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Location:
sa
Registered:
July 2005
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has it been done v6 in ta22
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Fri, 15 July 2005 12:57
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hi new here just wondering if any 1 has done a 3.8 v6 conversion yet in a ta22. I did 1 in a datsun 1200 ute and a supercharged 1 in a gemini both went hard and handled good with the extra weight. Wondering if anyone new how a celica would handle the extra weight. Any comments whould be great.
thanks
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Fri, 15 July 2005 13:13
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It's been done, although I can probably promise you that people on here might not give you a very warm reception for suggesting using the Buick V6 in anything...
Still, I'll be nice  Personally, I think there are better engines than a Commodore V6 for the job - they're easy to get and not too hard to mount in most cars, but not a very nice motor - although if you're familiar with what they're like, and are happy with that, then go right ahead.
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Location:
sa
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Fri, 15 July 2005 13:18
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thanks mate just wondering what advanagte the toyota 6cly engine have in terms of bang for buck eg:v6 trans computer loom radiator etc $650
thanks
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Fri, 15 July 2005 13:19
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You can pick up a 1ggte/loom/ecu/trans for about 1200 these days.
And its gonna be much nicer than any old commo v6
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Fri, 15 July 2005 13:21
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Depends which Toyota six You can get the Commodore V6's pretty cheap, but they do still drive, well, like a bit lighter Commodore. Be great for a paddock car, and probably a cheapish way to make a bit of a burnout machine, just I like something a bit higher revving myself.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Fri, 15 July 2005 22:28
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judging from the response i got for my sr20det in my ra23 i don't think many ppl would appreciate a holden v6!
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Location:
sa
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sat, 16 July 2005 06:15
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you said its been done do you have a contact for the person who did it thanks
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sat, 16 July 2005 07:11
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TA22's have pretty ordinary handling even with the little 2T under the bonnet. Chuck a big heavy cast-iron V6 in there and it will be a lead-tipped arrow. On the other hand you probably don't much about handling, so if you just want something with a lot of straight-line poke and torque galore this is probably the cheapest way to do it. Definitely not my cup of tea, but to each his own. 
One thing though, have you investigated whether such a conversion would be street-legal? 3.8L is pretty big for a sub-1000kg car.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sat, 16 July 2005 09:18
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I've seen a TA22 with one in it, but I don't know who's car it was, and have no idea what was involved. If you're keen on doing it, head to the local wreckers with a ruler, tape, pen and paper, measure the engine bay on a TA22 and a Buick V6, and you'll soon know if it's going to work. Also take a look at the sump, trans tunnel size, mount locations, etc. to know if it's going to be difficult.
One suggestion I can make is to maybe consider an RA23 Celica (looks similiar, but bigger under the bonnet), with a 1GGTE (or even a 1GGZE - this is where the blowers that Commodore guys love so much come from in the first place) in it. It's not that hard to mount in there (provided you get a 1G with the correct sump+mounts), a reasonable gearbox can be bolted right on (W5x Toyota box ('Supra 5 speed) is a lot nicer to use than a T5), and by golly, it'll actually idle smoothly too
If you're insistant though, maybe an RA23 is better for the Buick V6 too. It's a fairly compact engine being pushrod, so should leave enough room for exhaust headers etc.
Another possumability would be the old-school pushrod Toyota V8 (I'll let someone else suggest a 1UZ) - it's compact, looks old-school, and is still a Toyota engine Do a search on here, someone put one of these into a TA22 a few years ago, and turbo'd the thing for added fun, and it looked pretty tidy.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sat, 16 July 2005 10:35
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| Celica_John wrote on Sat, 16 July 2005 07:58 |
judging from the response i got for my sr20det in my ra23 i don't think many ppl would appreciate a holden v6!
