might still be able to order it in for you!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
NY
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Thu, 25 August 2005 04:31
|
|
|
usless bump so that i can print this thread
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2005
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Sat, 27 August 2005 16:52
|
|
YOUR PAST PROBLEM WITH ORANGE PEEL
In spraying all paints there is a rule of thumb as follows..
Firstly the preparation must be done right as to the rub down and any repair it pays to get good advice at all stages and next is to decide what type of paint and color you are going to do the car etc with like enamel/acrylic etc ok now the rule of thumb...
(a)
look at the job and find out the code on the manufactures plate, if the car has change of original paint code find out if enamel or acrylic, this will help you for some paints if within 3 to 5 yrs can cause certain reactions to other paints being applied over if not sealed or isolated etc.
(b)
Clean down area wash the area and start the first repair, only with water no detergents and let dry completely, always take repair area's back to clean metal and ruffian in this area to help adhesion of filler and only apply fillers lightly, coat each layer over after rub down to reform body shape, before you fill the damaged repair area you should if needed apply a rust inhibitor on the bare metal area, as to fillers you can start with a metal mend type and finish if with liter bogs etc but it pay;s to panel beet out the area as much as possible so not to have to much filler in the repair area etc, other wise future possible cracking.
(c)
Sanding down first stage, depending on paint condition good paint surface 600/800 wet/dry paper with ever water or dry rub but wipe as you go and watch all edges and rub out all possible chips bad scratches and take shine away right to edge unless doing spot repair, always use round motion/ not straight
(d)
Wipe down well, now mask of all area's not to be sprayed
always use clean cloths lint free and now wipe surface down with wax and grease remover and make sure you wipe all areas and not much on filled area's as this can soak up the solution and problems later on, turn cloth regally and change cloth and do not touch it with other hand best done in cool area to save solution drying out to fast leaving streaks etc.
(e)
Now have a good look at the surface and have car in a good lighted area inside a shed etc and make sure that you have read the manufactures full instructions as to the first stage as to Priming the job and now look at the spray unit.
(f)
Spray unit the most important thing in this job as with the painting etc, see that the tank is big enough to provide as much air as you will need to spray in large direct spraying or you will have to wait for it to catch up when you are spraying and make sure it has a water regulator trap and bleed on line, firstly clean out the regulator trap for any water within and filter or replace filter, check compressor for oil in motor is at mark, have the unit is a safe place and any air flow from the unit away from the spraying area, as particle's from the compressor will mix with your paint,
(e)
The gun make sure it is high pressure gun with fine nozzle and the finer the better, you can change the settings and the air volume and flow to suite the type of paint etc.
(f)
Make sure that the area is fully free of dust and anything in you way that you have a full face mask as to the regulations only the best mask will do, and make sure there is nothing in this spraying area that can cause and spark or flame etc keep it safe always and there is a saying there is only one of you and you can not be replaced and as with your lungs they keep you going and don't be a fool like so many others etc.
get a test piece and now read the thinning instructions as to the paint for first application, have mixing containers not plastic one's, a measuring pot marked so you can mix your primer and top coats,
NOW LETS GO BACK to the GUN and the compressor, turn it on and let the unit run to full pressure that it shuts down and then undo the drain until it restarts again, do this 2 times lets condensation out of tank now turn regulator valve air bleed open to release water in trap, now connect line to trap, now put a little thinners in pot and spray away from any area of job and away from all sparking and flame,
CONNECT GUN to hose and turn the air adjusting pressure to the manufactures setting as to the paint you are going to spray and to set the right pressure it pays to hold trigger open while adjusting so you have no line air change to the gun for the length of the hose can change the pressure to the gun,
Now you have the gun set and sprayed a little thinners, empty out the rest and fill the pot, make sure you have mixed your paint well and thinned it correctly, Go back to the trap and release any water etc,
NOW YOU ARE READY to test your spraying technique and adjust the air flow and the flow of the paint and set the right fan type you need,
IMPORTANT NOTE when spraying any paint it is very necessary that the air temperature is right and this has a serious outcome on final application and look of the job/ NOW when you test your spraying style hold your gun far enough away so that you do not get the job to wet or to dry start out off the edge of the job hold gun always straight at the job as you pass in a smooth even flow action and this will take practice to get it right, finish outside the job area and at all times fully depress the trigger of the gun, you have make some adjustment's a get the feel of the gun and your actions never be in a hurry to rush yourself and do not keep applying coats and allow to dry between coats,
NOW YOU are ready to start your job so let recheck all things and now start outside of the job area and at the set distance you are happy with smooth passes place a light coat over you job and work around your area let air flush off and reply second coat over lapping between your actions, you can apply 3 coats depending on the surface etc and let it dry fully,
After it has fully dried you now can recheck job and now wet or dry sand with 600 / 800 clean down with wax/grease remover and now you can apply spray putty coats with putty gun if needed to hide scratches, apply light coats allow to dry fully between coats and do not apply to thick, let fully dry and sand with worn out 600/800 wet/dry paper/ only dry sand and again wipe down now respray primer until it is fully covered to job leave to full dry depending on air temp.
