| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sun, 10 July 2005 14:53
|
 |
After months of careful driving my recently purchased '91 St185 I finally decided to give it a bit of a flog down some abondoned street when - to my horror - the car began to act up.
Symptoms:
--Pressing the accelerator actually decreased the speed / revs.
--When the engine fell below certain revs...around 2k, it stalled and all warning lights came up
--Managed to limp home by riding clutch a bit and keeping revs high
No odd noises from engine bay, no heat problems. A friend thinks it may be as simple as a vacuum hose coming loose? Anyone had a similar problem? Any help would be MUCHH appreciated.
Cheers
|
|
|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sun, 10 July 2005 15:40
|
|
-vacuum hoses (check all)
-charcoal canister, this one can make your car do some WEIRD shit, like you've outlined...
-have you given it a bash before?
-has it showed any other signs of acting-up before this incident?
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
September 2003
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sun, 10 July 2005 22:23
|
|
|
Make sure you have no Intercooler pipes/hoses come off or Loose.
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Mon, 11 July 2005 00:07
|
|
Yep check the following hoses / pipes:
-IC to throttle body
-Turbo to IC
-AFM to Turbo
-PCV Hose
The PCV hose can be a bit of a bitch to see... as with 99% of work on the GT4 the first step will be "remove the intercooler"
|
|
|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Mon, 11 July 2005 13:57
|
|
Hey folks thanks for speedy replies.
I asked a friend to help identify any suspect hoses but to no avail, even after removing IC could not recognise any loose/potential problems with the hosing.
I have taken the car to Stanthorpe and was at speed on the highway for a prolonged period, so definitely not the first time its been revved. Also recently had a car alarm installed, not too sure but the installer may have bumped something???
Anyways I am putting the call out if you are in Brisbane and know your gt4s PM me and theres a carton of beer in it for ya!! Good deal or what...
Cheers!
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Tue, 12 July 2005 14:47
|
|
Yes well, i got the following error codes - 21, 24, 31
According to my sources that means:
21 - O2 sensor
24 - intake air temp sensor
31 - Air-flow Meter signal (Open cct in VC signal or short cct between VS and E2 when idle contacts are closed.)
I'm sure all of these didnt cark it at the same time! But my mate did disconnect the 02 sensor and the AFM then reconnected them so that may account for the apparent "short" in those circuits.
Not sure about intake air temp - sounds sus.
Strathfield kindly offered to drive to my place to try and rectify this mess tomorrow arvo, so see how that goes, otherwise..Lance - you may be hearing from yours truly - dont see too many gt4s in Briz.
Thanks for all the help
Peace out
|
|
|
Location:
brisbane
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Tue, 12 July 2005 23:11
|
|
hey max
The O2 sensor and AFM error codes are due to us disconnecting them - they can be reset by unplugging the battery overnight (the case for most cars, i assume celicas are the same)- although your alarm might not like this - check with the strathfield bloke.
the air intake temp sensor error may be the cause - it could be that plug that we saw that wasn't connected - Would be good to post a pic of the unconnected plug and see if any GT4 buffs recognise it.
It could even be that an earth for the sensor has been disconnected maybe. not sure how the wires to the sensor run.
Good to hear Strathfield is coming to the party.
pete
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Tue, 12 July 2005 23:30
|
|
Just reset the ECU (Remove EFI fuse for a minute) and see if the codes pop up again.
Often if you reset the ECU the car will drive like p00 for a while until the ECU learnts its stuff again.
This is especially true on an older engine that isn't as tight as it was from factory.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Wed, 13 July 2005 06:28
|
|
The air temp sensor and the AFM share the same wire, as the air temp sensor is built into the AFM.
So whatever else you had unplugged might be the cause?
|
|
|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Wed, 13 July 2005 07:55
|
|
Strathfield guy came around and was being a total f-wit and trying to blame me for whatever happened instead of actually trying to figure out the problem i was having. Engine is blowing excessive smoke now but that wasnt till we tried running the engine with AFM disconnected.
Car was idling without stalling, but it was very rough and seemed unbalanced as engine bay was shaking. This is starting to give me the shits.
I have a pic of the engine bay, and the mystery plug, but am unable to attach it. Dont know the procedure.
The installer did say that 'the plug 'wasnt connected to anything when he was installing the alarm, so its unlikely that it is this that has come off and caused the problem.
<sigh> car has worked so beautifully up to this point. I still have yet to check for loose ground wires on intake mainfold. Could it having something to do with the ISC - or whatever the idle controller is on the throttle body?
However as before no loose hoses are evident. Reset EFI fuse, and same error codes persist.
Cheers ppl for help as this fiasco develops.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Wed, 13 July 2005 08:21
|
|
|
When you guys removed the AFM, did you unscrew it or unplug it?
|
|
|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Wed, 13 July 2005 08:38
|
|
two screws fix the afm plug in place. undid the screws and unplugged the AFM.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Wed, 13 July 2005 08:47
|
|
| sly83 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2005 18:38 |
two screws fix the afm plug in place. undid the screws and unplugged the AFM.
|
Im sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but you've just stuffed your AFM. Its a common mistake made by most people.
It is possible to realign everything inside, but you have to know what your doing.
Your supposed to pull off the little spring and pull the plug out.
So mate, get a new AFM pronto.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Wed, 13 July 2005 10:35
|
|
As per our phone converstaion.