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i was stoked to have heard about your car John, one of the first few i have read about on these forums with a running SR20T..
id much rather a different brand of jap motor go in there (ie mazda, nissan..) than a poo-ick v6....
but if you want to do it go for it! good luck, sorry for no constructive input 
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Location:
sa
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 05:58
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just had a look at the ra23 looks a bit like a 2 door tc td cortina. motor will fit no worrys heavy spring and shocks, twin sway bars
(took it for a drive handle like a bucket of s**t) then it sould handle and drift gearbox is a full manual auto there is even enough room for twin turbos.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 08:57
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So everyone is correct in that you don't care about the handling too much if you want it to be a drift pig .
Should've known seeing as your from SA
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Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 09:39
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| v6ta22 wrote on Fri, 15 July 2005 22:57 |
hi new here just wondering if any 1 has done a 3.8 v6 conversion <snipe> and a supercharged 1 in a gemini
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How much mucking around did you do to get the conversion on the road ? My brothers wanting to do it to his TC gem, but so far he hasn't had much help in the way of what needs to be done.
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Location:
sa
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 10:02
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so your saying drift cars dont handle
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Location:
sa
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 10:05
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for gemini you can all you need from castle main rodshop or make your own engine mounts, sump, and gearbox crossmember.
its a very good conversion very smooth
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 11:58
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Well I guess everything is relative. Maybe he's used to driving agricultural equipment?
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 12:48
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if you've already replaced 4cylinder motors with that 6 in 2 other cars, you could answer your own question better than any of us, I'd think.
Most will throw 'wild guesses' at you
most folks here don't like buick v6s
I dunno which version you have down there.. the newer series 3800 with balance shaft or the older.
Sure, they're not as smooth or rev like the japanese 6s, but they make up for it in "grunt".
Once the motor is tuned and you gear your car properly, that 'crappy' v6 will stomp those 'smooth' other 6s.... whether both n.a., sc or turbo, I'd put the buick up against any one, and spend far less to smoke them
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 13:34
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Sharp as Big Don looks, he still lets me drive his tractor sometimes. It's so smooth that the front wheels only launch off the ground every time you let the clutch out
quest, unfortunately I'm about to shoot you down In Australia, the Commodore V6's all have the balance shaft, and what a jolly good job it doesn't do. As an interesting comparison:
My mother's car, a 1994 VR Commodore sedan, 5 speed manual. Was bought new, and hasn't changed much in behaviour in the intervening years. This thing is positively gutless, wheezes and farts, but this 'amazing bottom end torque' that people seem to go on about is well and truly not there - and I've driven enough Aussie cars to know they're all about the same really. It won't rev past 4000rpm without being forced, and it lets the entire neighbourhood know that it's not happy if you dare to try. I've replaced the timing chain (it had the usual problem and streched the crap out of the original one, becoming even more gutless), it's got a 2.5" exhaust with Pacemaker headers, but where's the bloody grunt? And it sounds positively rotten, all the rattles etc.
Another mate of mine drives an MX73 Cressida, which a couple of months ago we put a JZA80 2JZGE into (a whole $800 with ECU and loom), along with an R154 5 speed. This car weighs a bit more than the Commodore, is powered by a 'jap crap twin cam 3 litre' engine - so how the hell can it compete with the 3.8 litre Buick V6?
Well, guess which one is quicker - and not just by a little bit either. Guess which one will rev towards 7000rpm. Guess which one uses less fuel. Guess which one idles without shaking the whole car.
quest, I sure hope you're a gambling man
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 13:59
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| quest wrote on Sun, 17 July 2005 22:48 |
Once the motor is tuned and you gear your car properly, that 'crappy' v6 will stomp those 'smooth' other 6s.... whether both n.a., sc or turbo, I'd put the buick up against any one, and spend far less to smoke them
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ahh i love it...
3.8L will make max of what.. 380Nm torque IF it is very efficient..
