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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Mon, 13 June 2005 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thetoyman75 wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 01:27

86tt,

Speeding DOES kill/injure, it also damages other peoples property. There really is no excuse for travelling at twice the speed limit, hell any 80zone is most likely suburban so it was hardly the place for it by anyones standards. Track days at Wakefield park and eastern Creek are frequent and affordable, its only the small dicked wanna be's who have to try and prove themselves on the steet.

You can say how no one was hurt all you like but tell me how you would feel if they were... And it was your mum/brother/child or even just your pride and joy ?

Take a good long look at your thought process and consier the wider picture. Then dig out your dads pink floyd albums and spend the rest of the day agreeing with them !


hey, I don't see where I ever mentioned it was alright to double the speed limit on a 80km/h road, just because you're the president of the club, don't start putting words in my mouth.

speeding doesn't kill, collision does, the government have reduced speed limits throughout the whole country, but people are still smashing up other people's cars, what is the reason? What's wrong? If you really don't want anyone to be killed in a road accident, then you actually need to put a limit of 25km/h on anything and everything, but what could happen then? Where's the advantage?

Now how would you feel if you parents or relatives were mistreated in a hospital, or a victim of other violent crimes which the government clearly aren't doing anything to improve the situation, now are you more likely to die of some idiot/hoon driving double the speed limit? Or are you more likely to be a victim of other terrible things, (back to the statistical death rate) don't let emotions take over just because of the media's propaganda.

The stupid and the hoons will always be there doesn't matter what you do, and the only thing you can do to prevent them from doing big damage, is more education and training, how drivers should response when they spot hoons, more observation to spot hoons so they don't get smashed up by them, training to improve last seconds decisions to brake, accelerate or swerve to get out of tricky/dangerous situations, but does anyone care? Put a car in 50% of people's hands, and they can't even bring their car effectively to a halt in an emergency situation, why should these people be driving a car in the first place? They're doing effectively the same damage as any other hoons if not more, look at the accident and death rate, does it really all consist of idiots driving 160km/h in a 80km/h zone? I can dare say these hoons isn't even significant in the statistics. Most major accidents and deaths consists of drugs, alcohol, and poor decision making, crossing over other cars' path etc. And you support the idea speed kills?
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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Mon, 13 June 2005 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
actually, come to think of it, it may be interesting to work out...

What is the chance (rate in % or 1/1,000,000) of this happening in Australia...

Get raped
Get Murdered
Get Robbed (in the streets being held-up, or break in robbery)
Die in hospital due to mal-treatment
Render disabled (physically or psychologically) in hospital due to mal-treatment
Suicide
Drug addiction
Drug Overdose
Killed by Cancer
Killed by a flu
Killed by other disease
and the classic: Get hit by a speeding fine!!! Laughing (I've heard each year there's about 300,000-400,000 handed out per year, why is so many idiots still speeding eh? Or did the government expect that?)
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WiLo
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Re: Need Legal Advice Tue, 14 June 2005 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 08:01



speeding doesn't kill, collision does

so if your in an accident where the speed limit is 60 and one of the people is travelling at 80 the consequences arent going to be worse off?

edit: typo

[Updated on: Tue, 14 June 2005 09:28]

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thetoyman75
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Re: Need Legal Advice Tue, 14 June 2005 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 08:16

actually, come to think of it, it may be interesting to work out...

What is the chance (rate in % or 1/1,000,000) of this happening in Australia...

Get raped
Get Murdered
Get Robbed (in the streets being held-up, or break in robbery)
Die in hospital due to mal-treatment
Render disabled (physically or psychologically) in hospital due to mal-treatment
Suicide
Drug addiction
Drug Overdose
Killed by Cancer
Killed by a flu
Killed by other disease
and the classic: Get hit by a speeding fine!!! Laughing (I've heard each year there's about 300,000-400,000 handed out per year, why is so many idiots still speeding eh? Or did the government expect that?)



I recon the chance of you getting a black eye or a fat lip of a weekend is better than all of the above Wink


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thu187
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Re: Need Legal Advice Tue, 14 June 2005 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Thu, 09 June 2005 15:42


This is a problem with his parents and peers if this "kid" really exist, if this parent can keep giving him performance vehicle although he's wrecked a few, this would certainly mean $thousands of fines won't affect him either, would it? And you think the system is working?