NOW rub down the job with now 800 with a little water not to hard just work it easy and wipe down and check surface if need re-coat only area's needed and lightly rub the same, leave to dry fully.
BEST method for top coat, FULLY CLEAN THE GUN DRAIN AIR TANK and REGULATOR of any water and check the air temp VERY IMPORTANT, to cold no good to hot the same AROUND 19C to 26C is reasonably good, make sure job is fully clean and dry and now mix your top coad adjust the air flow pressure and fill the pot of the gun test your piece as a test spray as above, set the FAN AND FLOW AND AIR RATE UNTIL YOU ARE HAPPY WITH IT,
MAKE SURE THAT THE FAN RATE AND FLOW IS CLEAN AND OVERS IN A CROSS STROKE ON YOU TEST PIECE , now you are ready to apply first tack coat,
START OUTSIDE OF YOUR JOB and depress the trigger fully and on large area's such as hood it pays to start from center edge overlapping each stroke and finishing outside of the edge of job, FIRST COAT IS TACK COAT AND IS A LIGHT COAT, NOW APPLY SECOND COAT and cross at opposite direction overlapping and apply at a slower action NOT TO SLOW this will be a wet coat LET TACK OFF AND recheck job NOW APPLY IF NEEDED ANOTHER WET COAT BUT NOT TO WET, let tack off ,
NOW THIN THE PAINT TO A GREATER AMOUNT AS TO THE DIRECTIONS AND ADJUST AIR FLOW TO A NEW SETTING OF RECOMMENDATION AS TO INSTRUCTION now moving the gun at a faster rate and smooth action apply the final coats being careful at this final stage and not over doing it, YOU WILL ALL SO HOLD YOU GUN AWAY LITTLE FURTHER AS WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED,
YOU WILL ALL SO SEE THAT THE TOP COAT IS SHINNING MORE NOW AND YOU CAN LET IT DRY FULL FOR A FEW DAY'S OR YOU CAN APPLY A CLEAR COAT OVER MOST PAINTS THESE DAY'S, BUT THIS SHOULD BE DONE A LEAST 20 minutes or so after you have the top coat on so that the 2 applications form together,
FINALLY, some spray painters rub between each and every coat if there is MODAL OR ORANGE PEEL AND THIS CAN COME FROM MANY FACTORS, it is a leaning curve and technique, so be patient and practice remember safety all the time.
AFTER IT HAS FULL DRIED YOU CAN RUB DOWN IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS LIKE ORANGE PEEL OR SLIGHT RUNS ONLY WITH ACRYLIC PAINTS AS WITH RUNS ETC ENAMELS ARE ABIT DIFFERENT AND YOU WILL NEED MORE ADVICE ETC,
THE FINAL RUB DOWN WOULD BE WITH 1000 TO 1200 0R HIGHER WITH PLENTY OF WATER BUT NOT TO WET, AFTER THAT YOU CAN BUFF OFF WITH A GOOD CUTTING COMPOUND WITH BUFFING MACHINE AND LAMBS WOOL PAD CHANGING IT REGULAR AND YOU MUST WATCH THE EDGES OF YOU JOB AFTER THIS YOU MAY WASH YOUR CAR BUT NOT WITH A HARSH DETERGENT AND WIPE IT DOWN CAREFULLY, AFTER SOMETIME WHEN THE PAINT HAS FULLY HARDEN YOU CAN APPLY TEFLON CLEAR OVER IT WITH UV PROTECTION IN IT ONLY USE THE BEST BRANDS NOT THE CHEAP ONES
BEST OF LUCK
Pedro the Painter
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Sat, 27 August 2005 18:10
|
|
|
damn thats a lot of typing and an excellent guide!!
