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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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diameter of audio cables
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Mon, 20 June 2005 23:35
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For all the audio nuts out there...
I'm wondering what diameter I should be running to my various speaker. Josh reckons skinny to the sub (maintain strength, lose quality) and thick wires to the fronts (lose strength, maintain quality). The guy who I stole all my wires off obviously did it the other way around.
Does anyone know the answer?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Mon, 20 June 2005 23:58
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I don't think it matters between strength and quality, mainly the current that is being sent along the wire. That is why people usually use larger wires for a sub because they usually receive more power.
In actual fact, unless you are some sort of audiophile, I don't think you could tell the difference. Just make sure they are big enough so that they don't melt!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 00:02
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I am a bit of an audiophile 
You're probably right tho, I won't be able to tell the difference with my exhaust and fuel pump to add to the noise.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 00:34
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12 guage from the amp to the sub.
16 guage from the amp to the front crossovers.
<16 guage from the deck to the rear speakers.
Get a decent pair of RCA's and use a separate trigger wire down the opposite side to the RCA's.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:06
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If you're really concerned about quality, focus on the really important stuff. That said, I'd probably follow Peewees rough size recommendations.
Don't by shit speaker cabling to begin with  Make sure your RCA's are good quality and separated from power sources and things which could cause interferece. Ultimately, it will come out very good by proper application of the simple things, but leave the audiophile stuff for home, the environment of a car is about the worst place for music 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:08
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yeah, I've already got good quality cabling. the RCAs that came with the cable look very cheap unfortunately, so will have a hunt for some decent ones.
and yeah, ultimately a car's sound system is not going to be ideal, but I still want to do it right, get what I can out of the setup
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:08
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My advice is, makes sure you have no bad earths!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:09
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| Cool1 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 09:08 |
My advice is, makes sure you have no bad earths!
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Haha, that too 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:10
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| draven wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 09:08 |
yeah, I've already got good quality cabling. the RCAs that came with the cable look very cheap unfortunately, so will have a hunt for some decent ones.
and yeah, ultimately a car's sound system is not going to be ideal, but I still want to do it right, get what I can out of the setup
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That's the important bit. Make sure they're up to scratch, and with some thoughtful planning, all should be well. Where are you mounting your amp?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:15
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amp is undecided at the moment. either under my seat, or in the boot near the sub. one of my rear speaker wires is going to have to run next to my battery cable unfortunately, so I'm expecting a bit of degredation back there.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:17
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The Witzl's tips for car audio installations (amplifiers)
- ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS put a fuse no more than 30cm from the battery on your power cable(s). These fuses are a FIRE protection.
- use 8 guage power cable for up to 600W, 4 guage for up to 1500W, and 2guage for stupidity, and 1/0 guage for insanity
- Subs should have SHORT speaker cable runs, with minimum 12guage cable
- Amplified full range speakers should be wired with 16 guage cable at minimum.
- RCA cables should be run AS FAR away as possible from any major current carrying cable (ie amp power cable), and high frequency signal carrying wires (ecu). That means RCA cable down one side, and power cable down the other. If the RCA cables HAVE to go near the ECU, wrap that section in alfoil........ doing all this avoids engine noise.
- amplifier earths have to be the same size as the power cable!!
- Cable ties and electrical tape are your friends. Learn to use them wisely.
Stay tuned for more imparting of the Witzl's bountiful knowledge and advice. WST's may be involved.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:17
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Ultimately you're not going to notice dude, the rears are...in the rear
I've only got rear fill coming from my subwoofer atm, and people always bag it until they get in it
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:35
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I listened to just a sub with some fronts. the difference the rear speakers make was HUGE.
Karl - many thanks for that, exactly the sort of info I was after. The amp will have it's own fuse. unfortunately my battery cable from boot to engine bay runs down one side of my car, so 1 speaker cable is going to have to go fairly close to it (5cm away), no way to avoid it.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:37
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| draven wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 09:35 |
I listened to just a sub with some fronts. the difference the rear speakers make was HUGE.