You forget that speeding fines come with loss of demerit points. It's now 3 for 15km/h over the limit.
So on a full license.. it means that kid can get busted speeding 4 times and then no more license. I think that's a pretty good system Smile

Also don't bother justifying your speeding because it's 'not as bad as other crimes'. You can't show up to court for robbing an old lady and say "at least I didn't rape her" and if you did you'd be a complete idiot.
How many people are saved from speeding fines? Lots of people are down to a few points because they get speeding fines and it stops them from speeding so that they don't lose their license. You can't put a value on it.
Also don't use the excuse you're a youth. I am and alot of other people on this forum are too. Nobody put a gun to your head and made you plant your foot down.
I hope you be fully sick and speed on your way to 'maccaz bro' and write off a few cars in the process and spend the next couple of years paying it off. That'd teach you.
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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Tue, 14 June 2005 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WiLo wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 19:25

86tt wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 08:01



speeding doesn't kill, collision does

so if your in an accident where the speed limit is 60 and one of the people is travelling at 80 the consequences arent going to be worse off?

edit: typo


sorry man, but physics isn't as simple as that, it's not if you travelled 60km/h you won't get killed, but if you travelled 80km/h you'll get killed, this is not a number game, you can view it two different way, 1st. if you travelled avg 80km/h, you spend 33% (actual may be 20-30%) less time on the road, so lesser chance of an accident happening, and that's what cause most death, they're pure accidents, or if you were travelling 60km/h you may have got a frontal smash, or at 65km/h you may get t-boned, and if at 70km/h you may get clipped in the tail and if you were travelling at 80km/h you may have missed the accident all together, there's just way too many variables to consider other than just the numbers... and another things that contributes to accidents and toll rate is, education, driver attitude, driver training in emergency situations, driver observation and judgement, decision makings, drugs and alcohol and fatigue, isn't that way more important than wipe 10km/h off the speed or even wipe 30km/h off the speed? What's the danger of a 3 lane highway with no other traffic and travelling at 150km/h? A piano is going to drop from the sky and land in front of your car? What's the danger of driving 80km/h in a 60km/h posted speed where the flow of traffic is travelling 80km/h??

Quote:

Also don't bother justifying your speeding because it's 'not as bad as other crimes'. You can't show up to court for robbing an old lady and say "at least I didn't rape her" and if you did you'd be a complete idiot.

thu187: I think you are completely missing the point, I'm not saying you can continue to do dangerous things on the road, that's beyond the point, but the system should hand the responsibility back to the driver, to learn to make their own good judgement, read through all the previous post and think again. Don't put stupid words in my mouth.

Speeding isn't something that everybody should get emotional about just because the media saids so, so many other people gets abused or die of other horrible causes, which causes just as much pain and grief to their family and friends, but they're not getting the correct amount of attention?!?! The reason? Because it doesn't give the government any joy or profits to catch a true criminal, everyone's a tax payer and they should be living in a world which is as ideal as possible.

Quote:

Also don't use the excuse you're a youth. I am and alot of other people on this forum are too. Nobody put a gun to your head and made you plant your foot down.
I hope you be fully sick and speed on your way to 'maccaz bro' and write off a few cars in the process and spend the next couple of years paying it off. That'd teach you.


This is the point, back to the word "education", maybe you are too young to understand, everyone is brought up differently, a good example is, you were brought up with the government, telling you all the time, speed kills, every k is a killer, and you really believed them, but for other problem child/teenager, maybe their parents and guardian didn't pay them too much attention, and they were brought up in the wrong manner, their peers may be telling them, speeding is cool, I've driven 200km/h here and there and all those crap, or they were brought up in a violent city and thinks he will solve everything by his fist and they believed it... Just the same way you believed "speed kills" and you'll probably never will get over it too by the look of things, and who is to blame? The government is exploiting your emotions with the help of the media and you've got conned, badly!
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thu187
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Re: Need Legal Advice Tue, 14 June 2005 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 00:21



thu187: I think you are completely missing the point, I'm not saying you can continue to do dangerous things on the road, that's beyond the point, but the system should hand the responsibility back to the driver, to learn to make their own good judgement, read through all the previous post and think again. Don't put stupid words in my mouth.

No, it's not beyond the point, it's the point we're talking about. The system DOES hand responsibility to the driver! What are you talking about? If I am caught speeding I am held responsible, not somebody else. Please explain what you mean.
86tt wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 00:21


So many other people gets abused or die of other horrible causes, which causes just as much pain and grief to their family and friends, but they're not getting the correct amount of attention?!?! The reason? Because it doesn't give the government any joy or profits to catch a true criminal, everyone's a tax payer and they should be living in a world which is as ideal as possible.

The reason it gets the amount of attention it gets is because it is unnecessary! In a murder, someone is killed. The intent is to kill and it is a criminal act. With speeding:
1. It CAN kill.
2. Most importantly it is avoidable and wreckless.
You don't HAVE to speed. Nobody is forcing you to. When these young people drive too fast (speed) and smash into poles and die it COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED. That's why speeding fatalaties are a tragedy. This is why there are so many anti-speeding campaigns. Believe it or not people don't want to be hit by your idiotic self travelling at 160km/h. If you want to die then that's your business. What would you like them to do? Bring on campaigns saying "Don't murder. It's not bad luck, it's a crime" ?
The reason they are telling people and warn people not to do it is because it is AVOIDABLE! If you need to get somewhere at a certain time and it's important then you should plan to leave early.

