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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2005
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 18rg queries
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Mon, 30 May 2005 00:11
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I've currently got an 18r in my 1983 hilux 4wd and I'm looking at an 18rg to replace it. On the cylinder head of the engine I'm lookin at it has the number 88210. Can anyone tell me what this represents?
Also, can I just change the head from the 18rg to my 18r or do I need to change the whole engine? Is an 18r and an 18rg exactly the same except for the different head, or is there more to it than that?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 30 May 2005 08:22
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if your looking for a new engine i have a rg in pieces. its got all new rings and bearings and gaskets, machined and oringed block, full efi setup and solexs, head has been machined, 2mm copper head gasket, extracters, 2 turbos and many spares. pm if your keen and seriously looking for a good rg.
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 30 May 2005 11:25
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Hi,
The early-build 18RG engines had the 88210 head. It had the highest compression ratio and the highest power output of all the stock 18RG engine variants. It came with the solex side draught carbs, no anti-pollution devices and is a splendid engine.
The later 18RG (18RGR, 18RGU, 18RGUE) variants had different head designs and larger valves in an attempt to compensate for their lower compression ratio and anti-pollution gear. However, they never achieved the output of the original 88210-head 18RG with the Solexs.
However, if you are thinking about turbos, then you're better off with the 18RGU or 18RGUE engines. But if you just want to go NA, then the 88210 18RG is the engine.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 30 May 2005 22:39
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Thanks river,
I'm probably going to buy the 18rg with the 88210 head that I've already looked at. It's got the twin carbs, but a mate of mine has a complete efi set up for an 18rg that he sais I can have for free. Is it ok if I put the efi set up on the motor that currently has twin carbs?
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 30 May 2005 23:08
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Hi,
Awww, you're breaking an old man's heart! 
EFI on a classic 210-head 18RG is sacrilege, but if that's what you've got your heart set on then go for it. It won't give you any more power and you'll lose that wonderful sound of air being sucked into your engine.
I've found the Solexs on my engine are fantastic and perfectly suited for the motor. They've been tuned twice and rebuilt once in their 25years of faithful service. The engine has always started first time whether it's freezing cold or stinking hot, they don't guzzle petrol and never missed a beat.
I assume the EFI parts mate to the 210-head? I'm sure that someone on these forums will know more about fitting EFI onto an 18RG than I do.
Don't forget to post the forums when you're done and let us know how it goes.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 30 May 2005 23:15
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Hmmm, I had no idea that that particular head was a classic head. Maybe youve twisted my arm.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Tue, 31 May 2005 01:10
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It's classic alright, think about 1971?? Just make sure the head is still hard, my 210 head dropped a valve seat, luckily at low revs and only bent a valve.
I have a pic of 4 heads that i had, 88210, 88250, 88253, 88270 if someone can host them?
Big differences in design for strength
Glen.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Tue, 31 May 2005 08:34
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www.imageshack.us
solex's are better, once u hear the twins at full song, u wont put the efi on
but i'll take the efi off your mate 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18rg queries
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Tue, 31 May 2005 08:51
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Yeah, the solexes have a class all of their own, but with a better set of cams, the noise just gets even better. It could attract police though.
EFI will give better fuel efficiency and maybe better torque at low revs (hilux suits this).
You'll need to put reliefs in the head for the fuel injectors, other than that and the thermostat housing, EFI gear should all be direct swap.
If you get the 88210 engine, could you tell me what the part numbers of the camshafts are, I'd love to know what they were.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Tue, 31 May 2005 09:15
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Steve, iv just bought a 210 head, havent picked the cams up yet but when i do ill let u know wat they are.
88250 head arriving in the mail tomorow:)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2004
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Wed, 01 June 2005 07:14
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Gleno, do u have any other pics of those heads? Or was it taken by you? do u reckon u can PLEASE take a few more photo's and post em up?
Like top side, deck side, inlet and exhaust sides? So we can compare them, all i know is the yamaha casted heads have much more support members in the rocker box.
ID appreciate and im sure a few others would to....
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Wed, 01 June 2005 07:17
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are u sure of the left to right order there, very odd that the 210 and the 270 have the same supports in the cam area and the 250 and the 253 have the same but are completely different to the other 2
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Wed, 01 June 2005 07:18
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i have a 250 and 270 here, what pics do u all want
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Wed, 01 June 2005 07:28
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top side, bottom side exhaust & inlet  Of both? PLEASE:)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 01:31
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| Mr DOHC wrote on Wed, 01 June 2005 17:17 |
are u sure of the left to right order there, very odd that the 210 and the 270 have the same supports in the cam area and the 250 and the 253 have the same but are completely different to the other 2
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Yeah, the 210 has no supports what so ever, the 270 has small supports (look better designed than the 250's), harder to see than the 250's
I'll take some pics of the 88210, i've sold my car with the 88253 on it - went real hard! (i'll find a pic of that engine too)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 07:35
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Anyone mind if i start a new thread (18RG queries) - sorry to hijack - so i can post these pics easier?
Have 210 and 250 snaps
Glen.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 07:51
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go for it!
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Location:
Hobart
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 08:39
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efi will bolt on to the 210 head, this is what ive got.
about solex vs. efi, i have had both and will never ever go back. lets write a list of what i noticed:
-heaps better starting (big one if you live in a cold place)
-heaps better low-down torque
-the same upper end power
-heaps better economy
-heaps smoother
one down point:
-doesn't sound like side draughts (but this annoyed me on long drives)
but each to their own i guess... the ultimate would be quad thottle body efi i guess.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 09:25
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Have owned both at once (carb and efi 18RG) and found the well tuned 45mm webbers on 88253 head to be way faster than the 88270 head with efi running a haltec - but that's just one case i guess.
