| Author | Topic |
|---|
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 03:26
|
 |
Gidday All,as a new reader of your forums looking for GOOD advise about my son,s 1987 3SGE Sx that seems to keep me poor,( sorry,does keep me poor)i,m looking for advise on whether to have the bottom end rebuilt or toss the lot away and get a low? Km Jap import for about $1,150 plus install ( they say it comes with 6 mths warranty??).
The original motor has done under 170k and the car is A1 condition but things are always going wrong.Just spent a fortune replacing seals,gaskets and timing gear.
WHAT TO DO?? 
|
|
|
Location:
QLD, Gold Coast
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 03:32
|
|
|
well look at it this way, you could replace the bottom end, but the condition of the engines internals maybe stuffed already and pointless to just replace (bottom end), getting a 2nd hand 3sge with 170,000km you could also have the same problem unless you inspect the whole engine, or you could rebuild the whole engine and make it pretty much brand new as i have done, quite costly, but if he plans to keep it for along time then maybe the way to go.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 03:34
|
|
|
How Costly?
|
|
|
Location:
QLD, Gold Coast
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 04:28
|
|
|
rebuild, well depending on what you need, well you will at least need new pistons, if the old ones have had it, but finding OEM 3sge ones might be tough as they don't make them anymore, but i would estimate 1500-3000 roughly, i paid 3600 for mine but had custom internals done and bored/honed and balanced the engine.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 05:00
|
|
Thanks for your reply,after reading it i got a warm fuzzy feeling inside,NOT.
Anyway,once the full extent of damage is accessed i,ll make up my mind.
What if any warranty do you get with a rebuild?
|
|
|
Location:
brisbane
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 05:34
|
|
hey, who ever gave the the price of 1,150 dollars is fuckin dreaming, i bought my 92 model 3sgte (turbo, intercooled, 90K) for 1200.
shop around a bit, a gen 1 3sge should be no more than 600 - 700
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 06:18
|
|
|
1 word..... 3sgte....
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 06:28
|
|
| WantaTurbo wrote on Fri, 29 July 2005 16:18 |
1 word..... 3sgte....
|
thats not a word, its a series of a number and letters put together to describe an engine 
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 07:16
|
|
| Corona RT142 wrote on Fri, 29 July 2005 16:28 |
| WantaTurbo wrote on Fri, 29 July 2005 16:18 |
1 word..... 3sgte....
|
thats not a word, its a series of a number and letters put together to describe an engine
|
ooohhh them's fighting words! or was it word? or w3rd?
*cough*
A Gen1 3SGE you should be able to source for $750, I think SSS has 'em for that. Can swap the motors over in an afternoon. If you need to borrow a hoist I may be able to help.
If you want a motor a little more perky and newer try a Gen2 or 3 for $1200 and up.
A rebuild like Julian said ranges in price from $1500ish to whatever you want to spend. That way you know it is new and can get warranty, but a replacement Gen1 is your quickest and cheapest solution, but has fewwer guarantees.
|
|
|
Location:
new castle
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 08:15
|
|
who this SSS guy/place as i'm in the same boat and might need a rebuild/replacement engine, but not sure what is exactly fucked in my engine.
i've found a guy thats selling whole car (so i can have gearbox and engine and everything else) for 1500, and the engine was just rebuilt 5000k's ago
is that a good deal?
|
|
|
Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 08:32
|
|
first why are you having so much trouble with a toyota engine that has done 170k ?lack of servicing or its being thrashed?. getting another engine import engine is going to need,water pump,thermostat,new gearbox seal,timing belt set,filters,plugs,engine and radiator flush and a new clutch depending on wear, etc etc. and you still wont know how the engine has been looked after before you get it into your car.6 months isnt long as far as motors go. a rebuilt one will cost you abit more{around the $2500}but you will know what you are getting.warranty on a rebuild can be from 3months-12 months depending on who does it. import is the cheaper way and can be fantastic,but it also has its pit falls.
mick
|
|
|
Location:
Coffs Harbour, NSW
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 11:06
|
|
make your son pay for it
i know im paying for all my shit, and im 17
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide - Race Central
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 15:45
|
|
It depends on what your sons plans are, and how long you intend to keep the car. the 3sge is a fantastic engine, and well-worth rebuilding, however, it does come at a cost. I can tell you that my 3sge engine by itself is worth about $15,000 alone. with the rebuild costing half that price 
its a lot i know, and i'm not saying this is the way to go, but, it is effectively a new engine and will go a long way before i need to do anything else to the internals.