3L jap crap turbo running 1 bar of boost will max out at 600Nm torque with same efficiency numbers..
add to that the "gearing" of which you speak, ie 3.8 geared for what? 5000rpm? 5500rpm? compared to 3L jap crap six going over 7000rpm.
quick plug into calc.... you have no hope 
just because people throw a motor away and you get it for nothing, doesn't make it a good motor, or even good "bang for buck"
i would wager that a 3.8L brick V6 vs a 3L 2JZGE, both with similar amounts spent, would always loose. it just doesn't have the volumetric efficiency AND the revs to make up for the jap crap motors lack of "grunt".. or is it "ugh" it is lacking?
heh heh, we could go on like this for days 
even funnier, the L26 brick V6 puts out 150kw and 312Nm... which is not a patch on my STOCK 4cyl jap crap motor.. putting out 190kw and 325Nm.... wait.. thats 4 cyl.. with more power AND torque than the buick??? maybe it needs more "ugh"...
[Updated on: Sun, 17 July 2005 14:38]
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 14:06
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| mrshin wrote on Sun, 17 July 2005 23:34 |
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has to be said
check out the dish
how many ciggie packs it fit in dere ?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 14:14
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heh heh, those AE86 boys have nothing on Big Don
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Sun, 17 July 2005 22:48
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hehehe
u guys have a totally different culture.... and if all buick v6s run like that, u have issues. Why would anybody consider it as swap material if thats the case? Dumb, eh? CERTAINLY not the same here.
We have hoards of stock 100k+mile long block, stock tranny, stock ecu rwd buicks in the LOW 10sec catagory! Track wt ~3650+ pounds. Not one piece of wt reduction or trailer here. On asphalt, using MT ET streets they will lift one or both front tires on a 5psi launch - it makes u dizzy. They run flawlwess on their owner hacked GM ecus. Fck $$$tandalones. Done with a 5700 redline, so Fck rpms too .....and yes, they're not silky smooth as the others. Look elsewhere for that.
Tell me, how are the counterparts doing, same mods ?
I've owned a buick GN in early 90s... just wasn't comfortable with the way the big sedan would break traction and go sideways so easily on my $$$ lo profile street rubber. (Reality is, I'm a nimble 'corolla man'). Under acceleration the only noise you could hear from the 'pooick' was turbo whine - no 4cyl could match that experience.
That same buick v6 set alot of track records, while porsche, bmw, toyota etc... tried. They had a 6sec capable drag car way back in 1987 while the GN was still in production! Where are the fasteast import 6s in 2005 ?? Don't tell me anything about that crappy v6... lol
The n.a. and sc projects here are equally as impressive.
So much for the threadjack.... stick with your 4valve mindset
yeah, nice dish haha
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 03:30
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different mindset because of different engine
sound slike you are talking about the turbo bugger... well, we only get the NA (and maybe the SC) versions, but point in discussion here is the NA 3.8 vs the comparable 2L turbo and 3L NA/turbo toyota 6's....
now if you wanna talk big displacement turbo, need i point out the twin turbo 1UZ's? only 200cc more
for those buicks of which you speak, to run low 10's they need to be around 800 flywheel hp. compared to 200hp stock.... i think we are no longer talking stock engines
so what boost are they running to quadruple the stock output? around 40psi? quick calc, 800Hp at 5700rpm = 1000Nm. with 100% volumetric efficiency. you need MINIMUM of 24psi...
the buick GNX made 480Nm with 15psi... (2bar absolute, it should be getting 650Nm, so it has about 74% VE.. still.. and it mae max torque at 2000rpm.. not 5700rpm..)
extrapolating that to try and get 1000Nm, they will need around 37psi of boost to make 800hp at 5700rpm, assuming it still stays at 74% efficiency, which is unlikely at such massive boost levels..
now a 2JZ with 40psi? anyone care to guess? as a quick ref, that JUN supra was making 750ps and 800Nm on 24psi... now if that was just wound up a bit
oh and GM hacked ECU = Delco? = standalone ECU option with Kalmaker
hacked = NOT stock
40psi = NOT stock
yeah 4 valve mindset i like my 2 valvers thanks, but 4 valve just typically has higher VE...
and i still think either 1GGTE, 2JZGE, 2JZGTE, or 1UZFE will be a helluvalot nicer than an NA 3.8L buick motor. if you want to talk turbo, compare buick with the turbo 1UZ in the GT8....