86tt wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 00:21


This is the point, back to the word "education", maybe you are too young to understand, everyone is brought up differently, a good example is, you were brought up with the government, telling you all the time, speed kills, every k is a killer, and you really believed them,

but for other problem child/teenager, maybe their parents and guardian didn't pay them too much attention, and they were brought up in the wrong manner, their peers may be telling them, speeding is cool, I've driven 200km/h here and there and all those crap,

or they were brought up in a violent city and thinks he will solve everything by his fist and they believed it... Just the same way you believed "speed kills" and you'll probably never will get over it too by the look of things, and who is to blame? The government is exploiting your emotions with the help of the media and you've got conned, badly!

Now who is putting stupid things in whose mouth? First of all don't patronise me, you're probably the same age as I am.
Secondly people are brought up differently, that's true. We still know right from wrong. I don't think you understand. Myself and others on this forum are not complaining that you drove 15 or 20km/h over the limit. You drove 80 f*cking kilometres over the limit and you think you can justify that? Are you telling me you can control your car perfectly at that speed? Why not get out on the track and show everyone then.
And where the hell where you going that required you to drive 80km/h over the speed limit? Answer me that.
Speeding DOES kill. People like you speed along and then a car pulls out and they're not able to stop in time or lose control and kill themselves. I'm not saying it happens all the time and speeding automatically means death (which you seem to think I mean).


At the end of the day 86tt, there are laws in this country. I don't care what your background is or how you were raised. If you're going to break the law then suffer the consequences. If you think speeding kills or if you think driving 200km/h on streets is cool or if you believe 'you will solve everything with your fist' Rolling Eyes guess what?
The law doesn't change! The law is the same for EVERYONE.
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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Wed, 15 June 2005 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thu187 wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 01:35

The reason it gets the amount of attention it gets is because it is unnecessary! In a murder, someone is killed. The intent is to kill and it is a criminal act. With speeding:
1. It CAN kill.
2. Most importantly it is avoidable and wreckless.
You don't HAVE to speed. Nobody is forcing you to. When these young people drive too fast (speed) and smash into poles and die it COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED. That's why speeding fatalaties are a tragedy. This is why there are so many anti-speeding campaigns. Believe it or not people don't want to be hit by your idiotic self travelling at 160km/h. If you want to die then that's your business. What would you like them to do? Bring on campaigns saying "Don't murder. It's not bad luck, it's a crime" ?
The reason they are telling people and warn people not to do it is because it is AVOIDABLE! If you need to get somewhere at a certain time and it's important then you should plan to leave early.

Sorry, I think the other things that are killing more people are not murder, actually it's more like influenza and hospital mal-practice, and these CAN BE AVOIDED.
No you don't bring in marketing campaign to stop murder, drugs and robbery etc. you put in more police investigation to catch and penalise the ones that are doing the intentional harm, I'm sure a rough figure will say much more than 50% of the police force is allocated to highway patrol, and the 400,000 speeders per year doesn't actually do any damage (as proven all over the world that people that actually get killed, are actually driving BELOW the limit and only 2-3% drive over the limit and gets killed, the other factors are alcohol and drugs, fatigue and inexperience)

Quote:

Now who is putting stupid things in whose mouth? First of all don't patronise me, you're probably the same age as I am.
Secondly people are brought up differently, that's true. We still know right from wrong.

Then isn't education more important than penalising people? So what do you think about the new complicated P-plates law? Will speed camera enforce these kind of law?

Quote:

I don't think you understand. Myself and others on this forum are not complaining that you drove 15 or 20km/h over the limit. You drove 80 f*cking kilometres over the limit and you think you can justify that? Are you telling me you can control your car perfectly at that speed? Why not get out on the track and show everyone then.
And where the hell where you going that required you to drive 80km/h over the speed limit? Answer me that.

WTF!!!! Go back and read through all the messages, all I've said previously was the road is probably supposed to be more than 80km/h, the speed limits on our roads are mostly set at the 50% percentile where only 50% of people comply, on a rough estimate, that road at 85% percentile should have been at least posted at 110km/h, would've meant he was actually around 35km/h over the maximum safe speed. And I would call that pure stupidity, which is what I said and what I labeled, which I said is a problem in the education of parents, peers, government, and primary schools & high schools. AND I'm not the one speeding, you confused bugger... Surprised

Quote:

Speeding DOES kill. People like you speed along and then a car pulls out and they're not able to stop in time or lose control and kill themselves. I'm not saying it happens all the time and speeding automatically means death (which you seem to think I mean).

