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t18_psi
Occasional Poster

Location:
perth wa
Registered:
June 2005

recomended 3t-gte mods	Wed, 15 June 2005 04:08

hey all im new here. i just bought a t18 unlic with 3t-gte for $1500. im planning to spend some dosh on it to make it look a bit neater and perhaps some engine mods too. currently it has a k&n pod in a box, small cooler with a 600x300x76 waiting in the shed, and a 2.5 inch zorst. what (cheap) mods are recomended to make some more ponies? i am thinking: - 3inch zorst - the big cooler - 7m-gte injectors??? - more boost - how much is safe?? - turbo - dont want lag ie t3 cheers ppl [Report message to a moderator]

t18_psi
Occasional Poster

Location:
perth wa
Registered:
June 2005

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Wed, 15 June 2005 04:38

ooh and does the 3s-gte have the same exhaust manifold stud pattern as the 3t-gte? [Report message to a moderator]

TE72_Turbo
Forums Junkie

Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Wed, 15 June 2005 06:06

Quote:

ooh and does the 3s-gte have the same exhaust manifold stud pattern as the 3t-gte?

Definately not.

Put a programmable aftermarket ECU at the top of your list for mods. The standard computer leaves a lot to be desired.

[Report message to a moderator]

jackel
Forums Junkie

Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Wed, 15 June 2005 13:53

where'd you find this car? [Report message to a moderator]

t18_psi
Occasional Poster

Location:
perth wa
Registered:
June 2005

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Thu, 16 June 2005 07:43

i bought it unlicenced in waneroo, perth. ive been reading up and is it true that the 3t-gte computer is fuel only?? so upgrading it with say a megasquirt ecu eliminates the entire standard ecu?? how does the knock retard work then?? cheer people [Report message to a moderator]

Landmax
Occasional Poster

Location:
Canada
Registered:
May 2005

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Thu, 16 June 2005 08:58

put a ct26 on and u should b able to run 15 psi. with stock ecu and inj. runing on high octane fuel with no ping. I recommend getting a BOV. Coz I did. [Report message to a moderator]

ta23
Forums Junkie

Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Thu, 16 June 2005 13:42

I have front mount, CT20-B turbo, upgraded injecters / pumps, EMS, etc. This isnt a very laggy setup and has plenty of power [Report message to a moderator]

gearb0x
Forums Junkie

Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Thu, 16 June 2005 23:09

Landmax wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 18:58

I recommend getting a BOV. Coz I did.

Yeah its fuel only so a simple megasquirt setup will be no problem, if you look up Megasquirt-n-spark-extra it has experimental knock sensor input..

Full spark control is allways good, so u might be better off with 4x twinpost coils, a home made CAS and a suitable computer

[Updated on: Thu, 16 June 2005 23:10]

[Report message to a moderator]

rb20det
Regular

Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Fri, 17 June 2005 12:41

stage 1 bleed valve - boost to 12psi new fuel pump/ filter new spark plugs/ leads clean injectors polish throtle body run bp ultimate semi sythetic oil quality oil filter tune 20% to 30% increase in hp with these mods only ill post stage 2 3 and 4 if you like [Report message to a moderator]

TE72_Turbo
Forums Junkie

Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Fri, 17 June 2005 13:41

Quote:

tune

What exactly does a "tune" involve, setting the points & base timing perhaps? Laughing

[Report message to a moderator]

bunkyT18
Forums Junkie

Location:
Pilbara
Registered:
November 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Fri, 17 June 2005 13:56

The stock computer does not suck as much as some folk think. You can run a lot more horsies staying with the stockie but you have to trick the afm sensor (not very difficult to do) and replace the injectors with red denso's, theres more but to save time... Search for daytona's site on google and look for Matti's Carina running stock ecu making over 200rwkw's, no dramas. Lots of 3TGTEU info there. I would not bother running more than a 2.5 inch zorst on it LOTS of noise with questionably more gain And altho i too wonder exactly what a tune might involve with stock ecu, RB20DET has a good point, start by treating the motor to as much freshening up and tlc as you can. Makes good sense and insures less heartache if and when things go pearshaped. Actually you have many of the mods I have yet to do with my 1980 T18/3TGTEU but at least mines regoed lol. Consider that you will have to get it engineered or at least passed over the pits and it might actually make sense to downgrade your mods until the pits Nazis have had a suss. [Report message to a moderator]

rb20det
Regular

Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Sat, 18 June 2005 00:38

tune involes making sure timing is correct, it idles proplerly, adjust afm ect. with these mod i got 135rwkw on a standard motor. up from 99rwkw. duh what do u think tune means with no aftermarket computer. [Report message to a moderator]

bunkyT18
Forums Junkie

Location:
Pilbara
Registered:
November 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Sat, 18 June 2005 04:21