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In what car, and how was the sub positioned?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:38
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in a shop, not a car. but the mids bought out parts of the sound taht were totally missed with just front splits and a sub
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:40
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| draven wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 09:35 |
unfortunately my battery cable from boot to engine bay runs down one side of my car, so 1 speaker cable is going to have to go fairly close to it (5cm away), no way to avoid it.
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I've found that speaker cable can run next to power cable no worries.
RCA cable however needs a good distance.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:43
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cool RCA will not be going near any other cables, except for switches on the centre console.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:50
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jaycar is the place to shop for all the speaker cable, RCA cable and fuses and shit. get some good RCAs.....
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 01:52
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not biased or anything there?
when are you next working? I might try and pop by (do you still work there?)
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 02:18
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i work in head office. I buy the stuff that we sell and you buy.
im not biased, i just dont think you should pay twice the price for 20% more product..... sure Jaycar stuff aint the best, but its a damn sight cheaper than the alternatives - so value for money is uber high.
P.S. i have that new Re'Sponse Precision Class D sub amp.... damn good piece of equipment!! The whole new range of audio gear is actually pretty top shelf in my opinion!
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 02:43
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Also if you are technically insane by The Witzl's standards you can use welding cable from BOC for amp power and ground. It is a shitload cheaper than stereo places.
Also on that topic, this guy who was putting my windscreen in reckons there is no point having power wire that is thick because the alternator is only about 45amps anyway. What are your thoughts? I was only using 8 guage on the rolla whereas I had welding cable in my Soarer. Personally, I would rather be safe than sorry and end up with melted wire everywhere.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Tue, 21 June 2005 03:00
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Most alternators these days are 70A+
And regardless of that, 8guage can handle about 60A constant.
4guage can handle about 110A constant.
If the fuses on your amp are > 50A you SHOULD be running 4guage.
If its only 30A or 40A 8guage is enough.
Also, check the specs on welding wire. I doubt its of the quality of OFC power wire.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Wed, 22 June 2005 00:07
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Jaycar sell some decent RCA's that actually have a remote wire built in. I found this very convenient
Sadly midway through my wiring i decided to put the amp on a different side of the car from what i originally budgeted cable for, so i had to run my power cabling across the floor to keep it from my RCA's. Its now all complete and done, and no engine hiss, so i'm happy
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Wed, 22 June 2005 01:08
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| Bananaman wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 08:07 |
Jaycar sell some decent RCA's that actually have a remote wire built in. I found this very convenient
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Umm, thats actually a grounding wire, not a trigger wire.
While using this for trigger you *can* introduce a *popping* sound upon startup and turnoff.
I've done it on mine, and have no pop, but I've heard it on others, and moving the trigger wire has solved it.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Wed, 22 June 2005 01:53
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I realised my RCA's had this extra wire after I had already ran a regular signal wire anyway
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Wed, 22 June 2005 11:10
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i have a pair of 6" 2-ways in the corona 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Wed, 22 June 2005 15:10
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next question: does anyone have a wiring list for the shitpile of wires that come out for the head unit on an ma61?
I guess the only 2 I actually need to know are constant and acc power, and a continuity tester will list those
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Wed, 22 June 2005 23:03
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the size of wires, ie thickness relates to how many amps they will carry, amplifiers draw low volts and a lot of amps, speakers draw high volts and low amps. speaker wire doesnt need to be super thick but amplifier wire usually does.
8 gauge = about 60a
4 gauge = about 120a
i have a built 2 jaycar setups, all matched components and wires and they went hard. jaycar stuff is so much better than the bling bling crap they sell everywhere else, and cheaper too.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Wed, 22 June 2005 23:12
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 11:08 |
| Bananaman wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 08:07 |
Jaycar sell some decent RCA's that actually have a remote wire built in. I found this very convenient
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Umm, thats actually a grounding wire, not a trigger wire.
While using this for trigger you *can* introduce a *popping* sound upon startup and turnoff.
I've done it on mine, and have no pop, but I've heard it on others, and moving the trigger wire has solved it.
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Seem to recall it bing marked as remote wire on the box, not sure. In any case, its working brilliantly for me as a remote wire  Haven't heard this popping sound you speak of.
