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blofly
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Bunbury
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July 2005
icon9.gif  1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Tue, 19 July 2005 15:09 Go to next message
hi all this is my first post Very Happy I have 2 toyotas currently, one a 1986 FJ62 Landcruiser wagon and the other a 1988 Camry ultima it has 214,000km on the clock and is very comfortable to cruise in, the only problem is since I bought it 2 months ago I have been getting a mere 330km to the full tank of juice! thats worse than that of the landcruiser!! would anybody have any ideas what I could do to cure the drinking problem? the exhaust tip is caked with thick black carbon which I can only see to it running very rich and making me very poor at the same time!
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menace
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June 2005
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Tue, 19 July 2005 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You should get the o2 sensor checked out.

Injectors may be dirty.

Has the car been serviced recently?
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SmellyTofu
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 02:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Should get minimum 500km out of a tank (this is not full empty). I regularly got 600 without a problem.
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blofly
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July 2005
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
there is no 02 sensor there been under the car crawling and looking for it everywhere then I took the cat off to inspect it's condition thats not the problem either because the cat is hollow! I don't know where the biscuit went but it is not there!
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blofly
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 03:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
just checked the cold start injector and it is opperating normally, it is sprraying fuel while the engine is cold and then after it warms up it doesn't spray fuel so what else could it be? I am really stumped on this one! maybe I should check the injectors now how do I test them?
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dingaling
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What engine is it? 3s-fe? 3s-f? There should be an o2 sensor plumbed right into the exuast manifold, are you sure it hasn't been taken out, and the hole blocked off?

check for error codes using the diagnostics block? (could have a bummed air flow meter)
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blofly
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 03:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the engine is a 3S-FE and I had a good look around the exhaust manifold to check for an o2 sensor but all I could see was a small fitting in the front of the engine pipe right at the engine pipe to manifold flange it has no wire attached to it though?? and I don't know anything about checking the diagnosis function at all
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dingaling
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 04:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
very strange, (i am %99 sure you should have an 02 sensor plumbed in somewhere on your exuast) even my mums carb 3s engine has an o2 sensor. (do you have aftermarket extractors instead of stock exuast manifold.

Anyway find your diagnostic block find a paper clip or a bit of wire and short pins E1 and TE1 (might be listed abit differently like T1)
Turn your ignition on and look at the flashing engine light on the dash, if there is a problem it will most likely flash a code out for you (or more then one code).
here is an example of how to read the flashing engine light:

flash..flash..flash....flash..flash

which means code 32 which in turn means probelme with your Air-flow meter (I can tell you what the codes mean when you get back to me.)

If it just continually flashes then there are no error codes stored.
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blofly
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July 2005
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
darn I can't find the diagnostic block I had a look under the driver side dash and kick board, then the passenger side kick board and under the bonnet too still no luck Sad
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dingaling
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 04:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Try looking near the firewall on the passenger side. A picture of your engine bay wouldn't go astray either.
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blofly
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Wed, 20 July 2005 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheers I will have a look for that tomorrow and as an interesting experiment I popped the bonnet and disconnected the connector from the cold start injector and drove it to the petrol station then filled it with standard unleaded, then I inflated the tyres to 38PSI and went for a country cruise! I drove from Bunbury W.A. to Perth W.A. then around Perth city for about 1 and a half hours then drove home, I didn't go over 2000RPM in the city and I set the cruise control to 100KMPH I arrived home in my driveway with an indicated 462KM on my clock and a low fuel warning light! woooohoooo thats an extra 132km more than usual! will check the diagnostic analysis tomorrow and I also noticed that when I bang on the rear muffler I can hear some thing moving and rattling in there maybe it is the remnants of the Cat should I remove it and try to clean it out or buy a new one? they are about $100 new
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FWDCelica
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 01:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blofly wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 00:19


I arrived home in my driveway with an indicated 462KM on my clock and a low fuel warning light! woooohoooo thats an extra 132km more than usual!


You got too much time on your hands!
It's not unusual to get better economy on a country trip.

blofly wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 00:19


I also noticed that when I bang on the rear muffler I can hear some thing moving and rattling in there maybe it is the remnants of the Cat should I remove it and try to clean it out or buy a new one? they are about $100 new


Take it to a muffler shop would be my advice.
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DanielJ
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July 2002
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The 3SFE engines in the Camrys definitely did not come with an O2 sensor, however the carburetted version did. Strange I know, but true.
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kingmick
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No Message Body

[Updated on: Thu, 21 July 2005 10:58]

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blofly
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
just checked the diagnosis thingy with a paperclip between terminal T and E1 then put the key in the inition and turned it on until the dash lights lit up with oil, lights and brake warnings and then the check engine lamp flashed 5 times then 1 time then over and over again in that sequence, so that would mean a fault code of 51 yeah? does anybody know what fault code 51 is?
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kingmick
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the carby ones had an o2 sensor to run electronic secondires, but there wast many of them.all the injected ones have an o2 sensor.
mick
p.s its running in WOT mode.check fault codes.

[Updated on: Thu, 21 July 2005 11:00]

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CamryMan
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May 2002
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think I'd be too scare to run the Camry to 500Km. Mine reaches 420Km in city driving when it dips below 1/4 tank. I think country driving I about 600km fairly comfortably.

I know it was getting 380km before I figured out the air filter was dirty and needed a change.

If the exhaust tip is very black, maybe your oil seals need replacing.
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CamryMan
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May 2002
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Only the earlier SV21 Camry 3SFEs had O2 sensors. It's a big red plug that goes into the exhaust manifold.

My 1990 SV21 doesn't have an O2 sensor.
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kingmick
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
camryman why dosnt it?the computer run of TPS and MAP?
mick
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dingaling
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 21 July 2005 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
perhaps the o2 sensor is further down the exuast after the cat converter? (on those models that don't have an obviousl o2 sensor.
(maybe they really don't have one??)