When i blew the main bearing on the engine (at 335,000km's) i was thinking what you are thinking now, rebuilt/swap/upgrade to turbo. and what it came down to was
1. rebuild - more expensive, new engine, modified internals
2. swap for low km's - what is ACTUAL milage, why was it out of the original car? any other problems with it, clutch/water pump etc
3. turbo - open a new ball game for modifications
i decided for the rebuild coz i wanted to keep it non-turbo and wanted, more than anything, a 'new' engine. howver, as a low cost option, the swap IS a good idea and depending on where it is done, can be just as effective as a rebuild
|
|
|
Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 21:44
|
|
wtf!
mick
|
|
|
Location:
Bathurst
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Fri, 29 July 2005 22:31
|
|
It may be worth it to pay an engine builder to strip the motor and examine the internals, measure tolerances etc. You might then be able to make a better decision. If the motor's pooched anyway there is not a whole lot to lose.
If you want less hassles you'll have to spend a bit more money on a decent rebuild. Imports can be a bit of a mixed bag. You might get one that lasts for years or one that lasts 6 months. There are some dodgy importers as well.
As for replacing internals its not absolutely necessary. Pistons for example can be easily refurbished depending on their condition.
For what its worth I stripped my 4AGE and took all the parts to the rebuilder for cleaning, machining and measuring. I then tacked everything back together myself.
Rough costs=
Block hone and chemical clean - $120
Head service - $200
Crankshaft machine - $50
Piston Rings - $100
Big end bearings - $70
Main bearings - $70
Full Gasket Kit - $270
Thrust Bearings - $25
Consumables such as oil, coolant, gasket cement, install lube etc etc - maybe $100.
You'll also need some good tools like a torque wrench and piston ring compressor.
Just a thought.
|
|
|
Location:
new castle
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 00:56
|
|
|
yeah its times like these you need to be mates with a mechanic
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 01:21
|
|
Thanks for that,i reckon rebuild is the way to go as you say you know what your getting ( hopefully ).
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 01:30
|
|
Thought we were getting a bargain, previous owner bought it new and only drove it locally ( so he said ) but after a short time found plenty wrong and obviously little maintenance done on it.
For sure,the boy has probably given it a bit too much at times ( isn,t that what 17yo do!! ) I know i did ( long time ago )
Its a great little car to drive but i,m getting sick of throwin $$ at it.
|
|
|
Location:
new castle
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 01:31
|
|
can you let us know how you go with getting it rebuilt as i think i'm gonna have to do same thing...ie cost wise and all that
just coz i'm pretty much in the same boat as you are
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 01:34
|
|
|
Will do,price may vary as i,m in SA country,so freight and stuff will add up.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 03:50
|
|
There's nothing wrong with import engines. I was in the same boat, had spent almost a grand repairng the original motor and it still carked it in the end. I picked up an imported motor & g.box, changed the crankshaft oil seals and clutch ($400). Now it drives like a new car - no leaks, doesn't burn oil, starts everytime and a 30% increase in power as a bonus. Only hassle was with the transaxle which is being replaced under warranty. I'm very happy with it.
Soz, all these different opinions are probably just confusing you more. Everyone seems to go their own way when faced with this problem.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
December 2003
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 09:31
|
|
i myself have decided to go all out on a gen2 NA motor-heaps of head work, microtech, big cams and forged bottom end-so again it all depends on how much you want to spend, will he want power upgrade or just a rebuild to standard and get a new/refurbished engine.
Just have a think about it anf iof he wants more power etc, tell him to get a job and pay for m,ost of it himself!!
|
|
|
Location:
Fraser Coast, QLD
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 11:37
|
|
I blew a water pump and lost all the water which overheated the engine (it almost siezed) in my st162 3sge. I decided 2 get a 3sgte halfcut and do the conversion. It cost about $2500 to do the conversion. It leaves the 3sge for dead.
After doing the conversion I looked at the 3sge and the head was in need of a straighten etc and the bore had one heat spot, ie i could of used the old engine but would of cost about $500 to do the head.
My point is if u want to hav sum fun, do the conversion!!!!
Ty
|
|
|
Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 13:57
|
|
To be honest I'd toss the lot away if I had the money to do so. Rebuilding is usually a cheaper option for myself as I have alot of the tools required to do so - but for most getting a new engine is cheaper and easier.
It's only an ST162 - just spend as little as possible to keep it going, or consider getting a newer car! The 1st gen 3S-GE is not really the best of motors ever built, I would try getting an MR2 motor (either gen 2 or gen 3 3S-GE) and stick that in the ST162. Importing a motor can be a hassle because of emissions equipment, difficulty of finding history of the engine, finding out the condition of the engine etc etc.
|
|
|
Location:
new castle
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sat, 30 July 2005 14:49
|
|
its all pretty much gonna come down to how much you wanna spend... if its for your son (who i assume is P plater) doing the conversion mighten be smartest thing giving new driver a shiny new turbo and what not and all the extra power
but 2500 for a conversion compared to 1000+ or so to rebuild... but its pretty much up to you
|
|
|
Location:
Fraser Coast, QLD
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sun, 31 July 2005 02:47
|
|
Id b careful with buying a mr2 3sge. I was looking at buying one when the gen I 3sge stopped. The bloke who was selling them (an importer) said that the 3sge wont fit. I cant exactly remember Y not but thats wat he said...
