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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 11:31
 
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Yep, you could use all the accessories. You would need mounting brackets made and potentially the pulleys modified for correct fanbelt width and also accessory speed (they might run too fast or too slow depending on pulley diameter). Might actually be cheaper to run Ford items (brackets and correct pulleys already exist) and get lines adapted to suit.
Cheers Dave.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 11:33
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nah running an all electric cooling system...so no probs with fan belts
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 11:36
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Thing is i am building the enging for myself...its a 302windsor block .. cleveland 351 heads...65hp increase alone for those!!! And just other things i will be doing... am using my w58 and running stock diff...they're tuff as nails  I might try and use the harmonic balancer from a 5me or 7mgte i have...have spares around...would be handy if they'd fit!!
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 11:42
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Don`t bother using the orig alternator......it`s crap anyway.Better off using the 1 off the windsor....You can make up brackets for the p/s pump and air con but it`s a pain in the arse!!!!Easier to get a p/s pump to suit the 302 and just get new lines made up.If you realy want to keep your a/c, well you have no choice but to make up a bracket(good luck)....
Most people here will frown down on you for putting a old school V8 in your supra!.....But good on ya!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 11:45
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You will still need a belt of some description to run all the accessories you mentioned - they potentially will be over/underdriven depending on the pulley ratios.
With regard to the harmonic balancer, I suppose you could machine it to make it fit. Just make sure there is adequate meat on it (I don't know Windsors at all), you balance it and accurately scribe TDC on it so timing/tuning isn't guess work later on.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 11:46
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hey its cheaper than putting a turbo in...i want too much power that a toyota computer can give me...there goes another 2-3k for an aftermarket one...so go the carby V8!!!  Do you have any pics of ur v8 supra? wat motor is in it? Yeah i will def keep the p.s pump...alternator i agree are piss weak...but i know an auto elec..so no hassles there as for a.c...well if its too difficult ill go to the auto elec too ...Am still deciding what ill buy to drive while im doin the convo...a vp-vr commodore im looking at if i cant buy the right celica i want...
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:04
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I`m running a 308 but realy wanted a windsor but just couldn`t find a good 1!....Don`t forget that you`ll have to run the bastard on LPG to meet emission requirements.I got some pics somewhere....give me your email add if you want me to send a couple
cheers
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:10
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My email address is blakerobson@hotmail.com is yours a ma61 too? My dad talked me into a 302...his mate owns a 302 powered capri...flies!! and always has spare engines and parts around...if thesupra diff breaks then hell give me a ford 9 incher..nah im keepin the thing registered ...so no probs with emission testing
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:20
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ROBBO_ma61
You cannot use the balancer off the 5me as the windsor is externaly balanced so you must use the windsor balancer and also the windsor flywheel as these are both counterweighted for the balance of the motor , you also mentioned using the clevo heads , You may already know , to use the clevo heads you have to modify the water galleries and use a BOSS inlet menifold .
I have just finished putting a windsor in a 1990 2wd hilux , might not be real quick but the low end grunt makes it great to drive .
Trevor
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:23
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Ok.....i take it your not getting the car engineered then.Hope you never get involved in a accident or get pulled over by the EPA or cops `cause you`ll get bent over big time!!!!!!!!You`ll only break your diff if your a burnout king and if you are don`t bother using the W58.....they don`t like abuse or torque.....
anyway i`ll send some pics tommorow.
cheers
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:31
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NAh i will probably do something about the emissions...exhaust system or something...No im not a wanker that chucks donuts so the diff should be just fine id say...IM definetly using the w58...no questions there...this is going to be a long term project so it will be done properly...im expecting up to 18mths-2yrs...NObody told me about altering the water galleries...i havent bought anything yet but thank you very much for telling me...you said it isnt quick??
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:41
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sorry fellas i hadnt been told the full story...they are clevo heads and yes we do have to grind the gallerier a little bit for them to line up. The intake manifold is a boss also...thankyou for showing interest in helping me though guys. As for emissions the head has been hardened ready for new valves...and it will be run on unleaded...heads were rebuilt to be run on unleaded. i only found out all this tonight. the engine is coming from port macquarie in nsw...
thanks - blake
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:49
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Cheaper than putting a turbo in? Doubt that!