Hey RB20DET, I think most folk think tuning involves playing with fuel etc on a aftermarket ecu (dyno). Some people would think that what you are talking about is just basic maintenance, like checking the oil and water. I do agree though it's good to cover the basics, as I said in my last post. [Report message to a moderator]

rb20det
Regular

Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Sat, 18 June 2005 08:34

all im saying is your better of opimising what you have before spending 5-10 grand on a motor thats a pig to drive [Report message to a moderator]

gearb0x
Forums Junkie

Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Sat, 18 June 2005 08:55

i had a look at the guts of a 3tgte today, you could get it to work with aftermarket spark control just by locking up the advance and then running 1 ignitor to spark 2 coils at the time triggered by the ecu [Report message to a moderator]

t18_psi
Occasional Poster

Location:
perth wa
Registered:
June 2005

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Sun, 19 June 2005 02:22

hey guys thanks for the replies. ta-23 - you say you have a ct20-b turbo, whats the diff between ct20 and ct20b? eg less/more lag, better high end breathing?? yeah i know licencing it will be fun im going to tidy EVERYTHING up before i take it to the pits. otherwise they'll spot a couple of faults and proceed to pull the car to pieces. so putting on an aftermarket ecu - to have ignition control you need to remove the dizzy and make a new CAS? is this hard? i have no idea about the ignition side of things. also what 1/4 mile times are ppl getting with similar setups? im hoping for around 150rwhp all day everyday with the ability to tow a trailer without tearing sideways when boost hits hard at 4000rpm thanks for the info [Report message to a moderator]

ToyT18
Regular

Location:
Hobart
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Sun, 19 June 2005 05:51

Hey good to see another T-18 on here especialy with a 3TGTE . yeah like the others said clean everything up a bit wind a bit more boost 12psi is good my mate just got a RA23 he runs 12psi on that everyday and get that intercooler hooked up if you are going to be thrashing it ive seen those rubber fittings on the intake melt once on a sprinter going around a track that was on 10psi. i think the CT20B is just an unmarked CT26 with a ceramic turbine wheel. my mate also has what u could call a CT20B if they even exist and a CT26 from a 7MGTE but i am going to buy that one as it has steel wheel And both those turbos when sitting together look to be a similar size, i mean you might have to wait a little more for boost to come on but when it does youll love it. As for the stock ECU's ive been to daytonas website and seen that carina making 300hp with a stock ECU but i think thats probly been reprogrammed or something plus the cars from another country so there was probly a bit of miscomunication because i dont rekon they can support that much power but i dunno how well they actually work personally but ill find out when i put my engine in and do some mods fingers crossed they can handle a bit of power. the knock computer retards ignition timing on the engine to prevent detonation they are good as extend your engine life. [Report message to a moderator]

ToyT18
Regular

Location:
Hobart
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Sun, 19 June 2005 05:55

yeah upgrading with a wolf 2d or an old microtech or something like that will get rid of the std ecu and that way you can richen the mixture up a bit at certain points in the rev range so you dont lean it out when u run more boost. [Report message to a moderator]

ta23
Forums Junkie

Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Sun, 19 June 2005 14:02

t18_psi wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 12:22

hey guys thanks for the replies.

ta-23 - you say you have a ct20-b turbo, whats the diff between ct20 and ct20b? eg less/more lag, better high end breathing??

CT20-B turbo's are off 3rd gen 3SGTE's (ie: ST205 GT4), they are alot bigger and better than the CT20. Pics can be found in the link in my signature if your interested.

