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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Thu, 23 January 2003 23:37
 
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HAHA, Another one converted. It doesnt take love to fall in love with a GT4 once you've driven it.
It looks like i'll be seeing you at the temple worshiping the GT4 God along side me on a daily basis.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 00:05
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HMMMMMMMM I want I want
But i need some money first
I think that is why not many toymodders driving them.
How much do kidneys go for on the black market nowadays???
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 00:12
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5 mill according to Packer
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 00:46
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Gt4's are ranging from $7500 for a 165 - which are a good car indeed , 11 thousand for a 1990 - 1993 st185 Gt 4 in good order ( i found 3 examples under 100 thousand Km on the clock, about 22 to 25 thosand for a st184 Group A - then all the way up to 35 thousand for a perfect st205 group A
And yes - I liked the way they handled - and i Know they can only get better with the attention im thinking ( ie suspension brake upgrades , intercooler/ airfilter changes - turbo to4 upgrade etc etc . Mthe one i wants already had a boost controller put in , turbo timer ,heavy duty clutchplate and the more freer flowing exhaust so most of the initial work is done.
Alls left to me to do is a good set of wheels , a decent stereo setup ( though it has a stacker ) and a few licks of paint here and there to cover the odd stonechip, and of course - the suspension counter the understeeryness in cornering they suffer a bit from - whiteline have a package that will most likely grace it in the future
to be honest - you'll spend 8 thousand on a twin cam 4ag corolla - why dont we just save up the few extra and buy the 4 paw turbos instead of nannas hotted up shopping trolly
* just kidding guys - a 4agze is a goooood setup in those 'rolla's *
I think ill still Keep my old ta22 at this stage - and finish cleaning her up - I love the old girl - As much as its a pig to drive - its still mega fun in the hills - and has the
right " noise " and look for an old school monster 4
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 01:39
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Here comes the grumpy old bastard...... 
My test drive of an ST185 left me feeling quite disappointed. I'm talking stock here, not an AVO enhanced thing. I really felt that it could do with a weight loss program, it just wasn't very fast.
The handling was crappy IMHO. I absolutely  HATE understeer.... 
The chassis was awesome though. The stiffest chassis that I'd ever felt at that time. Still ranks up there with the best.
I think the handling was fixed with the ST205? Not too sure though.
Anyway, just my 2c. Let the flames rain down! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 02:49
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FLAMES AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Nark, you are right the bog 1990 ST185 was a little slow due to its overweight nature but a very solid chassis. Keep in mind they built them real tough so that if they did happen to hit a tree or something they'd still be sturdy enough to finish a rally stage and not have a total loss in points the Grp A model that followed showed a vast improvement in weight and handling ability. Understeer can be cured quite easily with a really stiff sway bar for the back end, not the ideal or most balanced way to do it but nice and cheap to alleviate the problem a little.
A 3" exhaust system, turbo back and 10.5-11PSI boost makes a large difference to the cars performance. And youd be impressed with the difference.
The ST205 has a totally different suspension setup and most of the understeer is gone but being an AWD it still has a little.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 03:04
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Burn Nark Burn the one i drove was very smooth - was firm - but not a bone shaker thats for sure
and they do have understeer issues - maily cause the rear bars too small and they dont have enough caster adjustment in stock form to dial it out .. Ill post the article i found from " fast fours " if anyones interested - Was a very good and easy to understand read. They also commented on the understeer issues - and described 3 levels of improvment to get rid of most of the sloppiness..
the whiteline kit mentioned supposedly solves most of the " issues " regarding the handling dept to firm it and balance it out
They are beefy cars - though having driven Big fords - and small Celicas most of my life i found them a good balance ..
it felt heaps less " nosey " than dads ma61 thats for sure , dunno if the ra6X's have the same long nose syndrome feel to it?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 03:10
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Classique71,
Mate, as long as your happy with it, thats all that matters!
People bag the shyte out of my Soarer, but hey I don't give a flying f%^& She's my baby. Even if it does have a 7M in it.. hehe
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 03:10
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PS this one did have the 3 inch GORST pipe , running 10 psi of boost, and the fuel pump running at a higher level of voltage ( 15 or 13 constant instead of variable - performance wise - it would have spanked any big block v8 ive been in bar 1 fully drag spec XW , so it had the Go ..
Ill have to look into the lightening if i get it - dunno where to start though if i want to leave the interior as is ..
it doesnt have subbies - Soo - no weight loss gain there 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 03:15
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RVrolla - 7m's are ok too 
id like to see my dad slot one in his ma61 - but that requires big dollars he doesnt have
that car was made for more horsies BAD toyota for not using twincams more often
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 03:25
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how do theeses raet against a 3SGTE MR2 ??
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 03:35
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The MR2 are much lighter so they go harder but i think they still have some unersteer issues due to being lighter in the front, but im not sure on that its just what ive been told so feel free to correct me on the understeer for the MR2
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 11:08
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There aren't that many people that have nuts big enough to find those limits though......mine starts to understeer when the speed gets way beyond legal....way later than my ae92 or ra60 did.
