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Location:
Hobart, Tasmania
Registered:
January 2005
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Carbon clean???
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Fri, 17 June 2005 04:06
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What exactly is involved with a carbon clean as such? My mechanic has recommended it for next service.
Sorry I probably get the prize for the most n00b question in here, but at least I used the right section! 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 17 June 2005 05:06
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spary WD40/RP7 liberally thru spark plug holes. leave overnight or more. start engine, check for carbon on pistons.. repeat 
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Location:
Hobart, Tasmania
Registered:
January 2005
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 Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 17 June 2005 05:36
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Ahhh! That makes it clearer for me! Thanks mate.
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 17 June 2005 05:55
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| oldcorollas wrote on Fri, 17 June 2005 15:06 |
spary WD40/RP7 liberally thru spark plug holes. leave overnight or more. start engine, check for carbon on pistons.. repeat
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That's literally all you have to do?
I'm assuming you do this to a cold engine?
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 17 June 2005 06:01
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nah works much better on a hot running engine you should try it one day.
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 17 June 2005 06:06
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| Corona RT142 wrote on Fri, 17 June 2005 16:01 |
nah works much better on a hot running engine you should try it one day.
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oh damn mango you're so funny  
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 17 June 2005 07:10
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well, whenever i pull a motor down, WD40 or similar is applied to carbon coated pistons.. after a day or so, the carbon basically just falls off, whereas previously it is rock hard..
hopefully he is also talking about cleaning valves and manifolds etc...
maybe just ask the mechanic exactly what is involved in the process.. if he's not happy to tell you, tell him you are not happy to pay for the work if he doesn't know what is involved
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 17 June 2005 13:12
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it's BS!
find someone else.
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Sat, 18 June 2005 05:00
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| allencr wrote on Fri, 17 June 2005 23:12 |
it's BS!
find someone else.
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Rubbish allencr.
A close friend of mine owned a corolla gti had 140,xxxkms on it, run fine, always properly serviced, good enough to eat camry's anyway.
Had a carbon clean done at one of his service intervals($160), and holy shit what a difference, better fuel economy, better low torque, better overall, so i say do it if its been recomended do it.
As far as i know they disconnect your fuel line, plumb in a machine and let the motor idle for a peroid of time, 30mins for my friends corolla.
The motor farts of pops all over the place blowing whitish smoke. Then plumb it back together again, fresh oil and spark plugs and away you go.
Simple as that really, from what i could tell at least.
I guess the only downside to a carbon clean is that if any carbon was filling on holes/gaps anywhere it wouldnt be good afterwards.
Cheers
Steve
[Updated on: Sat, 18 June 2005 05:06]
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Sat, 18 June 2005 05:18
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sounds very similar to using throttle body cleaner while the engine is running
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Sat, 18 June 2005 05:46
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Ive heard rotary guys pour Redline injector cleaner (or similar) into the spark plug holes, turn it over a few times (no ign, to spread the stuff around) and leave it for a few days before starting up.
Cleans off the carbon from thr rotor seals, etc.
Should also work well on a piston engine.
Just make sure you start it back up at night.... it creates a HUGE amount of smoke.
People will think there is a forrest fire in yoiur backyard if you do it during the day.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Sat, 18 June 2005 08:00
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On engines I don't really care about too much (e.g. my old 2T) I've done it by feeding water down the air intake while I'm doing some Greek Rev Tuning in the driveway. Seems to stem the run on etc. for a week or two.
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Sat, 18 June 2005 08:48
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| mrshin wrote on Sat, 18 June 2005 18:00 |
On engines I don't really care about too much (e.g. my old 2T) I've done it by feeding water down the air intake while I'm doing some Greek Rev Tuning in the driveway. Seems to stem the run on etc. for a week or two.
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We did a similar thing to my old XF Falcon. It was pinging heaps. Checked timing, etc, all ok. So we started it up, pulled one of the BIG vacuum lines from the manifold off and put it into a bucket of water while reving the engine. Blew a shitload of smoke while we did it, but ran better after and didn't ping as much.