[Report message to a moderator]

bunkyT18
Forums Junkie

Location:
Pilbara
Registered:
November 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Mon, 20 June 2005 01:25

ToyT18, You don't qualify your response adequately enough for me I'm afraid. Have you actually finished building your motor yet? Did you try any of the mods you can do with a stock ECU? You 'reckon' that the ECU must have been 'reprogrammed'? It was not and I have had experience with plenty of other cars and motors modding both stock ECU and using aftermarket ECU's. Oh yeah, kilowats and HP are the same whjerever you are mate, regardless of what country you are in. I can assure you that the manufacturers spent considerable amounts of time and money on getting a economical, street driven motor with good performance. It will cost ya $ to set up a aftermarket ECU. I have seen people blow their motors too often by making only small errors with aftermarket ECU's. Oh yeah and the problem with these motors is not that they run too lean on slightly more boost with stock ECU's it's that they run too rich. Dont get me wrong though, I'm all for people doing whatever they farken want to do with their motors. Just does not seem to make sense to abandon something that already works pretty damn good. Another issue is that using an aftermarket ECU may not be legal? I know I have had hassles in the past with this kind of thing. Ended up using stock ECU's to get it over the pits and then chucking the 'thirsytek' on later. [Updated on: Mon, 20 June 2005 01:26] [Report message to a moderator]

t18_psi
Occasional Poster

Location:
perth wa
Registered:
June 2005

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Mon, 20 June 2005 02:29

so i earth the fuel cut sensor, dial in 12psi, intercooler, zorst, BP 98 and hope for 150rwhp then proceed to destroy the current t50 gbox [Report message to a moderator]

ta23
Forums Junkie

Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Mon, 20 June 2005 08:38

t18_psi wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 12:29

so i earth the fuel cut sensor, dial in 12psi, intercooler, zorst, BP 98 and hope for 150rwhp Smile

then proceed to destroy the current t50 gbox Razz

I am not sure how rb20det got 135rwkw with the mods he listed, I am not saying he didnt, but with my mods i produced 155hp @ around 10psi. Although it isnt running very well at the moment.

Would be interested to hear your results though if you do decide to do these mods.

[Report message to a moderator]

rb20det
Regular

Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Mon, 20 June 2005 08:55

155rwhp at 10psi isnt far off 135rwkw at 12psi and dyno opertors can fudge readings a bit so u go back to them [Report message to a moderator]

ToyT18
Regular

Location:
Hobart
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Mon, 20 June 2005 11:55

Bunky when i said from another country i mean the carina was, well how do you know the guy with the carina didnt mention that he wasnt using the stock ECU or that he didnt actually know what ECU is in it, its just i havent seen another 3TGTE making that much power with stock ECU's and if they could why arent more people using them, i am going to be and i am glad that they run more rich than lean im not bagging them out im just being cautious to what they can really do, show me another car making that much power with a std ECU and ill be fking over the moon and keep mine forever. i just want proof thats all im not saying they are shit, why would i bag out my own car, and no i havent built my motor yet im waiting on forged pistons. but a good mate of mine's dad has been toying with 3TGTE's for over 15 years and they have owned several and ive seen them and worked on one etc and do research on this shit. [Report message to a moderator]

Toy3T Ra28
Occasional Poster

Registered:
November 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Mon, 20 June 2005 13:46

Hi all, just thought i should have a say in here too!, my 3T-gte puts out ~148rwkw on 10psi, essentially stock, other than well tuned microtech, front mount and good fuel, just cant get this battery\alternator thing sorted yet !... [Report message to a moderator]

ta23
Forums Junkie

Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Mon, 20 June 2005 13:51

rb20det wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 18:55

155rwhp at 10psi isnt far off 135rwkw at 12psi and dyno opertors can fudge readings a bit so u go back to them

Yea i am aware of this, but mine has alot more mods than what you had listed, mine has CT20-B turbo(rebuilt), front mount, haltech etc.

[Report message to a moderator]

bunkyT18
Forums Junkie

Location:
Pilbara
Registered:
November 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Tue, 21 June 2005 05:37

Hey ToyT18,
I know you are not bagging your own car mate. We all got love for the 'one eight' lol It's pretty clear that he was using the stock ECU. That was the whole point of him putting the info up on the net. I suppose technically he was not using the 'stock ecu' as he had disabled the boost cut and tricked a few sensors. If you check it out he has made some pretty clever mods elsewhere, especially in his fuel delivery. I admit it's some pretty extreme figures to quote without backing em up in some way. I was not trying to say anything about your experience or knowledge, although after reading my post I can see how you might have taken it that way. My apologies bro.

It's clear that some 'stock' 3TGTEUs put out substantially more horsies than others. I put it down to two reasons;

1. The motor is in better nick and everything is running sweet as so you get very good results. As compared to one running in need of a overhaul or rebuild. Not to mention annoying shit like boost leaks and ignition problems.

