| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
20v conversion
|
Wed, 29 June 2005 14:59
|
 |
Hey all i ahve a silvertop 20v
i wanna work it to have 200hp+ at the wheels can any 1 give me a few or alot of ideas on how i should go by doing this
i have asked a few ppl and the same answer TURBO yes i no that ehehe but what internals should i get where should i get them and etc
Thanks ppl 
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Wed, 29 June 2005 15:31
|
|
How big is your wallet/bank account?
200hp at the wheels is a fuckload of power for a 1.6L
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Thu, 30 June 2005 01:26
|
|
Yeh but i was talking to some 1 who got 215hp at the wheel fors only 8gz...
im not thining of money yet just want ideas thatnks mate
|
|
|
Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Thu, 30 June 2005 06:11
|
|
|
do a search for turbo and 4agze and there will be the answer
|
|
|
Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Thu, 30 June 2005 06:17
|
|
200+hp at the wheels. What car? fwd or rwd?
fwd will be fairly easy to get, rwd on the other hand...
|
|
|
Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Thu, 30 June 2005 06:27
|
|
|
whats the difference which way the engine faces? seems like a bit of a weird statement to me
|
|
|
Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Thu, 30 June 2005 06:33
|
|
| Sam_Q wrote on Thu, 30 June 2005 16:27 |
whats the difference which way the engine faces? seems like a bit of a weird statement to me
|
drivetrain losses.
He is after 200+hp at the wheels, so in a fwd setup it will be easier to achieve. less engine hp required.
I can remember the "approx" ratios. something like 30% loss on fwd...
|
|
|
Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Thu, 30 June 2005 06:45
|
|
|
while there is some logic there it doesnt hold up when you look at the bigger picture, the losses are there but they become less notable when theres a turbo involved which is what you would need here. With a turbo both engines would be able to go over that power figure and one wont be any harder than the other, they both need the same turbo setup, know what I mean? but yes one will end up with a slighly higher power figure.
|
|
|
Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Thu, 30 June 2005 07:06
|
|
I understand what your saying. i dont know enough specifically about 4age 20v's but for example:
to achieve 200hp in a fwd,you might only need to run say 10psi. and to achieve the same 200hp in a rwd it may require like 18psi. (this is just an example)
So to run that extra boost (in the rwd)you may need an upgraded h/gasket or stronger conrods etc..
Thats how i'm seeing it anyways 
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Fri, 01 July 2005 06:03
|
|
hey all
i wanan put it into an ae92 so its fwd
im thinking just getting stronger pistons and rods, grinding the crank down to stroke it, port head bigger throttle bodys (say off blacktop) and turbo intercooled..
Does this sound reasonable for 200+ hp?
|
|
|
Location:
Barbados
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Fri, 01 July 2005 14:06
|
|
hold on a sec there buddy.....
grinding crank? bigger throttle? port head?
i think you are getting a bit ahead of youself there
step 1: budget....how much can you really afford?
step 2: KEEP IT SIMPLE answer all the questions first..
does it need to be a 20v? does it need to be stoked? do you need bigger throttles? how much can you do youself? how many components do you already have? what do you really need to make 200hp?
step 3: stick to the plan.
follow those steps and u'll be well on your way
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Fri, 01 July 2005 14:25
|
|
hey
1st yes has to be 20v
2nd no real budget take it as it comes
3rd i have haltech and engine and im mechanic with many ppl known who work in performance and machining shops
4th yes it does need to be stroked
5th tell me do ppl who work an engine and keep it simple do they get big power?? go to eastern creek look at the engines and whats in em, are they simple NO but puting out big power
thanks for that tho
but i really jsut want 200+ hp if any 1 can tell me the best way to do it then im open to ideas thanks
|
|
|
Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Fri, 01 July 2005 23:38
|
|
|
what ever you do dont stroke it. Now the question must be asked do you want to turbo it?