A 7mgte($1495 from SSS) bolts straight in to the engine mounts and straight up to the gearbox. Then put a $1095 microtech on it and your set.
You want more power than the toyota computer can give you???
Engines make power not computers and if you want more power I wouldn't in any attempt be putting a pushrod V8 in! That will limit your power, nothing else.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:52
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If i bought a 7mgte without a doubt id rebuild it...no way would i put it straight into the car after the reputation they have. Ive got one sitting in my garage im selling parts off. By doing that and potentially finding any little nasties the costs would start to mount up
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:56
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ROBBO_ma61
I,ve only had it going for about a week so still got a bit of tuning to do , I'ts a stock 302 and puts out 107 rwkw still thats a bit more than the old 2y which put out 27rwkw , What I mean by not real quick is that I'm used to driving my TA22 with over 260 RWKW .
Trevor
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 12:57
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admittedly i wanted to put a 7mgte in to start with. After a long time looking i decided fuck it, ill take the engine my dads mate has..the 302...i will get it cheap and the costs will be similar. I dont want to rip half the car inside apart to do all the hassles of wiring up computers, ecus and all that stuff...i could pay somebody but then thats a big $ ask... As i said its a long term project. not something i am wanting done straight away..
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 13:00
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wat motor is in that ta22? I am looking at between 350-400bhp easy from this engine if i do it the way my dads mate has done his capri..he pulled something like 300kw at wheels on a dyno...not by spending $10k on the engine to do it i might add. I am not trying to put toyota engines to shame...they're great and id love to have one but the 302 is an offer i cant resist If i do up a ra23 ill def go a jap engine
blake
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 13:09
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Its alright pushrod V8's will never put toyota engines to shame!
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 13:20
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ROBBO_ma61
The motor in my TA22 is a 3SGTE , no internal mods other than gapless rings , I did a little work on the head ( debured and blended the seats in )fitted another set of 3SGTE injectors and replaced the stock ct26 with one off a group A GT4 which has a larger comp wheel and running 21lb boost , the best 1/4 mile so far is 12.2 @ 120.2 mph on street tyres ( 205/60/13 ) not much traction in first 3 gears .
Trevor
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Wed, 01 January 2003 21:22
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Just a thought on your heads...
Why are you using 351 Clevo heads??
they are an open chamber and will have stuff all compression.
Use a set of 302 heads, they are a closed chamber and will work much better.
also dont let anyone talk you into a set of 4V heads, the ports are way to large for a street motor, especially one thats only 302 cubes.
One other thing you might be intertested in is a stroker kit for your 302, those things happily stroke to 347cubes.
And you can get the injection of a late model v8.
which is probably a much better idea, as you dont have to worry about emissions the same. however you will need to meet the emissions the ma61 always did, and using a old (60's) motor and a carb thats going to be very hard!
At least your not using a clevo!
Trevor is also right, you will need to get a Boss manifold, Funnel Web make the best one i have seen, but not much good for street work. and these manifolds cost a pretty penny at about $700.
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 01:12
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the clevo head has been planed and is in near new condition. It is a 2 valve head so no problems there. The clevo head gives an auto 65-85hp increase because of intake and exhaust port size. The 351 exhaust ports are about 2 times the 302 size. Yeah i was going to stroke it, and bore the block. Its not an old 60s motor, i believe it was early to mid 80s. All the manifolds i am going to buy off my dads friend...so no problems there. Will the w58 be ok with the 302? I will need a new clutch...the old one is almost worn out anyway. i will find out more about what i am getting tonight hopefully. Will write everything down. I am expecting that i can have the engine in the car with everything i am wanting for 400+hp will set me back about 2.5k not a bad deal i am thinking. Probably all up the convo will be about 5-6k.
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 06:15
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Dunno how you will get 400+hp with $2.5k?
V8 super car engines costs $100,000 and put out 600hp.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 06:21
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Thu, 02 January 2003 12:12 |
It is a 2 valve head so no problems there.