Good luck
Ty
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sun, 31 July 2005 03:30
|
|
| billmchenry wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 12:47 |
Id b careful with buying a mr2 3sge. I was looking at buying one when the gen I 3sge stopped. The bloke who was selling them (an importer) said that the 3sge wont fit. I cant exactly remember Y not but thats wat he said...
Good luck
Ty
|
http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/3S-GTE%20Conversion.ht m
Refers to a 3SGTE swap, but is still relevant to the non-turbo.
Depending on your budget you might also want to consider cutting your losses, selling the Celica and putting the money you would've on the engine rebuild toward a newer car with less issues. If I knew how much I'd end up spending I definitely would've considered this option.
|
|
|
Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Sun, 31 July 2005 04:02
|
|
| havabeer wrote on Sat, 30 July 2005 10:56 |
yeah its times like these you need to be mates with a mechanic
|
Not necessarily, if u can get your hands on a workshop manual, its got step by step instructions so even a monkey can do it 
|
|
|
Location:
Chirnside Park, VIC
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Mon, 01 August 2005 03:16
|
|
| smashed_wombat wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 13:30 |
| billmchenry wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 12:47 |
Id b careful with buying a mr2 3sge. I was looking at buying one when the gen I 3sge stopped. The bloke who was selling them (an importer) said that the 3sge wont fit. I cant exactly remember Y not but thats wat he said...
Good luck
Ty
|
http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/3S-GTE%20Conversion.ht m
Refers to a 3SGTE swap, but is still relevant to the non-turbo.
Depending on your budget you might also want to consider cutting your losses, selling the Celica and putting the money you would've on the engine rebuild toward a newer car with less issues. If I knew how much I'd end up spending I definitely would've considered this option.
|
personaly i'd go and do this too, i've got a ST-162 with a 3S-GE and when mine decided that just didnt want to go anymore i had an engine change over to a reco engine in from HM Gen engines, cost me $2,500 plus install, but mind you its got new pistons in it, among other things, and im still throwing money at it because there are some other problems that have arrisen now, so i'd say cut your losses, get a newer car, and tell your son to get a job and pay for a bit of it at least, he might cut down on doing crazy stuff if he knows he has to pay for it
|
|
|
Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Mon, 01 August 2005 03:52
|
|
| Quote: |
It's only an ST162 - just spend as little as possible to keep it going, or consider getting a newer car!
|
| Quote: |
Depending on your budget you might also want to consider cutting your losses, selling the Celica and putting the money you would've on the engine rebuild toward a newer car with less issues.
|
| Quote: |
and im still throwing money at it because there are some other problems that have arrisen now, so i'd say cut your losses, get a newer car, and tell your son to get a job and pay for a bit of it at least, he might cut down on doing crazy stuff if he knows he has to pay for it
|
All very good advice - to be honest, more and more these days I find myself subscribing to the japanese way of just dumping old(er) cars before they cause too much of a headache 
|
|
|
Location:
NSW - Blue Mountains
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Mon, 01 August 2005 06:49
|
|
If your son is going to keep the car for long enough to make a rebuilt engine worthwhile then go for it, i had an engine rebuilt just last week, cost $2200 with a 3Year 100,000KM warranty. Like others have said it will cost anywhere between $1500-$3000+.
If you do go with this option you will have to make sure he doesnt thrash it for at least the first few thoushand KM's otherwise you will end up with more problems.
cheers
chris
|
|
|
Location:
new castle
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Mon, 01 August 2005 07:08
|
|
start looking for second hand 3S-ge thats what i'm doing seeing as mine is fucked might have found one for 200
might be inheriting someone elese's problem
|
|
|
Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
|
Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Mon, 01 August 2005 07:20
|
|
well said CoronaC. frustrated father im most impressed, your son is very lucky. frustrated father i dont know were you are but if you are on the central coast i can recommend someone to do the rebuild.i trust this person implisately and know you will be getting a no problem engine.i dont ever recommend people unless i know they do the best job.
mick
|
|
|
Location:
new castle
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Mon, 01 August 2005 07:44
|
|
|
i'll glady take any recomendations... i can get to central coast easily. how much would this guy do a rebuild for?
|
|
|
Forum Sponsor
Location:
Shepparton (Vic)
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 3SGE Rebuild or Not?
|
Tue, 02 August 2005 03:19
|
|
|
I have an Import gen 1 3sge to suit st162 celica. This engine has just come out of a container and will carry a 90 day guarantee. Price is $975. I know this sounds exp but they are hard to find. I have sold many of these engines over the years and have only ever had one problem (valve stem seals).
|
|
|