|
|
|
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2005
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Sun, 28 August 2005 15:01
|
|
Hi Papercut, thank you for your post my friend,
In answer to your problem (SHINE NOT THE SAME), think of the clear as being like glass firstly and how a window repairer fixes the stone chips and takes out the scratches and how would you do this and not make it worse and look at the reflection in a mirror,
In all these things there are much the same thing that is to see it shine and how this is done and to keep it this way and how to repair it,
To polish glass many year's ago that had gone dole they used talcum powder in a circular motion mixed with a little water to a paste and polished small area's at a time etc
that was very slow and now they use diamond powder with other chemicals and cutting agents,either dry powder or paste form and there are many other things that can be added to these formulas like water and oils, to many to mention,
NOW if you was doing a spot repair, after you have finished the repair you must lightly rub down the surrounding area over the clean area as well but being very careful not to cut the original clear to much,
Use 1200 or higher so that the old surface has a bonding for the new clear coat, make sure that the clear you are using is compatible to the old clear coat for again there is a difference between enamel clear and acrylic clear and the technique is different depending how old the surfaces is as to chemical reaction and grade of paints, always check with the manufacturer of your paints etc,
NOW YOU HAVE RUB ALL THE area down around the spot repair and now used the wax and grease remover and not leaving any streaks on all the area and apply your top coats and fanned outside around the spot repair,
YOU WILL SEE THAT THE TOP COAT HAS LET SOME OVER SPRAY ONTO THE ORIGINAL SURFACE , You must let it dry and use a tack rag, and only do this when the paint has dried,
Now apply clear coats as to direction and thinning and I add a little more thinners to the final clear over coats and this helps the shine up as to buffing up the job,
As a rule you can use a pin guadge to measure the dept of the clear but your eyes are the best guadge you can get and you will need to spray past the spot repair to edge of the panel for this is the best way to revive clear coat even,
to get an even shine over the full panel,
DO NOT PUT CLEAR TO THICK ON ONLY TO THE RECOMMENDATIONS, FOR IN THE WRONG CONDITIONS IT CAN CAUSE YOU PROBLEMS
2 FIRM COATS AND FINAL FINE IS ABOUT ENOUGH,
THERE ARE MANY TYPES OF CLEAR COATS USE THE BETTER ONE'S RECOMMENDED, NOT THE CHEAP ONE'S
Now let it dry fully for a few day's and have a good look at it, if you are not in a work shop and do not have heat lights and are doing it at home it will pay you to let it dry longer the better,
for paint leeches it's solvents out for some time and enamel is even longer,
AND DO NOT LEAVE IT IS THE FULL SUN AND RAIN KEEP IT IS THE GARAGE OR SHED.