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 00:09
|
|
|
I think just rebuild the 20v motor with acl rods nuts and bolts, forge piston with lower compression for more boost, may be thicker headgasket too, SR20/RB25 turbo, FMIC, may be fuel pump/line and injectors, aftermarket ecu and a boost controller can get you there quite easily. but I think even modified 4AGE can only handle 250ps max.
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 01:05
|
|
Why not stroke it????
Stroking Gives you torque and you want that and yesh i gunna turbo it...
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 03:04
|
|
Hi,
Personally I think you're wasting your time stroking it. That money could be better spent else where. Have a look at the 4agze Mr2 that made insane power figures with standard internals.
If you're gonna turbo it, concentrate on making the turbo run as efficiently as possible. The key with small engines that are turbo charged is boost. Think strong internals and drivetrain, and then wind the boost up.
The 20v is probably not the ideal engine to use for turbo setups because they are designed for NA power, so they have high compression, quad throttle bodies, etc...the enemy of turbo setups. They are also a very complicated engine with the VVTi and if you don't know what you're doing, you could end up with a worse than average setup.
If you must use the 20v, then I recommend you just use the 20v head with a gze bottom end.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 July 2005 03:12]
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 05:43
|
|
fare enuff statement speed demon
but if i get a gze im gonna do the same thing stronger rods and pistons...
Ok if its turbos worst enemy whats the best way to get big hp on the 20v?
And can i ask whats every 1 got againts stroking???? stroking gives you tons of torque why would u want that???
|
|
|
Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 06:35
|
|
|
why on earth would you do something like upgrading the internals of a 4agze? 200hp wouldn't even mildly bother it. If I heard right they can take probably almost double that, so it would be kinda dumb to make an upgrade. As for stroking if you must go buy yourself a 7afe and put your head on it. For what you want to do you will get trivial gains with a stack of aftermarket parts. You won't get a huge torque increase, and it won't want to rev anymore like a normal 4ag wants to.
|
|
|
Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 06:41
|
|
here is the simple answer for you:
- sell your 20V with the ecu and wiring loom
- buy a bare 4agze and dont open it up
- fit a t-28 turbo
- run it with an aftermaket ECU
there that's it! simple, cheap, replacable, reliable
it's a proven path, why not use it?
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 13:29
|
|
ok every body knows about gze how good they can be
Why cant i make my 20v be just as good????
Honest i want to keep my 20v....
So ne ideas on how to power that up with out changing this to changing my whole engine..
Thanks for the help ppl you have me thinking now 
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 15:22
|
|
| Gwaijaitat wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 20:11 |
second that, also heard that you can still use the gze ecu up to 7psi, some say 10...
|
ahhh way more than that people are running 15 psi on standard management
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sat, 02 July 2005 15:27
|
|
| Rukas wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 23:29 |
ok every body knows about gze how good they can be
Why cant i make my 20v be just as good????
Honest i want to keep my 20v....
So ne ideas on how to power that up with out changing this to changing my whole engine..
Thanks for the help ppl you have me thinking now
|
there is no reason you cant make your 20v as good as a gze recently when i went to japan the up garage d1 sprinter had a 20v turbo with nos that was making 400hp. the question is why do you want to make things difficult for yourself when a gze will do everything you want on a standard bottom end will set you back like 1500-1800 buks..
its tried and tested with the gze but if you must use the 20v then go ahead we would love to see the result
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sun, 03 July 2005 00:47
|
|
heeh thanks 4agte
But honest i want to be different eheheh
i no the gze are a great engine but i wanna do my 20v
how can i go about doin this???
Also does my 20v head bolt on to the 4agze block?????
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sun, 03 July 2005 01:56
|
|
| Rukas wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 10:47 |
heeh thanks 4agte
But honest i want to be different eheheh
i no the gze are a great engine but i wanna do my 20v
how can i go about doin this???