2. Dyno readouts vary greatly between dyno's on the same car. As an example, I had a import Cordia (yeh I know, u either luv em or hate em) running a MICROTECH Digi1 with a few intake mods and a TD04 (wrx turbo) built as a traffic light warrior and it blew the doors off lots of much better cars from the lights. It only put out 115.5hp at the treads but it made all it's grunt down low. It was shit on a highway. So HP does mean not much unless you figure in torque as well. I got it dynoed at another place and they quoted me the same figure almost in kw!

Quote:

but mine has alot more mods than what you had listed

Ta23
Mods don't always equal results mate. At the end of the day it's the basics of engine building and performance that make for the fast times and big dyno runs.

Plenty of 'modded' cars out there that deliver weaker figures than the same car stock...

[Updated on: Tue, 21 June 2005 05:43]

[Report message to a moderator]

The Untouchable
Forums Junkie

Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Tue, 21 June 2005 06:20

so what are the best upgraded injectors with performance and price in mind? what size are the standard injectors? i want to upgrade but i dont want to spend shitloads initially buying them and having to mod manifolds etc. so what have u guys found to be the easiest cheapest and most effective injector upgrade? also, i have a microtech ltx, im not really confident hooking that up to the 3tgte myself, and i cant afford to get it hooked atm...could anyone help me out or give me some advice. if anyones in victoria id quite happily pay them. [Report message to a moderator]

TA22 GT
Regular

Registered:
November 2002

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Tue, 21 June 2005 11:34

Thought I'd give my 2 cents worth on the 3T GTE. I had a fair amount of correspondence with Matti a few years ago and I also mucked around with the stock ECU and did get reasonable results. Around 125rwkw. In the end I used bigger injectors as well as using the stock 3T GTE AFM internals and fitted them in a 1GGTE AFM cause its about 25% bigger. Then I fooled the AFM by tensioning the spring. This does work but its nowhere near as good as an aftermarket ECU. Mainly cause you have to tune the stock ECU for top end power and then it comes at the expense of poor idle, cold start issues etc. Or you can get it better down low and then you lose out at the top end. No doubt Matti pushed it to the limit, and his engine would have been on edge the whole time. Also, he was very good with electronics, much more than most of us. So I think its easier to give the stock ECU a miss. Its old technology and really not worth the hassle in my opinion,. I now has an LTX8 Microtech and have 145rwkw at 14psi. Still running stock internals including pistons. Full details are on my site.I completely wired the Microtech and had it running in just over a day. Cya, Simon http://users.chariot.net.au/~stmezz/celica.htm [Report message to a moderator]

The Untouchable
Forums Junkie

Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Wed, 22 June 2005 04:27

is it a difficult system to wire with the sensors and so forth? [Report message to a moderator]

ToyT18
Regular

Location:
Hobart
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Wed, 22 June 2005 09:07

im sorry too bunky ive never really used one myself yet. i know what u mean about 3TGTE's having varying power outputs as they are over 20 years old and most engines that havent been rebuilt over that amount of time compared to a freshly built one are going to be alot different depending on how the older motor was treated. TA22 GT thats bloddy good power out put, is that using a ct20? or larger turbo, what other mods did you have [Report message to a moderator]

ta23
Forums Junkie

Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Wed, 22 June 2005 14:23

bunkyT18 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 15:37

Quote:

but mine has alot more mods than what you had listed

I understand that modded car can deliver less than stock performance results, but the mods I have done to my engine are upgrades that plenty of 3TGTE owners have carried out to their engines and have had good results.

I dont see how an engine rebuild, upgraded fuel system, ECU, Bigger high flowed turbo, exhaust etc etc could yeild less results than a stock 3TGTE. These type of mods are carried out by all car enthusiasts to increase performance.

My car still has a few issues to sort out, so I am expecting more power from it, but I was just a little shocked to see such high power results with only the standard turbo, one being almost 25rwkw more than mine @ same boost pressure, yet the turbo on mine is alot bigger (without being too big) and highflowed + associated mods to cope.

Could you please explain this?

Cheers,
Mitch.

[Report message to a moderator]

4agte
Forums Junkie

Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Wed, 22 June 2005 14:42

rb20det wrote on Sat, 18 June 2005 10:38

tune duh what do u think tune means with no aftermarket computer. Rolling Eyes

i thought it meant checking to make sure the fan belt was tensioned properly

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TA22 GT
Regular

Registered:
November 2002

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Wed, 22 June 2005 15:34

ToyT18 wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 19:07

TA22 GT thats bloddy good power out put, is that using a ct20? or larger turbo, what other mods did you have

I have bigger injectors, Microtech LTX8 ECU, EVO 5 intercooler, BOV, custom exhaust manifold with GT25 BB Turbo, full 3 inch exhaust and all stock internals.

