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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Mon, 25 July 2005 15:52
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I been chatting to KiRK with the celica and he has a similar set up as me...he told me that he has replaced his stock AFM with a MX83 Cressida. I am just wondering if anyone else knows if there is a diffrence beetween the 1g AFM and the 7M. From his expirience he said that the his car runs better and has't maxed out the AFM like i do constatly on 14psi.. Does anyone else know more about this??? I know they both plug straight in...but would this work...and increase the airflow and stop the Fuel cut from maxing out the stock 1g one.
If this is true it would solve my pesky fuel cut problem...thx
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Mon, 25 July 2005 15:55
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Not sure dude, but if it does fit straight in, I know that the 1uzfe AFM fits the 7mgte as well. Raises our 'boost cut' to something ridiculous.
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Mon, 25 July 2005 16:04
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That's what I been thinking as well.. Since the 7M is a bigger displacement engine then it would technically be able to flow more air...i am very curious if this would work because then I won't need to go stand alone ECU just to get rid of the boost cut...I'll wait and see if anyone else will know more..
When does the 7M AFM max out???
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Mon, 25 July 2005 16:06
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The 7mgte AFM on a 7mgte maxes out at 11.4psi or something like that. Kinda depressing as thats when it gets up and boogies. No idea as when it would max out on a 1ggte though... Gunna have to let the Toymods gurus answer this one...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Mon, 25 July 2005 23:29
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IF staying with the standard ECU you will also need to icrease the Injector size the same % as you are increasing the flow through the AFM
Effectively tricking the ecu 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 00:02
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Note the 7M-GTE uses a Karman-Vortex airflow meter, as opposed to the flapper-type meter in the 1G series engines, so obviously they're not compatible.
The 7M-GE AFM might work OK if you can figure out how much more flow it has compared to the 1G AFM (if any at all), then install a set of bigger injectors that flow more fuel to match - same as the 7M-GTE 1UZ AFM mod. Keep in mind this sort of thing is a bit bodgy and should be considered a band-aid solution. If your engine management doesn't do what you want it to do, the correct approach is to replace it - not try to fool it with smoke and mirrors.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2003
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 00:18
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Hope you have checked your Air/Fuel Ratios
| KiRK wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 10:05 |
This is interesting... I didn't even think about changing the injectors when changing the AFM.
Does anyone know what the difference in flow is between the the 7m and 1G or even the 1U and 1G?
Cheers,
Kirk
EDIT ---------------------
I replaced my 1G AFM with what I beleive to be a 7M AFM, when I purchased this AFM it had MX83 scribbled on it in wreckers scrwal and was told it would work on a 1G.
The reason for replacing the AFM was because when you hit higher in the rev range and on 14psi the engine would lose all power (Probablly boost cut). As soon as the larger AFM was installed everything was happy once again.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 00:26
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Ditto. If you 7M AFM does indeed flow more air, the ECU will think there is less air being consumed than there really is. Yes that will move boost cut to a higher boost level, but it will also cause the engine to go lean throughout the rev range. Needless to say this is bad news.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 00:51
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You would have to retain the 1G electronics in the 7M housing.
And then put in bigger injectors.
Same way the 7M guys use a 1UZ AFM housing, with 7M sensor, and 20% larger injectors (give or take)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 02:02
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I had it on a dyno a few weeks ago and there was no sign of it leaning out...
Hmm something for me to look into 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 03:04
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7m gte injectors are somewhat 35-40% bigger than 1g items if not more, if you did a swap to these injectors when changing afm i would think that the ecu would have a different duty cycle programed into it and then hence the car wouldnt run right by just changing injectors. You can adjust afms to richer or leaner, is it possible that this could be your solution to lean out.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 03:44
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7MGE dude.
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 03:56
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So i guess this mod is out of the question then...too much mucking around for a band aid approach...just curious how Kirk Pulled it of..thats why i thought i ask before i go and buy an AFM and try it...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 04:00
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If you have access to a wideband o2 sensor you can borrow for a few days give it a try by all means.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 04:08
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I'm just throwing in a wild guess here... but maybe the more aggressive tuning of the gen 3 doubled with the Mines ECU is what is making this effective for me.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 04:11
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| indian wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 13:42 |
what were the afr,s when u had it dynoed
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At 150rwkw the AFR was around 12... 12.2
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 04:22
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damn that still rich so its all good u need a 14 for perfect mix
anyone heard of the vpc thats supposed to elliminate the afm altogeter
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 04:26
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14:1 is dangerous for full throttle on a turbo dude.