Also does my 20v head bolt on to the 4agze block?????
|
im not 100% sure as i havent done it before but i believe you need to cut recesses in the piston crowns to clear the valves but like i said im not 100% sure.
i dont think its hugely complicated.
strap a late model s14 or 15 200sx t28 ball bearing turbo to the side, decent i/c and decent flowing exhaust + 440cc injectors + aftermarket ecu and you should have 150kw atw
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney.. North Shore
Registered:
May 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sun, 03 July 2005 07:22
|
|
| Sam_Q wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 16:41 |
here is the simple answer for you:
- sell your 20V with the ecu and wiring loom
- buy a bare 4agze and dont open it up
- fit a t-28 turbo
- run it with an aftermaket ECU
there that's it! simple, cheap, replacable, reliable
it's a proven path, why not use it?
|
while this topic is quite recent i might jump in with a question of my own if no one minds  im thinking of doing a gze transplant into my ae82 and turning it into a 4agte, as you are talking about above... but does anyone know of a ball park price figure for a conversion like this??
cheers
|
|
|
Location:
Barbados
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sun, 03 July 2005 07:53
|
|
ok, here is my suggestion.
oil cooler
upgraded cooling sytem
4custom 8.5:1 20v pistons and rods
t28 turbo
larger injectors
264 exhaust cam
264 intake cam
the rest is up to you
now i know GZE piston would work, its my personal belief that using pistons meant for a four valve head with a coating are not the best option, cutting a valve relif into the coating of a piston cant help ensure longivity. gze pistons are IMHO a cost effective shortcut.
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sun, 03 July 2005 08:08
|
|
hey shomar thanks for that man big help
also how you wrote 264 valves what do these numbers mean?? i never really had to do much with valves and cams.. thanks
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sun, 03 July 2005 09:37
|
|
| 4agerolla wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 17:22 |
| Sam_Q wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 16:41 |
here is the simple answer for you:
- sell your 20V with the ecu and wiring loom
- buy a bare 4agze and dont open it up
- fit a t-28 turbo
- run it with an aftermaket ECU
there that's it! simple, cheap, replacable, reliable
it's a proven path, why not use it?
|
while this topic is quite recent i might jump in with a question of my own if no one minds im thinking of doing a gze transplant into my ae82 and turning it into a 4agte, as you are talking about above... but does anyone know of a ball park price figure for a conversion like this??
cheers
|
depends on how much power you want to make.
it can be done for as little as 3k if you do most of the work yourself on the other hand if you want to do it properly your looking at more like 5-7k
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney.. North Shore
Registered:
May 2005
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sun, 03 July 2005 10:14
|
|
| 4agte wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 19:37 |
| 4agerolla wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 17:22 |
| Sam_Q wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 16:41 |
here is the simple answer for you:
- sell your 20V with the ecu and wiring loom
- buy a bare 4agze and dont open it up
- fit a t-28 turbo
- run it with an aftermaket ECU
there that's it! simple, cheap, replacable, reliable
it's a proven path, why not use it?
|
while this topic is quite recent i might jump in with a question of my own if no one minds im thinking of doing a gze transplant into my ae82 and turning it into a 4agte, as you are talking about above... but does anyone know of a ball park price figure for a conversion like this??
cheers
|
depends on how much power you want to make.
it can be done for as little as 3k if you do most of the work yourself on the other hand if you want to do it properly your looking at more like 5-7k
|
cool thanks for that.. i have heard alot of people talking about the conversion, but no figures on cost... cheers mate
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 20v conversion
|
Sun, 03 July 2005 11:02
|
|
Rukas, I just suggested using the 4agze bottom end because it is a cost effective way to go, and the standard internals will be able to hold the power you want.
I have heard of a gze bottom end with a 20v head many times before, but if you already have the 20v motor and you don't mind strengthening the internals, then go ahead. If you are going to turbo the 20v motor then make sure you go to someone who knows how to do this and also very importantly how to tune it successfully. This is a major step in getting it to work correctly because of the VVTi.
If you do this, it will be pretty unique...I haven't heard of many people doing this before...but expect to fork out 10 grand or more to get everything working as it should.
|
|
|
Location:
Blacktown
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
|