I wouldn't recommend this though if you like your engine as it can cause a bit of damage.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Sun, 19 June 2005 12:34
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so i just spray shitloads of carbie cleaner/wd40 into spark plug hole and start engine the next day??
do i have the spark plugs back on after spraying??
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 01:31
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Subaru sell cans spray cans of decarbonizer. They run it through the cars every second service ( because they carbon up so bad ) works great. You spray a bit in while it is running then leave it and it blows lots of smoke and cleans the engine out.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 01:57
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Would any RP7/WD40 seep past the rings and get into the oil? That might be a concern... 
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Location:
Hobart, Tasmania
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 03:00
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Well my mechanic is a friend as well as an owner of a workshop. He treats my car with a lot of respect and he said it would probably need a good carbon clean for the km's it's done. He said we can assess it when I bring it in on Wednesday and I trust his word I just didn't know what it involved. When I go in I'll see if I can find out what the process is.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 03:29
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| HyDrA wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 11:57 |
Would any RP7/WD40 seep past the rings and get into the oil? That might be a concern...
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compared to how much fuel already gets into the oil? probably not a problem, and would largely evaporate when the motor warms up...
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 03:41
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God knows if my car's ever been carbon cleaned.... considering the state of the old spark plugs, i'd say not
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 04:39
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| HyDrA wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 11:57 |
Would any RP7/WD40 seep past the rings and get into the oil? That might be a concern...
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As a Subie owner, i can say that subie workshops do this all the time, (with an actual decoking/decarboning stuff) and it is always reccomended to do this just before you do an oil change.
Just think of where all that nice abrasive carbon muck goes if it isnt blown out the exhaust??
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 05:50
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| cannonball wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 14:09 |
As a Subie owner, i can say that subie workshops do this all the time, (with an actual decoking/decarboning stuff) and it is always reccomended to do this just before you do an oil change.
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So there is a product made to do this job?
Any idea what it is?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 05:58
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Subaru Cylinder head cleaner? I think that's what its called. My mate used to be a mechanic at Subaru and he 'borrowed' a few cans.. used it on my car when we did the conversion. Good shit.
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Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 08:27
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Is this "subaru cyl head cleaner" safe to spray into a flapper type afm?can it foul-up the sensor at all or do damage to a turbo itself?
Noob question:I assume you take off your air filter and just spray it in
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 09:10
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| Aust162 wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 17:57 |
Is this "subaru cyl head cleaner" safe to spray into a flapper type afm?can it foul-up the sensor at all or do damage to a turbo itself?
Noob question:I assume you take off your air filter and just spray it in
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Very much a noob question.
Did you read any of the above?
To remove any kind of hard carbon, it must be soaked/softened first.
This cant be done by sprying somthing into the engine while its running... itll just get burnt.
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Location:
Gympie
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 13:03
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| M.W.P. wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 19:10 |
Very much a noob question.
Did you read any of the above?
To remove any kind of hard carbon, it must be soaked/softened first.
This cant be done by sprying somthing into the engine while its running... itll just get burnt.
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Actually, if you've ever taken off a cylinder head which has had water leaking into the combustion chamber, you'd probably realise that engine coolant can make a pretty good job of de-carbonising. The cylinder in question is generally as clean as a whistle, while the others are still as grotty as you'd expect. Don't know how long the water needs to be going into the motor though. Also care needs to be exercised that you don't get too much in there at once and 'hydraulic' the motor. ie try to force water to compress and end up bending a rod or sundry other possible nasty outcomes. I have limited myself to a spray bottle and misting the water into the carby for about a quarter of an hour, lots of billowing smoke/steam and (probably) much cleaner inside afterward. We have also put second hand motors into junker Falcons and freed up the rings by dropping oil or Moreys down the carby. Smokes like a bogan for quite a while, but does seem to bring the compression up. I wouldn't recommend oil to reduce carbon though, I'd reckon if anything it may increase the carbon. My mate who is a retired diesel fitter reckons they used to put a cleaner called Bon Ami down the carby, not sure if that was for carbon or glazed bores or both. I think it was something similar to Jif or possibly Ammonia. Anyway, carby cleaner is probably a pretty good bet, although I still reckon the water would work, after all, one of the effects of water injection is to keep the carbon off the combustion chamber surfaces, hence reducing pre ignition. The other effect being that the water vaporising absorbs some of the heat in the intake charge thus cooling it and giving a small intercooling effect. Which also helps prevent pre ignition.
