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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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 Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 03:43
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I recently bought this Sprinter as a project car. I have next no mechanical expirience and hope to learn a lot from this.
PICS - http://andor.thefreebizhost.com/ae86/
As you can see from the photos she's a bit rusty. I'm striping it back to a bare shell for rust repair and a full bare metal respray. I'd like remove all the rust properly so it never returns as I plan on keeping the car for quite some time.
1) Can I sandblast my whole car to remove paint and rust?
2) If I also wanted to stitch weld my chassis and weld in a custom rollcage in which order would be best to do it? strip -> stitch weld -> rollcage -> rust repair -> respray?
3) If I paint my car in say a factory holden color, can I have doors/bonnet/hatch painted at different times or will you get a slightly different result each time?
4) I won't be able to afford to do any of this for about 6 months. The car is garaged and won't be driven. Should I be worried about further rusting? If so how do I prevent it?
Thanks in advance for replies.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 04:42
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1 Yes, you can sandblast all at once, but i would advise only sandblasting what you need at the time.
2 Strip > Repair Rust > Seam Weld > Cage > Paint.
3 ni
4 Buy some rust converter and liberally apply to affected areas. See welder in the morning if rust persists.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 05:48
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5) Seem rivet 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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Banned user
Location:
Liverpool NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 06:13
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What does the rust converter do? 
Could someone give me a technical explaination?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 06:30
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POR15
search for it
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Location:
victor harbor
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 14:02
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Rust coverter is an light acid. It neutralizes rust and coverts it back to good metal (to adegree) depends how bad the rust is.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 16:56
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Well i'm not trying to fix the rust with rust converter I just want to stop further rusting in the short term. I'll be cutting out the rust and welding in new metal as it should be done.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 17:24
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CANCER,what is on the surface you can see,multiply by ten you should.
If I totally loved this car above all others and needed to save it I would
1.strip the body and get it acid dipped.the body comes out clean of all bog,rust,sound deadener etc.price variable upon weight,amount of work lined up etc etc.
2.next best option.sand blast.at worst can damage panels but wil give a clean slate again like acid bath.the damage can occur due to the pressure of the air and abrasive sand pushing the light metal against the supporting frame in the panels.
3.remove all panels and glass from the car,remove rubbers etc,remove paint from around suspect areas with paint remover,physically cut rust out with an angle grinder.treat light surface rust with converter.prime.etc etc.get a book.write off all your spare time and cash for "the term of your natural life"and totally forget about girlfriends etc etc
4.buy a car with less rust.
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Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Fri, 01 July 2005 23:10
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That rust looks pretty hardcore buddy.
In all seriousness, I probably wouldn't bother. Some of those places that seem to have quite bad rust will be an absolute bugger to weld in replacements.
I think you'll find the cost of fixing this shell up will far outweigh the cost of buying a different shell with less rust. I understand this is being undertaken as a hobby/project, but don't you worry - any shell you buy is going to have plenty of work needed! I just think this one may be a little over-ambitious.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sat, 02 July 2005 06:52
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I stupidly paid too much for this car in the first place (got carried away in an ebay bidding war) and without having seen the car. It turned out the rust was worse than I thought and it only got worse as I stripped the interior. If I just buy a new car I will be out of pocket, whereas if I take the time/effort/money to do it properly I have peace of mind.
I guess once I have solid figures (quotes) in my hand I will weigh up the options and decide, in the mean time i'll continue to strip it and learn what I can.
Can you give me some vague idea how much acid dipping costs? Are we talking hundreds or thousands?
Thanks for some excellent replies.
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Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sat, 02 July 2005 09:33
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3 - yes you can, and if done right there will be no noticable difference in colour.
But the shell looks like it's terminally rusted... There's likely to be a tonne more around the windscreens, in the roof, and other places you wouldn't expect.
I bid you good luck if you take this on! And hope you're good with a welder.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 07:44
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| Andor wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 16:22 |
Can you give me some vague idea how much acid dipping costs? Are we talking hundreds or thousands?
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Thousands.
Shell needs to be completely bare (youll need to remove all the sound deadner on the floor too).
Its not just an acid dip either, itll be a alkaline dip to remove the paint, a wash, acid dip to rust convert, wash, and then and etch primer dip.