You want to aim for 12-12.5:1 for safety's sake.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 04:27
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Yeah, 14:1 is for cruise - at WOT you want to be a lot richer than that.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 04:29
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hmmm didnt know that iil kep that in mind , i was just told that around 14 would be the best afr but now aboviously not under full load
so maybe safc setting should be 14 on idle to before boost lollllll either way iil ahve to see what happns when i fit mine on
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:04
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Either way if you running o2 sensor and factory computer at cruise your closed loop will take over and will give you an afr of 14.7
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:09
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Not if you have the wrong injectors.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:15
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| CrUZsida wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 15:09 |
Not if you have the wrong injectors.
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Why not? Depends how it does it, essentially I doubt it's smart enough to know anything other than "it's too lean, we need more fuel".
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:32
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 15:15 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 15:09 |
Not if you have the wrong injectors.
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Why not? Depends how it does it, essentially I doubt it's smart enough to know anything other than "it's too lean, we need more fuel".
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It would have safety margins in there, limiting how much adjustment it would have.
Lets assume one injector sticks open.
The AFR will skyrocket.
Now the ecu will back off fuel to lower AFR.
Problem is 5 injectors are putting in 'perfect' fuel.
If it backs of enough so the AFR is back to normal, 5 cyls will be lean, one will be uber rich still.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:35
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| CrUZsida wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 15:32 |
It would have safety margins in there, limiting how much adjustment it would have.
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Fair enough, this bit makes sense. I suppose it would depend on just how bit the difference is between the injector size, which from memory is a non-issue for the 1GGTE and 7MGE, which would appear to have the same size injectors.
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:38
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Do what do u guys reccon...is it do-able on a gen2 1ggte..or its a waste of effort and money...i know i am being cheap buy not going to stand alone...buy i just want to see if there are other solution before shelling out the big bucks...and mucing about...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:40
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I would assume that *if* the 7M afm was bigger (just like the 1uz/7mgte one) then you'd upgrade the injectors to something in the 350-380 range, with maybe some fuel pressure tweaks.
Someone do it and find out !
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:40
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But would the 7mge flow more..since it is bigger displacement engine but non turboed...
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:42
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I don't want to upgrade the injectors...i have no need for that modification...not at the power level i am looking at..Otherwise i might as well get rid of the AFM all together...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:43
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| BLK1GGTE wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 15:40 |
But would the 7mge flow more..since it is bigger displacement engine but non turboed...
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Unlikely given it makes less power and has the same size injectors. By all means though, grab a wideband O2 sensor or take it to a dyno and find out 
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 07:44
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I might do that...only since it has worked for KirK so maybe it will do the trick for me...i can get one AFM on this forum for 100bucks...+ dyno..
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 08:41
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i got both, 7MGE and 1GGTE(gen3) AFM's here in front of me.
they are physically identical while looking at them and the parts no.s for the 1GGTE and 7MGE are 197100-3600 and 197100-3630 respectively.
sticking one finger in each at once, pushing down, the 7M AFM has defiately got a more taunt spring controlling the flap.
plugs are identical
be interesting so see if it makes a 1g run super lean
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 09:23
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Just making sure here...
So the output side of the AFM is identical?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 09:33
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Either way your still stuck with an oversized uber ghey afm
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 09:35
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I think 'undersized' is what you are looking for.
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 09:47
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photos
$1 for somebody who can tell the difference 
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Location:
Pine Rivers QLD
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 11:20
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7M's on the left???? did i win a dollar?
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 12:24
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any more takers??
the answer wil be revealed shortly
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 12:41
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I'll grab the part number of my AFM tomorow... I know it is definately bigger than the 1G item. As I said in a previous post it has MX83 scribbled on it in wreckers scrawl, though it doesn't mean it is one 
Maybe somebody on here can confirm the part number with something else.
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 12:49
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that 7M AFM in the pic is off a MX83 cressy
part no. is on the other page
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 26 July 2005 14:23
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Thanks a lot for that brett_cellicacoupe...maybe i'll try this after all and see if it works...u want to sell the AFM???
If the spring is tighter maybe it can delay the fuelcut and i can richen it up with the Blitz piggy back i got. Might be worth a shot...thanks for all your input...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2003
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Wed, 27 July 2005 05:49
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The 7M one is the clean one, it also looks like the bypass is functional, not blanked off like the other AFM.
Passage on the right in the first pic, adjuster covered by the small black cap in the second pic.
The bypass my be big enough to just raise the boost cut from 14psi for it to be effective!?!?!
It is a common mod in the BFMR (323 GTX) world to open up the bypass as it can also be used as a fine tuning tool.
My 2c
ps. Do I win that dollar??
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Wed, 27 July 2005 08:54
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any more takers??
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1G AFM vs 7M AFM
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Tue, 30 August 2005 08:05
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Well fellow toymoders... I am going to try this mod on Dyno day 10th September....if it works, I'll post the results... This will give me a chance to check my AF Ratio and see if I have raised the AFM max-out point past 14psi...
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