Cheers
Richard
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 13:29
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i know people that say alltho they wouldnt do it to thier engine they have seen people do it to paddock bashers they didnt care about and as much as he didnt want to believe it worked he said the car ran a whole lot better after it.
The guy whos car it was took the filter off the carby and poured washing powder down it while running.
Aparantly made huge amounts of smoke and the smell was unbearable but once it cleared the car ran alot better go figure huh..
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 14:55
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| jzx83 wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 22:33 |
Actually, if you've ever taken off a cylinder head which has had water leaking into the combustion chamber, you'd probably realise that engine coolant can make a pretty good job of de-carbonising. The cylinder in question is generally as clean as a whistle, while the others are still as grotty as you'd expect. Don't know how long the water needs to be going into the motor though.
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A long time i think.
Guys running water injection end up with almost zero carbon build up.
Ive done the water into the carb trick a few times before.
After pulling the head off my engine last week, it looks like it has almost no effect.
The piston domes had a thick very hard carbon layer on them... i had to remove it with a blade, soaking it with WD40 did squat to help remove it 
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 14:57
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have you tried throttle body cleaner???
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 15:14
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| 4agte wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 22:57 |
have you tried throttle body cleaner???
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throttle body cleaner, and carby cleaner, are pretty much one in the same, meaning, they do the same shit.
Eldar.O.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 22:37
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| b1gb3n wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 22:34 |
so i just spray shitloads of carbie cleaner/wd40 into spark plug hole and start engine the next day??
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 20 June 2005 23:31
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| TA-022 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 08:37 |
| b1gb3n wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 22:34 |
so i just spray shitloads of carbie cleaner/wd40 into spark plug hole and start engine the next day??
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are u re-asking the question or answering it with ur signature??
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Tue, 21 June 2005 04:13
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| b1gb3n wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 09:31 |
| TA-022 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 08:37 |
| b1gb3n wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 22:34 |
so i just spray shitloads of carbie cleaner/wd40 into spark plug hole and start engine the next day??
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are u re-asking the question or answering it with ur signature??
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he is pointing out where carby cleaner is mentioned but i wasnt referring to that person
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Tue, 21 June 2005 11:20
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^^^
what he said.
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Location:
Dandenong Ranges, VIC
Registered:
July 2004
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Wed, 22 June 2005 06:19
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Doesnt any premium unleaded or better petrol have cleaning agents in them to clean carbon buildup? Cos i have been puttin this stuff in my car for the past 5000 kms
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Location:
Newcastle, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Wed, 22 June 2005 06:23
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| urban_myth wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 16:19 |
Doesnt any premium unleaded or better petrol have cleaning agents in them to clean carbon buildup? Cos i have been puttin this stuff in my car for the past 5000 kms
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yeah but carbon buildup from 20,000km ago probably isnt going to come off with just using premium.
perhaps the carby cleaner into the cylinder and leaving it overnight is the better idea.
I might try this tomorrow night!
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Wed, 22 June 2005 08:01
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For me Brake Cleaner works great. I clean heads with this everyday. Just spray it on and add a bit of compressed air and its gone.
Mind you they are race engines that have been running 15.1 comp and alcy, so being run on alcy there isnt much carbon, but wats there is gone after some brake cleaner.