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FYI, Cleveland heads are all 2 valve heads. The 2V and 4V designations merely refer to different head configurations, the 4V having large ports, enormous intake (>2" diam!) and exhaust valves, and I believe there may have been some differences with the combustion chamber. They were used on the infamous GT Falcons.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 07:58
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I'm surprised that, during this entire discussion, no-one has suggested the use of a 1UZ-FE...Certainly not 400HP (without spending reasonable $$), but easy emissions "qualification" (esp. as compared to a 400HP 302!), Heaps better reliability (eg. 6-bolt mains, forged pistons, decent build quality etc etc), and cheap and easy to obtain...
Ntaurally, I'm a little "biased", but I speak from some experience.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 08:32
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V8 SUPERCAR ENGINES ARE ENGINEERED TO RUN A 1000KM RACE AND TO REV OUT TO SOMETHING LIKE 12000RPM. If you are so keen on power man...ask the fella in sydney with the ma70 pullin 532rwKW...i bet he didnt spend 100k...they are race cars not drive cars
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 08:34
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1uzfe is a very technical engine...probably more technical that a 1JZGTE they r great but u have a problem with one throw it away and start again... Too much trouble for me to play with...and im not prepared to pay somebody else 1000's to play with it
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 08:38
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Thu, 02 January 2003 19:32 |
V8 SUPERCAR ENGINES ARE ENGINEERED TO RUN A 1000KM RACE AND TO REV OUT TO SOMETHING LIKE 12000RPM.
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Actually the taxis are limited to 7500.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 08:55
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Nice one GT
I hate that form of racing!
even tho i love my old ford V8's...
but they are just that OLD!
and they still use them??
and IRS is banned!
so is multiple cam's!
Anyway, Robbo...
Dont worry to much about boring the block, this is only done when the bores are scored, no one does it for a capacity increase, 60thou is about as far as anyone goes, but windsors do have thicker walls, which means you can go further without having pistons go thru them.
I still think you should go down the injected path, the gear is out there, its all bolt on, and its more reliable than a carb. and more tunable if you go for an after market ECU, I know it will cost you a lot more than you want, but hey, you want something good??
As for your W58, it should be ok, providing you dont drop the clutch and treat it harsly.
Also no towing! (ever seen a MA61 towing a caravan??  )
However, going down the Ford V8 path is a wisish one.
you have a huge list of after market parts, especially if you stick with windsor heads, there is about a dozen differnet types of heads you can buy!
Try that on a 5M
You also have a 3" mains! woo!
However your point before about your diff...
ever seen a IRS 9" ??
i havent, and i dont think you will want to give up your IRS.
Be kind to your diff!
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Thu, 02 January 2003 22:50
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Thu, 02 January 2003 18:34 |
1uzfe is a very technical engine...probably more technical that a 1JZGTE they r great but u have a problem with one throw it away and start again... Too much trouble for me to play with...and im not prepared to pay somebody else 1000's to play with it
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There's nothing "technical" about a 1UZ. Pull it apart and it works the same as any other engine! If you have a problem you repair it, just like you would with a crusty old 302. There's absolutely no reason to give up and throw it away (unless you've done something major like throw a rod).
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Fri, 03 January 2003 00:41
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Might've been thinking of those Toyota RV8G engines, 2.65L Methanol Turbo V8 they redline at 16500rpm.
Over 800hp, dunno how much they cost though... you'd have to get it through someone with a racing licence I'd reckon...
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Fri, 03 January 2003 13:43
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| Quote: |
Toyota RV8G engines, 2.65L Methanol Turbo V8 they redline at 16500rpm.
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I thought the RVG8 was a Nissan or poss Mitsubishi wasn;t it?
Could be wrong
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Fri, 03 January 2003 13:47
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I am lost ay...heard about a nice 7m today that can be shown in the car...$1600 with everything...head done, new hg. I dont know what ill do...spose if its in good nic its cheaper than a 302...im really not looking for more than 350+bhp...the car would be deadly...so ill have to decide soon wat im gonna do...m series were the toyota fuck up series but they can be fixed, or try to be helped. 5me, 5mge, 7mge, 7mgte all had the same problems. FUCKEN HEAD GASKETS!!! Maybe i should give up and buy a ma70...leave the 5me alone..any suggestions?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Fri, 03 January 2003 23:16
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Sat, 04 January 2003 00:47 |
5me, 5mge, 7mge, 7mgte all had the same problems. FUCKEN HEAD GASKETS!!!