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 03:34
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pffft imports....
i love that american mindset
our "domestic" cars and "domestic" beer is so much better than the rest of the world cos we're number one
"America.. Fuck Yeah"
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 03:41
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| oldcorollas wrote on Mon, 18 July 2005 13:34 |
pffft imports....
i love that american mindset
our "domestic" cars and "domestic" beer is so much better than the rest of the world cos we're number one
"America.. Fuck Yeah"
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didn't you know pushrods are the way of the future, stuff hybrid and fuel cell my friends they are back and back in force.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 03:55
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pushrods pull da chix
and to people with the mindset that a drift car does not handle...
well poo to you I say...its not just about the skids...good line and quick speeds are essential for victory...and that cant be done with cars that dont handle
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 04:11
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| MR 1JZ wrote on Mon, 18 July 2005 13:55 |
pushrods pull da chix
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dont forget how super duper sexy an open differential is
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 04:16
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| quest wrote on Mon, 18 July 2005 08:48 |
hehehe
u guys have a totally different culture.... and if all buick v6s run like that, u have issues. Why would anybody consider it as swap material if thats the case? Dumb, eh? CERTAINLY not the same here.
We have hoards of stock 100k+mile long block, stock tranny, stock ecu rwd buicks in the LOW 10sec catagory! Track wt ~3650+ pounds. Not one piece of wt reduction or trailer here. On asphalt, using MT ET streets they will lift one or both front tires on a 5psi launch - it makes u dizzy. They run flawlwess on their owner hacked GM ecus. Fck $$$tandalones. Done with a 5700 redline, so Fck rpms too .....and yes, they're not silky smooth as the others. Look elsewhere for that.
Tell me, how are the counterparts doing, same mods ?
I've owned a buick GN in early 90s... just wasn't comfortable with the way the big sedan would break traction and go sideways so easily on my $$$ lo profile street rubber. (Reality is, I'm a nimble 'corolla man'). Under acceleration the only noise you could hear from the 'pooick' was turbo whine - no 4cyl could match that experience.
That same buick v6 set alot of track records, while porsche, bmw, toyota etc... tried. They had a 6sec capable drag car way back in 1987 while the GN was still in production! Where are the fasteast import 6s in 2005 ?? Don't tell me anything about that crappy v6... lol
The n.a. and sc projects here are equally as impressive.
So much for the threadjack.... stick with your 4valve mindset
yeah, nice dish haha
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like every other american car goes fast in a straight line but they forgot two key elements suspension and brakes hehe.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 04:52
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dont forget that they left behind science in the 1940's
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new stuff is the tool of the devil........the tool i say, that reminds me......i havent played with my tool today
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 07:09
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whats all this about old technology?
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In 1905 Delahaye had experimented with a double overhead camshaft with six inline valves per cylinder for a marine racing engine and set a new world's speed record on water.
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Les Charlatan's Peugeot, though, was the first automotive application of the twin overhead cam concept and set the pattern for all future twin-cam designs. The first race the team entered was the Grand Prix de l'ACF at Dieppe on June 26, 1912
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Alfa Romeo built its first twin-cam engine as far back as 1914
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In 1928 he established a twin-cam production engine for the company's superb line of high-performance luxury cars. Stutz followed in 1931 with the 32-valve eight-cylinder DV32.
A wise man once said to me: "doesnt matter what it it is, if it goes, it goes."
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Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 07:14
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Faark so they are THAT far behind !?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 09:45
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>>"A wise man once said to me: "doesnt matter what it it is, if it goes, it goes."
EXACTLY!! What it is....is ALL that matters around here tho.
cmon, now lets keep this civil and not turn it into an "american thing". Pretend the motor came from Egypt... or Iraq, or wherever u choose. I now own all imports.... Feel better?