I have also used it on my 18r, worked ok i guess but some scrubbing was needed.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Wed, 22 June 2005 09:36
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| Aust162 wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 18:27 |
Is this "subaru cyl head cleaner" safe to spray into a flapper type afm?can it foul-up the sensor at all or do damage to a turbo itself?
Noob question:I assume you take off your air filter and just spray it in
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It's called "Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner". My cousin's a subie mechanic and he "lent" me a couple cans to use. It's specifically made for removing carbon deposits and stuff.
Eddie.
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Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Wed, 22 June 2005 11:02
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| Big T wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 19:36 |
| Aust162 wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 18:27 |
Is this "subaru cyl head cleaner" safe to spray into a flapper type afm?can it foul-up the sensor at all or do damage to a turbo itself?
Noob question:I assume you take off your air filter and just spray it in
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It's called "Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner". My cousin's a subie mechanic and he "lent" me a couple cans to use. It's specifically made for removing carbon deposits and stuff.
Eddie.
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Fair enough. i was just repeating was someone else wrote. 
i've never heard of the stuff until this week.
do you know if the product is for sale "direct to the public," say from subaru spare parts dealership?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Wed, 22 June 2005 11:08
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Not sure if it's available to the public but i see no reason it wouldn't be. Just try calling up and asking for it at the parts department. The worst they can do is simply say no.
Eddie.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Wed, 22 June 2005 14:34
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probably uber costly if its anything like buying things from toyota
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Wed, 22 June 2005 23:22
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some people with rotaries also use ATF (automatic transmission fluid) or brake fluid to clean carbon from their engines.
they squirt some in the spark plug holes, turn it over (not starting it) and sit for an hr or so, then repeat, until u r happy, and then start it up. lots of billowing white smoke for a while, and then supposedly the carbon is gone. havent tried it myself though, might give it a go on the celica
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Location:
Gympie
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Thu, 23 June 2005 04:48
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Regarding Brake cleaner.
Be very very careful not to inhale this stuff as I have been told of an experienced mechanic who combined his work on a car's braking system with his love of a cigarette, with fatal results.
If you think about the difficulty of removing the type of stuff that brake cleaner products are used on, it seems likely that there may be some heavy duty nasties involved. Having said that, my mate said that he thinks they may have changed the formulation to prevent this happening. My tendency with anything that I don't know the ingredients of is to assume the worst... and then be half arsed about reducing the danger. I would also love to know what is in the soobie head cleaner product too. Am seeing little bro tonight so I'll ask him. He is a gun Subaru mechanic.
In my previous post I mentioned my mate telling me about Bon Ami. I spoke to him again and it is basically a powder version of Jif, and the people using it were mechanics on the Bathurst racers. The purpose of putting it down the carbys was to free up freshly built engines, and bed them in. Since bedding in involves a certain amount of wear, I think it is probably NOT what you would want to do to an old(er) engine.
When I mentioned the other possible methods to my mate, he was:
a/ Horrified by the vacuum pipe into the bucket of water.
b/ Agreeable to the idea of misting water into intake (He was the one who showed me how to do it after all)
c/ Agreeable that brake clean, brake fluid, auto fluid and naturally the soobie product should all work.
If you were doing plugs out, put agent down the cylinders and leave in for a time. the thing to be careful of might be to make sure that none of the metal objects that it comes in contact with are going to be munched by the agent. It is probably for this reason that this job is usually done with motor running as the stuff is only in there until it gets burned/belched out.
Cheers Richard
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Location:
Gympie
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Thu, 23 June 2005 04:59
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Hey I forgot to mention.
d/ Possum piss (RP7, WD40 etc etc) Yeah Maybe. Not sure if they are aggressive enough to do very much with carbon.