Anyway, starting a new thread for 18RG head pics
Glen.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 10:05
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maybe someone should start a thread "18rg-carby vs efi"
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 10:18
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| jeffro RA28 wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 20:05 |
maybe someone should start a thread "18rg-carby vs efi"
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while thats getting started, i'll duck down to the shops and get some worm bait, i'll need it for the can u are about to open 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 10:50
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Hehe, good call... as i go running back to the 1G shed...
here's my old 18RG with 45 webbers to confuse things...
Glen.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 10:55
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wow, i am confused. lol
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Location:
Hobart
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 11:15
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| Gleno28 wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 19:25 |
Have owned both at once (carb and efi 18RG) and found the well tuned 45mm webbers on 88253 head to be way faster than the 88270 head with efi running a haltec - but that's just one case i guess.
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yeh, you are talking about different heads, probably different cams, maybe even different compression ratio on those engines.
My was the exact same engine, took carbies off put efi on. Remember though im comparing to original solexes.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 11:48
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like this? 88270 head with factory efi and haltec E5 i think - was very reliable all the time
Old engine from current RA28
(ok, i'll stop the pics
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 02 June 2005 13:14
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i have some pictures of a rather nicely ported 88230 head with what looks like stainless steel valves....
the 88230 has no supports like the 88210 in that pic before...
the 88250 has 45mm intake and 37.5mm exhaust valves IIRC
88253 has 45mm intake and 39mm exhaust valves (will confirm soon when i take my 88253 head off)
the 88253 and 88270 are virtually identical, minus the supports and releifs for injectors.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 06 June 2005 09:20
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just while this thread is up and its a querie.
has anybody had any trouble with cracked valves guides in the 18rg heads? In my case the yamaha 88250. iv got 2 cracked guides. Originally i was going to leave it be but as I was shortening one guide this arvo and after applying a little more load it broke off. So there is no choice but to replace it. Can these guides be forced out(heat ofcourse)? otherwise i will have to drill them. Please advise. We manufacture V8 heads at my work so iv got everything needed to do all the work.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 06 June 2005 09:35
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valve guides should be removable!! i got new ones in my VRS kit IIRC??
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 06 June 2005 09:37
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Removable by way of forcing or drilling?
Excuse my ignorance, wat does IIRC mean?
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Mon, 06 June 2005 11:21
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Hi,
| jeffro RA28 wrote on Mon, 06 June 2005 19:37 |
Excuse my ignorance, wat does IIRC mean?
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IIRC = If I Remember Correctly
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Tue, 07 June 2005 07:00
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what u mean u got new ones in the VRS karl, u mean whole guides, what brand kit
i'm pretty sure u can remove them with an air hammer {special one}
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Tue, 07 June 2005 07:56
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Doesnt matter, i didnt even bother trying to force them out. Didnt want to damage the bore, or gall the alu. Just drilled them out.
MR DOHC about your 18rg tech article. I will be flowing a 210 and 250 head soon so ill be able to tell u the flow rates etc very soon.
Yer id like to know what kit also.
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 16 June 2005 09:00
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| mkal6 wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 18:10 |
since we are in the topic of 18rg
just a query on the 253 head.
if the 253 heads are running on carbys and not efi, wouldnt they have the same bhp output as the 18rg 210 head since the anti pollution system is integrated into the efi.
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no, cause the compression is lower
| mkal6 wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 18:10 |
are the 18rg block and 18rc block excactly the same?
meaning is it advisable for me to buy a 18rg head and whack it onto my 18rc or better off with a complete motor
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the block is the same, cept for different dipstick location {when sitting in the car, dipsick will be on LHS for 18RG and RHS for RC}, crank and rods are same, RG is stroger tho, 18RC has lower compression
complete motor, need all the timing gear and aux shaft too, sometimes the guides can be more exxy than the entire motor
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Location:
Geelong, Vic
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 16 June 2005 09:45
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| Mr DOHC wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 19:00 |
| mkal6 wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 18:10 |
since we are in the topic of 18rg
just a query on the 253 head.
if the 253 heads are running on carbys and not efi, wouldnt they have the same bhp output as the 18rg 210 head since the anti pollution system is integrated into the efi.
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no, cause the compression is lower
| mkal6 wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 18:10 |
are the 18rg block and 18rc block excactly the same?
meaning is it advisable for me to buy a 18rg head and whack it onto my 18rc or better off with a complete motor
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the block is the same, cept for different dipstick location {when sitting in the car, dipsick will be on LHS for 18RG and RHS for RC}, crank and rods are same, RG is stroger tho, 18RC has lower compression
complete motor, need all the timing gear and aux shaft too, sometimes the guides can be more exxy than the entire motor
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IMO this in not quite true, im off the understanding that rc crank and rods are cast and rg crank and rods are forged. (so yes you are right they are stronger But different)the oil pumps are also different
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18rg queries
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Thu, 16 June 2005 13:17
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just the clear some doubts i got,
if the 253 head is only inferior by the lower compression, then if i used the 210 piston to utilise the compression (9.7:1 i think) and 253's bigger valves (meaning 253 head with 210 bottom), wouldnt i have a more powerful engine.
something sounds wrong ere, correct me guys
regards
mo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18rg queries
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Fri, 17 June 2005 06:14
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best to use the 9.7 pistons, 88250/253/270 head is best
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Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 18rg queries
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Fri, 17 June 2005 08:28
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I used the 9.7.1 pistons on a 253 head feels like will have more grunt when complete. Shouldn't the ? of cams also come into this debate.
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