Anyway a code 51

'51
SWITCH SIGNALS
IDL (tps) CONTACTS OFF, NEUTRAL START SWITCH OFF, A/C SWITCH "ON" SIGNAL TO ECU

WITH DIAGNOSTIC CHECK CONNECTOR SHORTED

--A/C SWITCH/CIRCUIT

--A/C AMPLIFIER

--TPS/CIRCUIT

--NEUTRAL START SWITCH/CIRCUIT

--ECU"


Did you have your AC on when you did the code check? Maybe The AC clutch is constantly engaged, which will reduce your fuel economy.

Also worth checking your Throttle posistion sensor, (re-calibrate it) i can probably send you info on how to do this) Or try another TPS and see if the code goes away.
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CamryMan
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May 2002
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Fri, 22 July 2005 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Only the newer Rav4 3S-FEs were MAP. The SV21s were definately airflow.

I had my whole exhaust changed to extractors and 2" mandrel bent pipes and we ended up finding out the late model SV21s don't have an O2 sensor.
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blofly
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July 2005
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Fri, 22 July 2005 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
if you could tell me how to recalibrate the throttle position sensor it would be fantastic! I will go out now and have a look at it!
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dingaling
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Fri, 22 July 2005 00:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
interesting stuff camryman.

blofly: i will look at my camry service manual when i get home from work and get the info for you. (i hope it has the info for re-calibrating the TPS) You will need a multimeter, and possibly some feeler gauges.

Will let you know today asap.

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domasik
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Fri, 22 July 2005 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yea my camry had a problem with the TPS but it didnt really affect fuel consumption. try doing these things...

Full engine flush
Full cooling system flush
New oil and oil filter
New fuel filter
spark plugs
leads (if needed)
air filter
clean your throttle body (when i got mine it was FILTHY!)
make sure u have no holes in your exhaust


thats all ican think of for now but have a go at those things and see how u go, fuel filter will defiantly help, especially if it hasnt been changed in its 214000kms!

im not sure if the 3sfe have oil breathers in the rocker cover but if they do replace that, i got an extra 100km/tank when i swapped mine for a new one in my pulsar, and it only cost me like 12 bucks or seomthing.
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CamryMan
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May 2002
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Fri, 22 July 2005 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The oil from the head feeds back into the manifold, or wherever it normally goes.

You can put a breather in there as a mod but it's against EPA laws. You can also attach an oil/air seperator as a mod if you have the desire to do so.
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domasik
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Fri, 22 July 2005 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ok cool, i wasnt sure about the 3sfe but if it hasnt got one no need to put on in it i only thought of it cause i did it on my pulsar, but like i said have a go at all those other things and see how you go
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blofly
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July 2005
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Fri, 22 July 2005 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I just installed a new rear muffler today but after I did that I noticed another problem, it has a few pin holes and small cracks in the intermediate pipe between the rear muffler and catalytic converter, it has a small hot dog shaped resonator thing in between too, I pulled the electric drill out and attatched a wire brush tool to it an proceeded to clean the area with the pin holes and small cracks with the drill, and made the holes and cracks into nice large pitts! then went to the auto parts shop and bought a muffler and tailpipe bandage and followed the instructions by warming the engine up to operating temp and fitted the bandage nice and tight then went for a 30 minute drive and come home again checked the bandage and OH NO! the bandage is all loose and falling off so looks like I am up for a new intermediate pipe between the rear muffler and catalytic converter YAY after that I will give it a full service and then have the injectors cleaned or if I can do it my self that would be even better, is there a way I can do it my self? I found a camry service manual for my car but it costs $40! so if anybody wants to sell one come and see me! I am having a hard time finding info on the net but this site has been a great help Very Happy
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blofly
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Location:
Bunbury
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July 2005
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Mon, 25 July 2005 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I went to a fuel injection service centre and explained my poor fuel economy issue with the bloke there. He then suggested I deliver the car to him with a quarter of a tank of petrol and $230 in my pocket, where he shall then take the car round back and hook it up to a fuel system cleaner and air fuel monitor which he claims shall sort the injectors, fuel rails and lines out if they are partially blocked with gums and varnish, he also said it will decarbonize the combustion chambers a little and make the engine run a fair bit better, the service also includes a shiny new fuel filter Very Happy but should I try misting a small amount of water into the running engine before i take the car to him to try and reduce the carbon build up?
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blofly
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Bunbury
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July 2005
Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 28 July 2005 04:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ok heres the update, I have installed a new standard cat back exhaust, the cat is now hollow, there is no O2 sensor anywhere to be found, I have changed the ignition leads and distributor cap and rotor button, changed spark plugs, squirted throttle body cleaner down the spark plug holes and left it over night then started it up the next morning in an attempt to clean any excess carbon out of the combustion chambers and piston tops, flushed the engine out and changed the oil and oil filter and then bought a service manual that explained how to check the throttle position sensor, I checked it and found no circuit between any pins which indicates that the computer thinks that the throttle is always partially open about 1/4, ordered a new throttle position sensor which should be on this arvo and then I will have the injectors and fuel rails cleaned and the new fuel filter on soon after that it is just a matter of running the car for a week to see how the fuel economy is. Tune in next time for part three of the 3S-FE fuel consumption issue Very Happy
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FWDCelica
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Re: 1988 Camry ultima getting 330km to the tank Thu, 28 July 2005 07:59 Go to previous message
blofly wrote on Thu, 28 July 2005 14:57

Tune in next time for part three of the 3S-FE fuel consumption issue Very Happy



Can't wait Laughing Laughing

Try use paragraphs too.
Easier to read
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