Also, on the subject of water/steam. In the '60s my mate had made up a steam injectio system on his workshop runabout Holden. It consisted of fine copper pipe wrapped around the exhaust manifold to heat up the water. Then the steam was directed into the intake somewhere. The result was that the vehicle ran better all the time, and when the head was removed years later it was 'as clean as a whistle'. Which probably proves the case for water injection ie continuous or at least regular doses of h2o. It may be more tenuous for spending 15 to 30 minutes misting water into the intake of a running motor. The process is unlikely to do any harm but its also possible that it won't do the full job either. Only way to know is to speak to someone with lots of experience in doing it.
Confused Yet?
Cheers Richard
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Thu, 23 June 2005 10:28
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| jzx83 wrote on Thu, 23 June 2005 14:48 |
Regarding Brake cleaner.
Be very very careful not to inhale this stuff as I have been told of an experienced mechanic who combined his work on a car's braking system with his love of a cigarette, with fatal results.
If you think about the difficulty of removing the type of stuff that brake cleaner products are used on, it seems likely that there may be some heavy duty nasties involved. Having said that, my mate said that he thinks they may have changed the formulation to prevent this happening. My tendency with anything that I don't know the ingredients of is to assume the worst... and then be half arsed about reducing the danger.
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Whoops, i have been using this to clean my hands.
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Location:
Hobart, Tasmania
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 24 June 2005 01:02
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Okay guys I was actually able to observe the carbon cleaning machine at my workshop on Wednesday. Basically they connect a trolley machine to your fuel line and run the car on an alternate fluid rather than it's independent tank. They take the car through some variable rpm and the machine monitors the fluid level so that they know when to stop it.
I'll let you know if I notice an increase in performance or a smoother sounding engine when I get my baby back on Monday or Tuesday.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 24 June 2005 07:47
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I remember seeing some stuff in repco. Cant remember the name but i think it was a NULON product. Suppost to clean out your combustion chambers
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Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Fri, 24 June 2005 08:28
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Repco have a product called "rocket boost" i think, dont quote me. might be the nulon product your thinking of. its in a tall, skinny aerosol can.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Sun, 24 July 2005 05:26
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very interesting tread
my car has been pinging sometimes also and not smoooth at times
and now i think after reading this
mayb i got alot of carbon built up in my engine coz mt afm was screwed 4 awhile and i was driving 4 a while with it coz my car was always running very rich and use 2 change the spark plugs and boy did it have heaps of carbon builtup on it HEAPS
gotta try this next weekend
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Location:
Hobart, Tasmania
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Sun, 24 July 2005 06:08
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I have been using cabon cleaning for years as a mechanic and the way it operates is it uses a seperate fuel pump in the carbon clean machine which uses a detergent mixed with fuel to clean fuel rails,injectors,valves,pressure regulators,combustion chambers etc. This detergent removes gums and varnishes in injectors, softens carbon within the combustion chambers and when on the machine the operator gives the engine a few revs to blow out the carbon.
Yes it does improve fuel consumption, engine power and overfall driveability but only on a engine with excessive cabon build up.
New engines with low km's will not benefit from the clean due to being internally clean.
The detergent which is mixed with the fuel is fairly expensive $300-350 for 5 litres, the machine is hooked up to the supply line and return line on the fuel rail and the lines which are left hanging are simply plumbed into each other while the clean is being carried out, best to perform with engine at operating temp.
I have personally witnessed a engine which was missing severly and when driven felt like the engine was down on a couple of cylinders, ignition system tested fine and when the clean was carried out the vehicle performed excellent.
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Location:
Bunbury
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Carbon clean???
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Mon, 25 July 2005 13:16
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awesome I will be having a fuel system clean done to my 1988 camry ultima with the 3S-FE engine currently getting 330km to a tank of standard unleaded!, at the moment I have just fitted a new cat back system, it is a standard replacement system and already it is all carbed up at the tail pipe! I did a diagnostic check and it tells me it is a code 51 fault which is a problem in the throttle position sensor circuit, but should I try the water mist in the intake of a running engine or throttle body cleaner in the spark plug holes over night before I have the fuel system cleaned?
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