Sure it does, and we have a system that targets 2% of bad drivers and penalise 98% of the good drivers, no wonder we gets so much infringement tickets every year! Isn't that surprising?

Quote:

At the end of the day 86tt, there are laws in this country.

I must say the laws are pretty much flawed and corrupted, leaving the justice to a machine and an individual police officers which certainly can be biased, machines that are very much less than 100% accurate, and you get the treatment of "guilty until proven innocent", which the court is so corrupted that they treat the speed cameras and laser guns 100% accurate doesn't matter what your driving record was, doesn't matter if you were a good driver to start with, the cops doesn't even have to show you the readings or prove to you that the readings was yours in the first place, ie. they could just stop you and accuse you of speeding 15km/h over the limit, I know most of them wouldn't, but what do you know? There's always bad apples. And in court, your mouth vs the police officers & the machines, the win rate is 0%, don't tell me this is not corrupted!

back to the point about responsibility to the driver, I give you an example, I used to be able to drive where I'll just know/feel that I'm driving at 60km/h, and don't have to look at the speedo and I'm 95% very accurate, and when there's traffic, I'll just go with the flow of the traffic.
Since the speed enforcement comes in, I can't risk not to look at the speedo, I'll get my eyes looking at the roads ahead, checking for hazards, checking side roads, driveway, right hand side streets where people can bolt out, rear mirror, checking for traffic on left and right lanes, making sure I notice people that change lanes when their lane ends, or when they have cars turning right when they will just change to your lane, checking blind spots, making sure I leave enough buffer on the left, right front and back... Then the hard bit comes in, I have to try to read the speed, get my eyes adjusted to the different light condition, get it to "focus" which takes 1/2 a second at least, then read and confirm the speed, which takes another 1/2 second, then when I look back to the traffic in front, it'll take my eyes to focus again which takes another 1/2 second, that's almost 1.5 seconds that I haven't been looking at the traffic, at 60km/h, this is like having an extra 1.5 seconds reaction time, what does this equate to blood alcohol level? 0.08? Speed limits and speedos should only be used as an indicator, posted speed limits should be useful and accurate to assist new drivers, but when it's enforced blindly, it causes chaos, accidents, confusion, and mostly breakdown of the police-public relations and respect. Why haven't the road toll rate gone down although emergency and medical treatment and car safety have improved so much over the last decades and a half?

[Updated on: Wed, 15 June 2005 00:34]

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Merudo
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Re: Need Legal Advice Wed, 15 June 2005 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 10:32




back to the point about responsibility to the driver, I give you an example, I used to be able to drive where I'll just know/feel that I'm driving at 60km/h, and don't have to look at the speedo and I'm 95% very accurate, and when there's traffic, I'll just go with the flow of the traffic.
Since the speed enforcement comes in, I can't risk not to look at the speedo, I'll get my eyes looking at the roads ahead, checking for hazards, checking side roads, driveway, right hand side streets where people can bolt out, rear mirror, checking for traffic on left and right lanes, making sure I notice people that change lanes when their lane ends, or when they have cars turning right when they will just change to your lane, checking blind spots, making sure I leave enough buffer on the left, right front and back... Then the hard bit comes in, I have to try to read the speed, get my eyes adjusted to the different light condition, get it to "focus" which takes 1/2 a second at least, then read and confirm the speed, which takes another 1/2 second, then when I look back to the traffic in front, it'll take my eyes to focus again which takes another 1/2 second, that's almost 1.5 seconds that I haven't been looking at the traffic, at 60km/h, this is like having an extra 1.5 seconds reaction time, what does this equate to blood alcohol level? 0.08? Speed limits and speedos should only be used as an indicator, posted speed limits should be useful and accurate to assist new drivers, but when it's enforced blindly, it causes chaos, accidents, confusion, and mostly breakdown of the police-public relations and respect. Why haven't the road toll rate gone down although emergency and medical treatment and car safety have improved so much over the last decades and a half?




Nod indeed.



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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Wed, 15 June 2005 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Point to add: Average reaction time of blood alcohol level of 0.08 is 0.276 seconds, and top reaction times of fighter pilots are 0.200-0.225 seconds, so I assume a normal person will have average 0.245 seconds reaction time...

Consistantly checking the speedo while trying to keep up with the flow of traffic takes at least 1 second for a car that you're familiar with, and will take at least 1.5 seconds for a car that you aren't familiar with, how much will this impact safety? How will this impact safety on major highways at medium to high flow traffic?