NOW TO THE CUTTING BACK, , the surface of paint is very uneven but this is not seen by your eyes at times,
but is notices if we have orange peel or runs or module,
IF YOU HAVE GOOD SHINE OF THE GUN then you will have little trouble in buffing up your paint job,
FIRSTLY, carefully blow the surface down with air, you can wash it with a fine spray not to wet and no hard pressure,
NO DETERGENT AT ALL AND WIPE WITH CARE,
WITH A VERY SOFT LINT FREE CLOTH ALWAYS,
ONLY BUY THE BEST CUTTING COMPOUND MACHINE OR HAND AND LAMBS WOOL BUFFING PADS AND YOU WILL NEED 2 OR 3 SPEED BUFFING MACHINE,
YOU WILL NEED A LEAST 2 PADS 3 IS BETTER for you well find that you get a better finish with the following method,
CUT IT OUT OF THE SUN, MIX YOUR CUTTING COMPOUND AND READ THE INSTRUCTIONS AND HAVE ANOTHER TIN AVAILABLE AND A PURE HORSE HAIR BRUSH SMALL ONE ABOUT 2 inch will do,
SOME cutting compounds can be thinned a little BUT read the instructions first ,
HAVE SOME SOFT CLOTH WITH YOU AND A FRIEND TO HELP YOU BUFF IT UP,
BE CAREFUL WHEN NEAR EDGES AND CURVE'S AND CORNERS ETC,
PUT THE NEW PAD TO THE MACHINE, MAKING SURE THAT IT IS TIED CURRECTLY AND THE STRING IS NOT GOING TO RUB THE SURFACE,
GO TO YOUR TEST PANEL YOU HAVE AND HAVE YOUR FRIEND DIP THE END OF THE BRUSH INTO THE COMPOUND AND PUT A DAB ON YOU TEST PANEL AND SET YOUR MACHINE TO SLOW AND WORKING IN A CIRCULOR MOTION AND A LITTLE AREA AT A TIME,
MOT APPLYING TO MUCH PRESSURE AND WHEN YOU NEED MORE COMPOUND GET HIM TO PUT MORE ON THE AREA IN FRONT OF YOU,
NOTE, NOT TO MUCH,
AS YOU ARE WORKING YOU WILL FIND A LOT OF DRY PARTICALES ON THE SURFACE AND NOW AND THAN BLOW THEM AWAY WITH AIR,
YOUR PAD WILL BECOME CLOGGED AND YOU WILL NEED TO CLEAN IT, NOT WITH WATER. GET A FLAT CLEAN STEEL RULER OR FILE,
BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN DOING THIS, RUN MACHINE AT SLOW SPEED AND HOLD FILE OR RULER EDGE ON OFF SPIN OF ROTAITION LIGHTLY AGAINST PAD AND PARTICLES WILL BE REMOVE, HAVE A FERM HOLD OF MACHINE AND RULER OR FILE ETC,
NOW YOU HAVE THE FEEL TO BUFF YOUR JOB FOLLOW THE ABOVE AND WORK SMALL AREA'S AT A TIME APPLYING COMPOUND AT REGULAR TIMES AND BLOWING DOWN JOB,
YOU CAN ALTERNATE THE SPEEDS DEPENDING ON THE LOOK OF SHINE,
BUT CLEANING OF THE PADS ARE VERY INPORTAND,
AND DO NOT APPLY TO MUCH PRESSURE TO THE JOB FOR THIS WILL BURN YOUR PAINT,
FINNALLY, YOU CAN USE YOU CLEAN PAD LEFT OVER FOR FINAL POLISHING OFF, AND WHEN FULLY FINSHED AND YOU ARE HAPPY WITH IT, WASH THE CAR AND WIPE DRY,
NOW GO AND HAVE A BEER, BUT KEEP THE CAR IN THE SHED,
AFTER ABOUT 2 WKS OR SO WASH IT AGAIN AND DRY OFF RECHECK SURFACE AND APPLY TEFLON CLEAR WITH U V PROTECTION IN IT OVER THE CAR,
ALWAYS APPLY POLISHES IN SHADE AND ON COOL SURFACES, ONLY USE GOOD BRANDS AND STICK TO THE SAME ONE ALL THE TIME.
BEST OF LUCK
Pedro
|
|
|
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Sun, 28 August 2005 23:08
|
|
simply awesome mate, simply awesome. this is what the tech section is really for!
just a few more queries if you don't mind,
what buff pads do you generally favour? (in order of use)
also, in the event of drips/overspray, whats the most effective method for correcting?
I've done a few jobs recently where i had to cut back the bumper about 4 times because there were drips down the side, resulting me to sand down the ENTIRE bumper and spraying it again - very tedeous, but i can't imagine only spot repairing it as the blend would be too obvious?!
thanks heaps matey
|
|
|
Location:
geelong
Registered:
August 2005
|
|
Re: Orange peel and other assorted questions
|
Mon, 29 August 2005 11:44
|
|
|
nice post Pedro lots of good info
|
|
|