I put simple questions to you;
1. how are the "marvelous motors" doing with the same mod$$$ ?
2. what ETs are the "far superior imports" doing ~18years later ???
you guys constantly put down any 2valve motors like they're wothless.
The turbo buick is but one example;
my cam cost $175, valvesprings $65.... add up import cam/valvetrain bits and get back to me. Add up what it costs to install standalone/pay tuner, vs the STOCK GM ecu hack/owner tweaked route.
I'm speaking of 'sizzling' performance that can be duplicated by ANY GN club member following a proven set of recipees on a daily driver. Thats why the car has a cult-like following. Smart people. Get it?
Here's a n.a. example. Ever hear of a camaro/firebird ? The last gen had a gm 3800 as a 'base model' (the slow one). First 3800/5speed manual factory option. Never driven one I guess? Its a pretty smooth driving/good performing piece, bottom line. That "gutless junk" v6 propells that heavy arse 3400+ pound rwd to 15.3sec ETs. Ecu 'tweaking, alone give u significant gains- enough to push you in the seat in a 3.8 auto tranny, big 5 passenger sedan! You can pickup a complete drivetrain for ~$1000. You really think such a mill wouldn't move a lightweight ta22 along smartly ?
That is all
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 10:37
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Just a few things though:
The V6's we saw in Australia are in no way suitable for big power operations in stock form. The crankshafts are but one fundamental example... Standard, they are lacking strength, lacking power, rough, dirty and often thirsty (I've heard many people claim they've had great runs on the highway, but never yet seen anyone actually fill one up and achieve it!) The problem here is not just the fact that the engine itself was bad, but also the people that buy them. For example, Ford Australia took a reasonably good 4.6l 4 cam Mustang motor, and decided it needed the 5.4 litre truck bottom end to put it in the Falcon. Not because it would have more power, but so they could sell it up against the 5.7 litre LS1 (now 6 litre LS2) Commodore. In the process they basically ruined what was a good engine to start with.
Not that long ago, Holden finally ditched the pushrod V6 in favour of this 'marvellous' HFV6, with variable valve timing, 4 cams, aluminium block, etc. - what should be a reasonable engine. However, the couple I've been in are so much like the old Buick engine it's frightening - but the fact remains, the people won't buy anything that doesn't seem like the old one.
Not all '4 valve' engines are good, of course. I don't automatically like an engine because it is an 'import' or '4 valve', it's just that the Buick V6 never did a whole lot to impress me much. I've never seen the factory turbo version that Americans seem to speak so highly of, so I can't comment on it, but the supercharged and NA versions did little to excite me.
Of course, there is one final thing: really speaking there is NO such thing as a good otto cycle engine - no matter how many vavles they have etc., they still achieve apalling thermal efficiency, and therefore consume enormous quantities of fuel for what they actually do, are extemely dirty, noisy, and are old technology that is well past its time. However, many people, myself included, have grown to enjoy playing with the things, as well as the discussion/debate that it brings.
Never take it TOO personally, and as long as you enjoy what you do, that's great. Just don't automatically assume someone is an idiot because they suggest a slightly different way of doing something may be better!
One more thing: I was in Hawaii a couple of weeks ago, and American beer is utter crap
[Updated on: Mon, 18 July 2005 10:38]
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 10:58
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| mrshin wrote on Mon, 18 July 2005 20:37 |
One more thing: I was in Hawaii a couple of weeks ago, and American beer is utter crap
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LOL, i'm in Boston next week...
not all US beer is crap.. there are some nice microbreweries around (like Millstream for example.. run by germans of course ) but i think i'll be sucking down more than my fair share of Zinfandel to make up for japans lack of ANY good wine 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: has it been done v6 in ta22
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Mon, 18 July 2005 12:43
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Yeah, but the mainstream stuff is pretty ordinary - then again, most foreigners still think Australians all drink Fosters...
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