Reaction time studies:
URL: http://mednews.stanford.edu/releases/1999/seprelea ses/reaction.html
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HSV_gal
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Re: Need Legal Advice Thu, 16 June 2005 02:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OK this is what I would call an absolute shit fight!
And I can't believe that I just spent 1/2 an hour trying to read and decipher this dribble.

It's plan and simple really.
They make rules to keep everybody safe so the key is just don't break them.

86tt.
Have you not seen the add with the truck and the 2 falcons. Done in Controlled conditions and with professional drivers, 1 traveling 5 kl-m's faster than the other. If you think that it is the reaction times and lack of education that is the major issue on the roads, then explain that ad to me and probably the rest of the world.
BTW, how did a thread turn from "I've been a dick head and got done, what do I do now?" to this shit fight?
I did not read anywhere in the original post about rape, murder or any other crime.

Speedy.
160klm's is just not called for, and then thinking of running your way out of it. pretty stupid. I'd say find yourself some representation then grab your ankles and take it like a man.
There are times and places for this type of behaver and suburban streets is just not the place.
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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Thu, 16 June 2005 02:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HSV_gal wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 12:12


86tt.
Have you not seen the add with the truck and the 2 falcons. Done in Controlled conditions and with professional drivers, 1 traveling 5 kl-m's faster than the other. If you think that it is the reaction times and lack of education that is the major issue on the roads, then explain that ad to me and probably the rest of the world.


WHAT THE?!?!!! I never knew anyone that really believed in that ridiculous commercial... hahaha...

Go back and start reading the point about what causes accidents... And ask yourself the below questions...

  • What if you were travelling faster, would the exact same situation happen?
  • Do trucks really back out a driveway anywhere anytime?
  • How many percentage of the road toll is caused by a truck backing out of a driveway?
  • If it such scenario actually happened, would you really have locked your brakes and skid into the truck?
  • What driving skill could you have applied to avoid such situation in the first place? (read above about what usually happens when I'm driving)
  • Are we supposed to swerve around cars and trucks reversing out of driveway anywhere anytime?
  • How much time you save on the road in terms of percentage? (research on internet about: travelling time vs risk = accident rate)
  • When accident happens, does it really matter what speed you were travelling? (don't refer to the commercial, as you should've worked out it's plain BS by now)


and no, reaction time doesn't really come into the equation, research shows the reaction time of blood alcohol level of 0.08 is only delayed 0.031 seconds, but no where is drink driving acceptable as it will encourage poor judgement, and will also make the driver fall asleep in front of the wheel...

read thru the post again, you're missing the point again, the point is "speed kills" shouldn't be the major priority, your emotions are being exploited, and the only reason why the media makes it such a big deal is, it's because the whole system is corrupted, including the legal system, and it earns the government SERIOUS amount of money, and don't tell me that's a good thing... Don't you even stop to wonder where all the tax, all the fuel tax, all the speeding infringements, where do they go?? It doesn't go back to the public as it supposed to does it?
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HSV_gal
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Re: Need Legal Advice Thu, 16 June 2005 03:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
look, I'll put it this way,
You travelling down a street with an x speed limit doing xx klm's and a child runs out on the road, you cannot pull the car up ontime and hit the child.
It is a known and Documented fact that it takes longer to stop a vehicle the faster it is moving no matter how good a driver you are..
How about you go away and think about a few things yourself and do some proper research, no just that that intrests you and "sort of" backs your point of view.

Speed limits are set down for a reason, abide by them or get the fuck off the road.

As for the revenue raised from fines. where do you think that the fucking government gets their money from... what they have their own personal mint out the back that they just used when needed????

Wake up to yourself.
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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Thu, 16 June 2005 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HSV_gal wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 13:19

look, I'll put it this way,
You travelling down a street with an x speed limit doing xx klm's and a child runs out on the road, you cannot pull the car up ontime and hit the child.
It is a known and Documented fact that it takes longer to stop a vehicle the faster it is moving no matter how good a driver you are..
How about you go away and think about a few things yourself and do some proper research, no just that that intrests you and "sort of" backs your point of view.

Speed limits are set down for a reason, abide by them or get the fuck off the road.

As for the revenue raised from fines. where do you think that the fucking government gets their money from... what they have their own personal mint out the back that they just used when needed????

Wake up to yourself.


you drive down a road and a child jumps out the road, doesn't matter if you were driving 20km/h - 200km/h the child is dead if you hit it, and if you were paying attention (and wasn't trying to look at your speedo), either you would've swerve, and if you couldn't swerve in time, that means there no time WHATSOEVER to try and slow down, the child is DEAD, which is unless you're travelling < 10km/h... so don't let your emotion take over your analysising skills..

