Toymods Car Club Inc: Tech & Conversions => Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild

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RobST162
Forums Junkie

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003

Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 12:30

This rolla made it to the last (like, not this one, the one before) dyno day and was the highest power 16v 4AGE on the day. We suspected gone bearings and had our suspicions confirmed today. What do you think could have caused this? This whole engine was cleaned up and made ready for re-assembly professionally (Dominator), ie machined crank, oversize pistons, machined bores, new bearings etc etc etc How crazy does it look! Like the bearings have just had chunks torn out of them! #4 piston (strangely) was the worst one, but they are all scored. #2 has some damage too. Oil pressure was great upon rebuild and the head seems fine. What do you guys reckon? [Updated on: Mon, 11 July 2005 12:31] [Report message to a moderator]

Mr DOHC
Forums Junkie

Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 12:51

excessive timing [Report message to a moderator]

oldcorollas
Forums Junkie

Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 12:52

any chance you could email me a hi res version of the second pic? what bearings are they? why did the soft metal (if it has any) delaminate? etc etc edit: bearing contact can only occur when there is insufficient oil pressure to maintain the oil film.. either there was not enough oil for the forces being exerted or the rpm (high rpm sheds oil faster for a given clearance) or maybe the clearance was just too tight? hmmmm, are those bearings lined up in order? and 4 was worst? unbalanced flywheel (where ealse does the force go), or bent crank? were there any funny vibrations when it was going?? [Updated on: Mon, 11 July 2005 12:54] [Report message to a moderator]

SW20R
Forums Junkie

I supported Toymods

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 12:55

its a curse! my bottom end went today. with the biggest knock you'll ever hear. it made 140kw at dd11 last week! a/f looked all fine i thought the engine was dying.. but now its dead 2 other mates cars have bottom ends go too. and the guy who towed my car tonight one of his clients also had a bottom end go.. LOL [Report message to a moderator]

RobST162
Forums Junkie

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 12:58

yeah timing was standard, and the car ran premium oldcorollas -> do you want to PM me your email? or I can reply if you want to send me one I am "toymodsATroblincolne.com" I would love to send a high-res, I only took it at 640x480 though, not really high-res, I can take more on Wed. I would IMAGINE that the bearings are high-quality coming from a toymods sponsor. (The pistons we bought through them were ACL.) The job seemed quite good. I was thinking somewhere a blocked gallery? And if the engine was cleaned up to spec, then this is also unlikely, and the pressure was high... The installation was very careful with everything oiled before being placed together. edit: I mean REALLY, what would cause bearings to just lose the plot like this other than no oil at all!? [Updated on: Mon, 11 July 2005 13:00] [Report message to a moderator]

barned01
Regular

Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 13:07

i had a bearing that looked similar to that in nmber 3 on my 18rgeu when i bought it. previous owner said they had the crank hardened and polished. when i pulled the engine apart i noticed the bearing that looks similar to your picture. an incredibly close loook of the crank (magnifying glass close) revealed a minutely small hairline crack in the journal. going the direction of the crank (front to back if that makes sense). the conclusion for my scenario was that as the engine heated up, the crack would have expanded and would have been enough to scratch at the bearing on every revolution thus eating it away to make it look much like yours does now. don't know what caused it in the first place though. [Report message to a moderator]

oldcorollas
Forums Junkie

Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 13:20

you have mail.. (i hope) no1 bearing looks scored like normal if things are bad.. no4 looks utterly rooted and either rusted or the bearing surface totally delaminated... not a pretty sight [Report message to a moderator]

RobST162
Forums Junkie

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 13:30

and so do you! I hope yeah man very ugly.. #2 has a "small" section ripped out of it, #4 is wasted, #1 and #3 are just badly scored. Edit: grrr wrong info Hey, at least the bearing was still there. That's more than we can say for last time around heheh Actually, thinking about what I wrote in my email, if the bottom bearings are way worse perhaps the clearances were too large allowing for some real bashing of the bearing???? I really am an ignoramous in a lot of this. [Updated on: Mon, 11 July 2005 23:49] [Report message to a moderator]

allencr
Regular

Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?

Mon, 11 July 2005 18:26

Quote:

Interestingly, it's the bottom bearings not the top that are bad. The tops are scored, but nowhere near the damage we see on the bottom.

by "bottom" you mean the rod cap, right, and the "top" is the bearing in the rod????
that half, "bottom, doesn't get much of a load at all, not the compression & power strokes, just the intake stroke and coping with the inertia from the exhaust stroke, so i think you mean the half in the rod that most would call the "top" half of the bearing .

looks like they're fatigued to me, from lugging and/or detonation.

http://www.thirskauto.net/BearingPics.html

[Report message to a moderator]

Allan
Forums Junkie

Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 23:03

i would say the engine had too much clearence this allowed for it to put out higher numbers due to less friction but a few more miles and its ended up with to much clearence to keep an oil film. can you take a photo of the writing on the back of the baring please! [Report message to a moderator]

RobST162
Forums Junkie

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Mon, 11 July 2005 23:29

allencr, uh huh, I understand what you are saying. Don't know why I didn't think of it like that thanks for setting me straight. EDIT: MY BAD. Just spoke to my mate who pulled them out yesterday - I was there but freaking out over the condition hehe. It IS the rod-ends that are wrecked. That clears that up. My bad, sorry for any strained brain cells. Allan - I will try and get a piccie of the numbers this evening. You could see a "shadow" of the writing from the bearings on the cap but I think that's normal. [Updated on: Mon, 11 July 2005 23:37] [Report message to a moderator]

Ben Wilson
Forums Junkie

Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Tue, 12 July 2005 00:09

What would cause a bearing to delaminate like that? Most failed bearings I've seen tend to be smeared around. [Report message to a moderator]

RWDboy
Forums Junkie

Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Tue, 12 July 2005 03:54

Too many big end bearings are going bad lately. [Report message to a moderator]

Mr DOHC
Forums Junkie

Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Tue, 12 July 2005 06:59

i had a bearing go not long ago, just had too much timing, and it looks IDENTICAL to the closest one in the first pic. the 2nd one is just scary. i'd be getting the rods resized, but get them checked for roundness b4 they do it, just so u can rule that out as a cause [Report message to a moderator]

RobST162
Forums Junkie

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Wed, 13 July 2005 02:03

Allan - ok writing on back of bearings (they are ACL bearings) says "17FE04 1780 1.0" We are maybe thinking the crank was overmachined right now... [Report message to a moderator]

Toobs
Forums Junkie

I Supported Toymods

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Wed, 13 July 2005 05:04

What has Terry @ Dominator said about it? [Report message to a moderator]

RobST162
Forums Junkie

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003

Re: Big-end bearing failure with pics - 6 mo since rebuild - any ideas?	Wed, 13 July 2005 05:30

ok Nick (owner of corolla) just visited him Terry was super helpful - suggested that it wasn't over machining but a timing issue, as a machining issue usually has tell tale wear signs in certain areas. Our timing was standard, but if something else was out? going to take crank in tomoz or fri [Updated on: Wed, 13 July 2005 09:17] [Report message to a moderator]

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