Speaking of jaycar gear, i'm using one of the new range of the 4x50wrms amps. Quite happy with it, it is quite good build quality, no complaints about how it sounds, plenty of customisation available, etc. My only comment is that the manual for it had pretty dodgy english. I'm also using the old range of 6x9s, with the adjustable tweeters. I used them before and was very happy, so i went and bought the display ones from my local shop
Having said that, i got the amp wholesale via electus (jaycar's wholesale arm) - the retail side may supply a different manual, although i doubt it.
Back to the topic at hand ( ) If you're using an amp, just grab your multimeter - its quite easy to work out which are your voltages and earth (if you use it and don't make your own). Even if you're not using an amp, its probably wise to run fresh speaker cabling anyway.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Thu, 23 June 2005 00:45
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| draven wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 23:10 |
next question: does anyone have a wiring list for the shitpile of wires that come out for the head unit on an ma61?
I guess the only 2 I actually need to know are constant and acc power, and a continuity tester will list those
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Yeah, thats it.
Accessories power, and maybe lights input is all you'll really need.
Electric aerial output if you still have one.
For new deck I'd be running another constant power wire and earth, as the current stuff was built to handle about 40watts, where as you will be using over 100.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Fri, 24 June 2005 03:27
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josh you ugly homo (or anyone else with a good memory) - what is the colour code of the ACC power for the stereo? I have 2 constant power wires (same colour) but no ACC power as far as I can tell. also anyone know what the "lights" one is? (or do I have to run it myself?)
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Fri, 24 June 2005 04:35
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# ACC is usually L-R (blue-red)
# ILL is usually G-R or green of some variety
# to the donghead "windscreen installer" who said "big cables are stupid".... why do cars have batteries? When your amp gets a large bass kick or similar, it does not draw power from the alternator.... it draws from the BATTERY!!! The alternator simply charges the battery back up in between these very short bursts of current draw. (do not argue with the Witzl on this one - you will lose).
# Welding cable is teh ghey. Yes it's fat, but not a low voltage drop cable like multistrand OFC copper - hence not ideal.
# The engrish instructions in the new amps are thanks to directly importing these amps ourselves. There isnt much realy needed with an amps instructions other than a diagram of what is what, and a table of specifications. Anything else is "padding"
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Fri, 24 June 2005 05:49
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| THE WITZL wrote on Fri, 24 June 2005 14:35 |
# to the donghead "windscreen installer" who said "big cables are stupid".... why do cars have batteries? When your amp gets a large bass kick or similar, it does not draw power from the alternator.... it draws from the BATTERY!!! The alternator simply charges the battery back up in between these very short bursts of current draw. (do not argue with the Witzl on this one - you will lose).
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Figured as much but couldn't remember the details from my old days as an SPL head
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# Welding cable is teh ghey. Yes it's fat, but not a low voltage drop cable like multistrand OFC copper - hence not ideal.
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Yeah I figured it isn't the best but it certainly did the job for me. I was running a 4X150rms amp and a 1200rmsX1 amp @ 1ohm so she pulled a bit of current!
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Fri, 24 June 2005 07:24
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at that current level, welding cable becomes relatively resistive because of its LARGE diam conductors and low strand count..... this means lower voltage at the amplifier, and lower voltage at amplifier = MUCH LOWER POWER!!!!
If you had 2 guage cable, splitting into 4g for each amp ver near by - you would have had a SHITLOAD more power output.....
remember...
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POWER = VOLTS x CURRENT
So when you are drawing 100A thru cable with no votlage drop, you should have 1380watts.... but if you have a small voltage drop (up to 2.0V is not unheard of) - then you have just 1180watts!!!
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Comprehende?
not taking the piss, just trying to impart my bountiful wealth of knowledge again
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Fri, 24 June 2005 07:34
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That's all good mate.
slightly off topic: I am now using this welding cable for my cabling to my battery in the boot. If you had a look at my thread about 1jz with wolf 3d stalling, do you think this could be a factor at all? It was only dropping from 14.6 to 14.2V though.
[/hijack]
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: diameter of audio cables
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Fri, 24 June 2005 09:07
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that's not very much drop - but then again, no NORMAL engine has a massive (50A plus) instantaneous/repeatetive current draw!!
The biggest load a normal engine's electrical system will ever see is the starter motor, at around 200-400A.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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