Documented pedestrian accidents all shows no braking response from driver, and most of these pedestrians are drunks which they must be, to jump out the road. And whose parents would let their child play on the roads? You think this is a playground? There's parks and backgrounds to play in, but I think in actual fact there aren't any children killed on the road, which means the parents are doing their job fine... And shows how the media is playing with emotions and childrens to brain wash more people with a minority case.
Having said that, I think the suburban speed limit is doing fine at 50 or 60km/h, a capable/decent driver would've slowed down even to 40km/h if he noticed any pedestrians or children playing around the place anyway, I would've slowed right down if there's any children around the streets, AND IT IS THE PEDESTRIAN's responsibility to be noticed by any passing cars on the road, you don't jump out to the road and expect the driver to stop in time not to hit you. That's called suicide.


so you agree that they are actually raising revenue? If they want to raise revenue, they do it by documented tax, they've got enough tax by fuel tax and GST, not by ripping extra money from fines, by which 95%+ of those penalised were a good driver to start with anyway... If they wanted to rip more tax, just say so, not by using the excuse "Road Safety" while actually compromising road safety!

[Updated on: Thu, 16 June 2005 03:41]

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Yian
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Re: Need Legal Advice Thu, 16 June 2005 03:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rolling Eyes
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HSV_gal
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Re: Need Legal Advice Thu, 16 June 2005 03:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 13:31



you drive down a road and a child jumps out the road, doesn't matter if you were driving 20km/h - 200km/h the child is dead if you hit it, and if you were paying attention (and wasn't trying to look at your speedo), either you would've swerve, and if you couldn't swerve in time, that means there no time WHATSOEVER to try and slow down, the child is DEAD, which is unless you're travelling < 10km/h... so don't let your emotion take over your analysising skills..

Documented pedestrian accidents all shows no braking response from driver, and most of these pedestrians are drunks which they must be, to jump out the road. And whose parents would let their child play on the roads? You think this is a playground? There's parks and backgrounds to play in, but I think in actual fact there aren't any children killed on the road, which means the parents are doing their job fine...

so you agree that they are actually raising revenue? If they want to raise revenue, they do it by documented tax, not by ripping extra money from fines, by which 95%+ of those penalised were a good driver to start with anyway..


OK
A: I know of 5 people( that I actually know) in the last 8 years that I have lived in Sydney that have been hit by cars travelling at the right speed and servived. one of them being a 2 yr old child.

ALso it is clearly obvious that you do not have children.
It is not a matter of letting them play on roads, but how many children do as the are told 24/7???? Not one.. it is not in their nature. and considering I have a 2 yr old that has been brought up in this club and thinks that cars or cool and great to play with, he has no fear of the road what so ever, so just getting him to the park is sometimes a life altering experence.
Children are unpredictable and they don't carry big neon signs telling people what they are about to do next.

yes I do beleive that the fines are revenue raising, but if you get off your high horse and thing about where that money does actually go in some ways it is actually good for the country.

Hell to too long ago I got a rather nasty fine which i would not of got if the clock in my car was at the right time and not 5 minutes fast. 58 in a 40 zone 9:28 am. Road is normally a 60 zone outside school hours and I had 2 mins and I would of been doing under the speed limit. but hey almost $400 and 3 point later. but hell.. in the end it was my fault.

Point is if you don't want to pay the fine then don't do the crime.
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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Thu, 16 June 2005 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
[quote title=HSV_gal wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 13:51]
OK
A: I know of 5 people( that I actually know) in the last 8 years that I have lived in Sydney that have been hit by cars travelling at the right speed and servived. one of them being a 2 yr old child.


I'd like to see a 2 year old get hit at the right speed: 50km/h and survive Surprised


Quote:

ALso it is clearly obvious that you do not have children.
It is not a matter of letting them play on roads, but how many children do as the are told 24/7???? Not one.. it is not in their nature. and considering I have a 2 yr old that has been brought up in this club and thinks that cars or cool and great to play with, he has no fear of the road what so ever, so just getting him to the park is sometimes a life altering experence.
Children are unpredictable and they don't carry big neon signs telling people what they are about to do next.

No, they are unpredictable, but if it's hard enough to keep them under watch, and make sure that you teach them from day 1, that it's an absolute NO NO NO!!! to get near the road, and keep them indoor or strapped (I see kids being strapped.. Very Happy) if necessary, then you must be the one responsible, you don't try to change the roads so people will survive the crash, you change the roads to prevent the crash!

Quote:

yes I do beleive that the fines are revenue raising, but if you get off your high horse and thing about where that money does actually go in some ways it is actually good for the country.

Yeah, it goes to some scum somewhere in the politician chain, where they earn huge amount of amount and gets transported in helicopters.