Running the car without the AFM was a bad idea since the AFM in the 3sgte works backwards (0 airflow is 5V, lots of airflow is 0V)
So anyways, the problem with the car having difficulty to start and refusing to idle is more then likely cause u've flooded it and the plugs are fouled. (I had the exact same problem only a couple of days back)
To Fix:
Remove the spark plugs (i will put money on it they are black)
Clean spark plugs (use some fuel in a can)
unplug fuel pump (the access is under the boot carpet)
crank over engine to get all the fuel out (do it in 5 second spurts, so you don't over heat the starter/wiring)
put the plugs back in
plug the fuel pump back in
and start... might take a few times.
This will get us back to the original problem. Then we can work it out from there.
|
|
|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sat, 16 July 2005 04:16
|
|
Hi again quick question re: the ECU. I cleared the computer by disonnecting the battery, and have since attempted to restart the car - still no improvement - yet the error codes have not returned. Does this suggest that the problem is not sensor failure? ie. if there was a problem with the sensor/s surely the error codes would return.
Cheers
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sat, 16 July 2005 13:15
|
|
|
HAve you still got the problem starting the car? if you do, did you even do what i suggested you do in the first place?
|
|
|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sat, 16 July 2005 16:19
|
|
|
Problem isn't with starting of the car. It starts fine, just runs like crap once started (smoky and uneven engine noise). Havent got the tools to check the sparkies, but a friend is helping tomorrow with that. I am still thinking its an air leak as there are no apparent sensor problems and fouling of spark plugs would have only occurred after the fact of the original malfunction. Was just wondering whether computer woould detect sensor problems immediately if present, or if it took some time to establish sensore error in ECU. Thus eliminating the need to go thru the laborious process of checking each sensor's competency.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sat, 16 July 2005 21:11
|
|
My definition of starting the car is getting it cranked and idling smoothly. Which you obviously don't have cause it isn't idling at all. It just spitting fuel out the back.
Fouling the plugs would have been caused when you ran the car without the AFM.
If your going to ask for advice, at least listen to the advice given to you.
|
|
|
Location:
brisbane
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sun, 17 July 2005 03:37
|
|
Have now removed plugs (black and severely fouled as you predicted, cleaned them, cranked the engine with fuel pump disconnected, put plugs back in and started the car again.
Running a little better, however it is blowing heaps of white smoke (was black after running with AFM disconnected). Doesn't seem to be any water in the oil, although the coolant is brown (not sure if it has been this colour for a while tho) and also, the coolant level seems to have dropped slightly since a week or so ago.
Car still doesn't idle properly, and is not at all responsive.
No error codes are coming up.
What would be your next step? Im thinking a compression check is a cheap and easy way to see whether there could be issues with the head/head gasket - as these symptoms could be explained by a cracked head or blown gasket - lack in power, not idling, smokey, water loss.
Is there anyone in Brisbane that knows the GT4 well? southside if possible.
thanks mate
pete
|
|
|
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sun, 17 July 2005 06:32
|
|
take it to a pro mate, stop all this screwing around and bite the bullet!! that way if someething is broken (like what u had done to ur AFM by pulling it apart wrongly), the cost is on them.
if ur coolent is brown, and is busted after fanging the car, i rekon uve blown a Headgasket.
but like i said, take it to a shop.
good luck.
|
|
|
Location:
brisbane
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sun, 17 July 2005 07:30
|
|
Yeh
The AFM was never pulled apart wrong, sly was mistaken.
My money is on head gasket
cheers
pete
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Sun, 17 July 2005 08:35
|
|
keep in mind that white smoke could be left over residue of fuel left in the exhaust.
But if you've warmed up the car, and have taken it for a drive. And its still doing it.... and what you say about your coolant levels are correct. Headgasket has gone bye bye.
Time to see a pro dude.
|
|
|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Tue, 19 July 2005 04:41
|
|
Thanks for all suggestions and help over the past week. Got a mobile mechanic to assess the situation and he found that the turbo had indeed blown. No compression problems, but unfortunately an equally expensive problem. At the very least the housing will need to be machined and i think the bearing fixed?? not sure but I was quoted upwards of $2200. Does this sound accurate? I'll ring around.
And that is the end of that. (for now)
Laters
|
|
|
Location:
Lismore
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Tue, 19 July 2005 14:27
|
|
|
It cost me $950 to rebuild my ct26 plus labour ended up around $2000, good luck with ur car.
|
|
|
Location:
Coffs Harbour
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Tue, 19 July 2005 14:35
|
|
|
yeh my CT26 was rebuilt and highflowed for 2 k
|
|
|
Location:
Brizzy
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 04:08
|
|
Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread, but after like 5 weeks of waiting i finally got my car back. Albeit with a hi-flowed turbo and 3" dump pipe. Turned out there was some problem with the wiring in the AFM and the mechanic just re-crimped the wires into the proper spot.
Turbo was chipped and needed a rebuild but wasnt the source of the engine running so rough. So indeed it was a problem with not enough air being fed into the system.
Total cost about $1800, but with some nice mods and saving myself the trouble when the turbo REALLY booted itself - its not too bad.
Cheers all, thx for your help
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: st185 Gt4 Engine Stalling
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 04:20
|
|
I know you've already fixed the problem now but I thought I should add for anyone else with this problem that it can be caused by the ISCV as well.
To test just unplug the ISCV while the car is running.
|
|
|