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Only the 7M, it's way hyped up and easy to fix if done properly. The others, well, they're over 20 years old and in cars that generally are pretty poorly maintained. What do you expect?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Mon, 06 January 2003 10:59
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I've got respect for both camps - big engines, and smaller ones.
Pushrod V8's aren't necessarily 'crap', they have their place, as do OHC engines - theres certainly nothing new about a toyota 1uz, its all 1920's technology. And still hideously inefficient.
Anyone who was at Summernats could well have seen the Trick+Mansweto XW falcon 351 pulled a naturally aspirated 708hp at the wheels. With a 'crap' 351. I'm sure as hell not saying that you could drive this thing to the lawn bowls meet every day (overheating, fuel consumption, noise all being issues!), but it only sounded half as lumpy as many cars that made less than half the power. Plus it obviously wasn't exactly a cheap engine, and would be so far from emissions standards it might as well be a nuclear reactor, specially with twin 4 barrels! Then again, does someone think they can knock up a naturally aspirated 1uz with that kind of grunt?
That said, right now at home we're building a project HZ holden with a 1UZ in it, and I intend to use one in my next car as well. Plus my current car is a turbo 4ag. Learn to appreciate everything!
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Mon, 06 January 2003 11:50
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Couldn`t agree more!........VERY well said!!!!!!
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Mon, 06 January 2003 11:50
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The headgaskets arnt the problem. It's the tuning if you know anything about 7M's.
The blown head gaskets are the result of detonation and morons not realising the car is pinging its tits off.
The factory ignition timing to too high when you run high boost. The alloy composition in toyota heads are quite soft if you have dealt with them. In the combustion chamber dome there are too many sharp edges that need too be removed if your going for over 450hp.The soft metal acts exactly like glow plugs in a diesel and pre-ignites the fuel causing detonation.
With some proper tuning there is nothing wrong with a stock 7mgte up to 450hp. I'm getting 360hp out of mine with the headgasket that was put on it back in......well back in 1989 at the factory. It's all in the tuning and a bit of knowledge.
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Pushrod V8's aren't necessarily 'crap', they have their place
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Pushrod engines have their place. In history. Their emission outputs are ludicrous! The current Holden pushrod V6(and in their 2003 Bommodore) wouldn't have passed 1996 Californian emmissions to enable them to sell the rod boxes.
Emission outputs are greatly reduced with OHC's.
Toyota's in Cal are now running OBD2(On board diagnostics V2) which monitors individual cylinder EGT's for better emissions.
I appreciate things, especially history and believe thats where pushrods belong, for the sake of the greenhouse gases atleast.
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Mon, 06 January 2003 11:56
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Pushrod engines can run nice and clean on straight LPG
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
June 2002
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 Re: SOME V8 conversion questions
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Mon, 06 January 2003 12:27
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If I were you mate I would seriusly consider the 1UZ... All that 302 Iron I think would seriusly stuff your handling, an if you don't care bout handling sell the nice Supra an buy a Capri or Escort. I am not nockin the ford iron my mate has one in a Nissan Fourby that hammers, but a 1UZ on N20 and LPG would hammer, handle and be cheap to run. I was about to spend over $1000.00 on forgies for my 308 when I found a complete 1UZ (with forgies, 6 bolts, 4cams and all the rest) is the same money! Do what YOU want mate, but the '02 will be more Xpensive.
By the way my wife smashed second gear in a w series supra box, behind a stock 253!! Your '02 will eat it alive, so unless you go the good old toploader or the $2k turbo supra box, make sure you buy a crate of Supra 5 speeds. I also heard of a guy in Brizzy making cams for 1UZ, talk to the guy with the VL1JZGTE on these forums for more info.
Cheers.
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