2003 Statistics, 368,000 infringements for technically speeding over the artifical posted speed limits up to 15km/h, revenue raised $48 million, and this in only fines for 15km/h under, which didn't include your 18km/h over the limit... Wink
That's a lot of extra tax to collect of the taxpayers of NSW!

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Drivers-speed- up-to-go-with-the-flow/2005/02/16/1108500158431.ht ml

Quote:

SMH: Only 54 per cent of men supported increased fines to reduce speeding, compared with 71 per cent of women

Emotions affects women more than men...

Quote:

Hell to too long ago I got a rather nasty fine which i would not of got if the clock in my car was at the right time and not 5 minutes fast. 58 in a 40 zone 9:28 am. Road is normally a 60 zone outside school hours and I had 2 mins and I would of been doing under the speed limit. but hey almost $400 and 3 point later. but hell.. in the end it was my fault.

Point is if you don't want to pay the fine then don't do the crime.


wonder how much out of pocket would you be if you were fined for every 5km/h that you accidently went over the limit, laws in a democracy world are designed to be fair, if tomorrow you wake up, and found all the main roads have turned into 20km zones and maximum speed limit is 30km/h even on every major highway, you will think that it is ok? Will the road toll become 0? How many more people will be fined? 368,000 infringements issued for up to 15km/h over in 1 year, isn't there something wrong? Did we have 368,000 crazy speed demons in NSW in 1 year?

This is like luring everyone in Australia to drive, and although research (the real research, not those dodgy ones that says every 5km/h over doubles your risk of having a serious crash) have shown that speed doesn't directly kills, but they decided to enforce speeding over the artifical limit, just because there's so much money to be made, and everyone in the city have depended so much upon driving their cars, and the public transport is nothing more than crap, they can't go to the places they need to go without driving, now they've got no choice but to drive on, although u know the road is dangerous, and highway robbery is unavoidable, is this your ideal world?

anyway, all these information can only be absorbed if you've got an open mind, u have to understand accident and death is not as simple as the magic speed limit, it'll never will be, one static speed limit will never be the right speed limit for all conditions (weather, amount of traffic, flow of traffic all matters)

(speed limit x risk ratio based on driving conditions x drivers skills x time spent on the trip x performance of vehicle = accident rate) death rate is a very complicated number derived mostly from luck, and the construction of the vehicle, I'm sure you've seen race car driver crashing at 200km/h and come out walking... so the conclusion, accident rate can only be 0 @ 0km/h

accident rate can only be 0% @ 0km/h, don't let the media fool you, but the lowest accident/death rate comes from places where speed limits aren't strictly enforced, but driving skills/standards are strict..

EDIT: sorry forgot to include a very important variable in the above formula, and that is "1 / amount of attention being allocated to the roads ahead" which includes if the driver is attentive, whether he's watching the road or the speedo, whether he's falling asleep behind the wheel due to boredom, fatigue, alcohol or drugs etc.etc.. and I'm sure there's many more variables

[Updated on: Thu, 16 June 2005 06:18]

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Big Rob
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Re: Need Legal Advice Thu, 16 June 2005 07:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think people need to start actually realizing that every moment of your life you are facing some sort of risk. Every time you are walking across a street, theres be a RISK you may get hit. Whenever you go out to eat in a restaurant, there is a RISK you may get food poisoning etc. Every time you step into your car and drive there is a RISK that you may be killed. And thats just accossiated with the task at hand, and frankly life.
People need to start accepting these risks, and that people may, can, and probably will die by associating themselves with driving.
I am sick to death(pardon the pun Razz) of hearing what the latest road tolls are. OH no 3 people died over the Christmas holidays etc. GET OVER IT!!!!! Accept that this is going to happen and enjoy life rather than constantly focusing on negatives. And by stating that, I would like to say i do not condone doing 160km in an 80km zone, he just increased the risk of his activity. And if someone was to get hit, eg a pedestrian. It would be unfortunate but they were taking a risk in crossing a street etc.

Sincerely,
Biggest Rob

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illuminatus
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Re: Need Legal Advice Fri, 17 June 2005 02:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Speedy, NICE WORK MAN. next time put the foot down and u will prob loose the coppers. think of whats at stakes. lol Wink Evil or Very Mad

good luck in court, dont let it get you down.

speed all you want. they governement has given u the right to drive. so they belive u are capable of making a decision of wether to speed or not speed(they hope u make the right decision, but u dont have to) Evil or Very Mad

just stay away from drugs, cos thats what will make u crash and kill youself and others. even if u think they have worn off or its a few days after, ur resposes wont b the same.
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Rainey
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Re: Need Legal Advice Fri, 17 June 2005 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hrm, I think this is where the offender's nickname kinda says it all.