I did something similar in buying a rusty car for more than it was worth, then as i stripped it and found the rust was 10x worse than it looked.
I ended up having u-pull-it tow the shell away for free which they probably then crushed.
$3k down the drain 
Sounds like you have made the same mistake.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 08:13
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Crap crap crap!
Looks like it. Oh well now i've got some spares, and the car came with a brand new battery! haha 
I might do the suspension and engine conversion etc and use it as a track car then transfer it all over to a good shell later.
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Registered:
June 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 09:01
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yeah probably a better idea, rust is the main killer because its very difficult to remove all rust without costing a small fortune, it would be better to find another shell with no rust, or as little as possible. the only time getting an acid bath is worth it is if your restoring a 1960's ferrari etc. basically not on a sprinter. Better to cut your loses earlier then have the heart break of going though the effort and having the rust screw you over, good luck though.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 09:25
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ill be spending about 8000 on restoring an AE86 shell for the trueno...
anyone know a good acid dipper?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 09:31
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| Quote: |
ill be spending about 8000 on restoring an AE86 shell for the trueno...
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- Mind if I ask your reasons?
Other than expense are there any other downsides to the dipping process?
I do like the idea despite the expense as I plan on keeping the car for a long time.
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Location:
Bathurst
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 11:31
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The problem with dipping is that it gets into every nook and cranny in the car. Then it comes back to visit after you've painted the shell. Despite the best efforts of the companies that strip the shell it is nearly impossible to get all traces of acid out.
Mind you I've never had a car dipped. But I've got a shell I"m cleaning up at the moment and everyone is warning ne away from it.
I'm investigating media blasting. You can't use sand blasting because it heats the panels to the point of warpage. The latest techniques use baking powder or walnut shells because they don't generate as much heat. Its also used extensively in the US. There's not many in Aus doing it but I've found 2 in Sydney so far.
I know your rust looks bad but stripping the car to a shell will cost you nothing. I'd keep stripping it and get it quoted. Its not going to hurt anymore than it does already.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 11:33
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| Andor wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 19:01 |
Other than expense are there any other downsides to the dipping process?
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Ive heard reports of the acid seeping out of panel joins some time after the dip/respray and ruining paint work.
Other than that, removing/reinstalling every single bolt, all fuel/brake lines, etc can take a very long time.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 14:57
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coz i plan to keep my ae86 till im dead 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 14:59
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ive also heard that baking soda is good for blasting !
im not 100% of the dip yet
maybe just blasted and lead wiped
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Sun, 03 July 2005 15:25
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Excuse my ignorance; lead wiped?
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Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Mon, 04 July 2005 02:48
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Isn't lead wiping illegal, nowdays?
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Location:
Townsville
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Mon, 04 July 2005 03:14
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Thats pretty nasty. That stuff around the arches is pretty substantial.
I agree with your idea of turning it into a track car for sorts.
Our t18 was similar to that when we got it. Took a few days or rust removal to get it to a semi-usuable state. Some of that will really open up when you get into it, leaving some nice sized holes.
Dont worry though, flogging a car that you dont really care about around a track is a lot of fun
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Tue, 05 July 2005 10:23
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I've read all the POR15 documentation I could get my hands on from the PPC website (http://www.ppc.au.com/). It really sounds like magical stuff. Needless to say I'll be giving it a shot.
This is my plan:
1. Attack with a wire brush on a drill and possibly some paint stripper around the area.
2. Marine Clean
3. Metal Ready
4. 2 coats POR15 Paint
Sound about right? Any tips?
I won't be bothering with a topcoat as this is a tempoary fix till I can get a quote on cut & weld. I don't really care what it looks like in the meantime.
Plan to take photos during the process and will writeup my expiriences when im done.
Thanks again for all the great advice.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Tue, 05 July 2005 10:54
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http://www.ppc.au.com/roy.htm
If that car can be fixed then mine sure as hell can!
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Location:
northern beaches
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Rust/Respray/Stich Weld/RollCage w/pics
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Tue, 05 July 2005 11:29
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step 5. get some bolt on flares to cover the missing bits of wheel arch.
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