Currently making a CAS and custom intake plenum, aiming for around 200rwkw.

Cheers,
Simon
http://users.chariot.net.au/~stmezz/celica.htm

[Report message to a moderator]

ToyT18
Regular

Location:
Hobart
Registered:
July 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Thu, 23 June 2005 08:11

fu*king wicked im just rebuilding mine at the moment waiting on these bloody rods i wanted H beams but i just got stocks and i might shot pein them but i am getting forged arias pistons when i send a stock one away to them, So later on i can get a fair bit more power and dont have to open the engine up again. but 200rwkw from a 3TGTE would be a very frkn nice thing a achive. [Report message to a moderator]

bunkyT18
Forums Junkie

Location:
Pilbara
Registered:
November 2004

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Mon, 27 June 2005 01:30

Just a belated correction for you all. Matti's car was quoted as pushing 310hp not kw. It's also unclear as to whether this is a wheel rating or at the fly. (Retreats back into cave) Mitch; Mate I'm not pretending to know the nature of your mods and for all I know they may be the ducks nuts. My point was that it is actually common for stock setups to beat modded ones. There are a number of reasons for this ranging from dodgy Intercooler piping, heatsink etc, to incorrect tuning. Of all the things that can go wrong, I'd say it would have to be the tuning of an aftermarket ECU rating as the number one stuffup for modded cars. If you are really interested, read Julian Edgars '21st Century Performance' to give a more detailed rundown. Julian knows what he is talking about and has been a Tech Guru for various motor mags over the years and Edits 'Autospeed' online. [Updated on: Mon, 27 June 2005 01:49] [Report message to a moderator]

ta23
Forums Junkie

Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Mon, 27 June 2005 08:46

bunkyT18 wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 11:30

Mitch;
Mate I'm not pretending to know the nature of your mods and for all I know they may be the ducks nuts. My point was that it is actually common for stock setups to beat modded ones. There are a number of reasons for this ranging from dodgy Intercooler piping, heatsink etc, to incorrect tuning. Of all the things that can go wrong, I'd say it would have to be the tuning of an aftermarket ECU rating as the number one stuffup for modded cars. If you are really interested, read Julian Edgars '21st Century Performance' to give a more detailed rundown. Julian knows what he is talking about and has been a Tech Guru for various motor mags over the years and Edits 'Autospeed' online.

Yes I do understand that stock setups can produce more power and out perform modded examples of the same engine, when you said......

bunkyT18 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 15:37

Quote:

but mine has alot more mods than what you had listed

I got the impression that you were directing at my mods etc. and was just curious how this added up.

Anyway putting all this aside, I would be very interested if anyone could recomend any workshops who know the 3TGTE motor well, would be looking at a possible re-tune (if needed) so knowledge of Haltech computers would also be a bonus.

Am from Wagga Wagga, would be looking at workshops in the Sydney area, or closer to me.

Cheers,
Mitch.

[Report message to a moderator]

roids70
Regular

Location:
Tasmania, Evandale
Registered:
April 2005

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods	Fri, 12 August 2005 09:43

yeh dude, its good to see poeple out there doin up T-18, its good to see someone else interested in them, im trying to do one of mine up but i dont really got enough money for mods, so i just stick with a standard 3tc for the time being, well anywayt well done with ur find and good like with everything Cheers sean! [Report message to a moderator]

mrshin
Forums Junkie

Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002

Re: recomended 3t-gte mods

Fri, 12 August 2005 14:26

The Untouchable wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 16:20

so what are the best upgraded injectors with performance and price in mind? what size are the standard injectors? i want to upgrade but i dont want to spend shitloads initially buying them and having to mod manifolds etc.
so what have u guys found to be the easiest cheapest and most effective injector upgrade?

also, i have a microtech ltx, im not really confident hooking that up to the 3tgte myself, and i cant afford to get it hooked atm...could anyone help me out or give me some advice. if anyones in victoria id quite happily pay them.

Hooking up the ECU needn't be that hard; can you hold a soldering iron, and do you know how heatshrink works?

[Report message to a moderator]

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