I'm not gonna enter into the shitfight but I do feel that if the government keeps reducing the speed limits people will begin to get frustrated with living in a padded box and bend the rules a bit more.
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olihaub
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Re: Need Legal Advice Fri, 17 June 2005 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i got done for the same thing (but in a 110 zone at 162)
i think ur looking at 1515 bucks of fine plus 60bucks for court fees and a 6 month suspention if u have an ok record
that is unless u have a REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY good excuse like i did and then they will knock a few hundred bucks of the fine
but yeah ur fucked
and then u will also get another 3 months if u dont have more than 6 points on ur licence cos u will run out of points
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olihaub
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Re: Need Legal Advice Fri, 17 June 2005 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oh and tell ur parents that u are going to take wrap for it and dont expect any help (money wise) from them

[Updated on: Fri, 17 June 2005 12:38]

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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Sat, 18 June 2005 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Big Rob wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 17:06

I think people need to start actually realizing that every moment of your life you are facing some sort of risk. Every time you are walking across a street, theres be a RISK you may get hit. Whenever you go out to eat in a restaurant, there is a RISK you may get food poisoning etc. Every time you step into your car and drive there is a RISK that you may be killed. And thats just accossiated with the task at hand, and frankly life.
People need to start accepting these risks, and that people may, can, and probably will die by associating themselves with driving.
I am sick to death(pardon the pun Razz) of hearing what the latest road tolls are. OH no 3 people died over the Christmas holidays etc. GET OVER IT!!!!! Accept that this is going to happen and enjoy life rather than constantly focusing on negatives. And by stating that, I would like to say i do not condone doing 160km in an 80km zone, he just increased the risk of his activity. And if someone was to get hit, eg a pedestrian. It would be unfortunate but they were taking a risk in crossing a street etc.

Sincerely,
Biggest Rob




but strangely, there's so many things a pedestrian can do to reduce risk of having an accidents with other vehicles... If there's really a problem of vehicle and pedestrian collisions, the government should do something more constructive to stop it, but instead, we're fed with speed kills, instead of reducing the risk of collision, we are asked to survive the collisions and soften the hit? That clearly means we have no vehicle/pedestrian problem.

but again, 160 in a 80km/h zone is stupid (forth time I've said it)

Quote:

but I do feel that if the government keeps reducing the speed limits people will begin to get frustrated with living in a padded box and bend the rules a bit more


Isn't this already happening? 368,000 NSW infringements in one year exceeding the limit by less than 15km/h???
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20VBTSECA
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Re: Need Legal Advice Sun, 19 June 2005 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
plea that you are insane Laughing

or say my accelerator was stuck lol
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illuminatus
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Re: Need Legal Advice Tue, 21 June 2005 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
so what happen man, ur parents castrate u?
keep us posted
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86tt
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Re: Need Legal Advice Mon, 27 June 2005 21:10 Go to previous message
thetoyman75 wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 01:27

86tt,

We all start young and stupid, just some of us more stupid than others !

I won't say I have never been caught speeding. My driving record is 2 A4 pages long and my first offence landed me 3 months suspension an Ass reaming fine and 3 years on reduced points but I'm sure as fuck not proud of it.

Your anti-revenue raising veiw point is probably shared by most of us but you miss one vital point, Speeding DOES kill/injure, it also damages other peoples property. There really is no excuse for travelling at twice the speed limit, hell any 80zone is most likely suburban so it was hardly the place for it by anyones standards. Track days at Wakefield park and eastern Creek are frequent and affordable, its only the small dicked wanna be's who have to try and prove themselves on the steet.

You can say how no one was hurt all you like but tell me how you would feel if they were... And it was your mum/brother/child or even just your pride and joy ?

Take a good long look at your thought process and consier the wider picture. Then dig out your dads pink floyd albums and spend the rest of the day agreeing with them !



but these small dicked wanna be's isn't going to be stopped by any "15km/h or 30km/h or even 45km/h over speed limits" enforcements is it? These SDW will always be there and always doing the wrong thing, but why is it getting so much focus and making the whole world of good drivers pay? I think you need to consider ur own thought process, you said you had a pageful of offenses, so that means you were one of those SMALL DICKED WANNA-BES, so why didn't those traffic fines stop you speeding?



just found some old articles talking about the comparisions of deaths in Australia, and it mentioned something about AusStats, maybe that's worth looking at (the AusStats, not my link)
http://www.speedingisbullshit.com/article.php?id=8 5


EDIT: oops... sorry... I was going thru the forum and somehow I've got to the first page and thought that it was a new post... Razz treat my msg as a new post anyway, or just ignore it... Laughing

[Updated on: Mon, 27 June 2005 21:16]

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