Shocks/tyres/setup fix it. Same as most cars. Like Nark says, its nothing but compromise from the factory.
But anything with a factory 3sgte is good.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Fri, 24 January 2003 11:45
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my nuts are pretty small now after the crash LOL...
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Minnesota, USA
Registered:
January 2003
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 Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Mon, 27 January 2003 08:00
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mm... gotta love GT4's. IMO, the st165 is much more fun to drive. its lighter, stiffer and feels more rugged than the st185. the st185 is "civilized"
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I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Mon, 27 January 2003 09:37
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| gtfourdreams wrote on Mon, 27 January 2003 19:00 |
the st185 is "civilized"
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Exactly the same impression I got when driving a completely stock ST185 GT4 home for a friend. It's an extremely polite car to drive around, and day to day (unless you're really getting up it) you'd never know it was a turbo.
in standard form it felt a little strangled, but the obvious mods (exhaust, dump) would more than take care of that! 
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Location:
Sutherland, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Mon, 19 April 2004 15:21
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Good to see people catching on to GT4's.
If you buy a standard 4, splash out and put the lightweight Group A alloy bumpers on front and rear. This will take 60kg off straight away! (ever notice how having your mate in the car bogs you down??? how heavy is he or she???) what about a full tank of juice to add a damper to performance?? now tell me thats not the easiest mod ever, not ejecting your mates or fuel...the bumpers!
Like you'll hear from lots of people, the standard GT4 is heavy and until really pushed you'll never appreciate it. It likes being driven fast and hard and by f**ng golly it'll take it. It's not until you push the bastards to beyond their limits until you realise the potential of this fine rally car...it will never be a city street light drag zipper machine....unless you mod it or do the greabox ratio mod on a Group A hehe
Having said that, they are quite easy to mod and make them haul ass and handle well. Outta the box the standard 4 handles like SHITE! springs, sway bar, shocks and a front camber kit will see it out handle a lot of cars and I'll do another City to surf cruise to prove it again...and that was with 3½ cylinders.
I'm am lucky to own a Group A but luck played no part in my descision to finally get one. They are much lighter, have fuel maps to 18psi, have better gearboxes, shifters, power, water to air IC. looks, water sprayers, standard Group A suspension was better, it's a collectors item, blah blah blah.
I turned my baby down to 14 psi now because my wife hates fast driving (damn handbrake! she had me fooled until the ring went on!!!) and it still cracks. But it's not until you get over 12-13psi before it starts to crack. Big difference from 10psi!
Another misconception is putting a massive turbo on it. Avoid the lag. The CT26 spools up nice and gives the right torque down low when you up the boost and let it breathe with headers, a dump pipe and system.
I do like the sound of a RWD twin Turbo GT4 though...I would predict a very stable and controllable drifter for sure.
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Location:
Sutherland, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Mon, 19 April 2004 15:30
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Hi Justen,
May I suggest an import steering rack for you GT4 UZ185 to reduce the lock to lock now that you'll be getting the RWD arse out more!
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Mon, 19 April 2004 20:36
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GT4's r one of my new fav cars.. but new ground for my knowledge base...
Few Qs.
Whats does "AVO enhanced" mean and what mods are extra to standard GT4?
"Gt4's are ranging from $7500 for a 165 - which are a good car indeed , 11 thousand for a 1990 - 1993 st185 Gt 4 in good order ( i found 3 examples under 100 thousand Km on the clock, about 22 to 25 thosand for a st184 Group A - then all the way up to 35 thousand for a perfect st205 group A"
ST185 and ST184? Whats the diff? I know of ST185 GT4 Grp A... (I think)????
Are all ST185 Grp A's. Carlos Sainz Editions? If not what does the Carlos S. add to the regular grp A, other than ashitload of extra dollars?
How bad is the understeer in these things?
And SW20 and SW21??? Whats diff. (Guess I never understood so far the 1 digit variations in chassis code and what the relation means)
"my nuts are pretty small now after the crash LOL... "
What crash Les? When where and how? What were u in?"
"May I suggest an import steering rack for you GT4 UZ185 to reduce the lock to lock now that you'll be getting the RWD arse out more!"
Explain? What is so special about it and what exact modle is it out of?
Thnx for patience and my incoherent uneducated ramblings.
Ive been mainly spenging my time up until now on Rolla knowledge (which is still piss poor mind u).....
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 20 April 2004 06:29
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1. AVO is a workshop in Melbourne... I wouldn't know whether they're any good as its not really local to me
2. ST185 is the GT-Four... ST184 is just a celica AFAIK
3. In Australia we got the "Group A Rallye" in other countries they had the "Carlos Saintz" or ST185CS... ST185RC is also group A equiv of some country or other.
The GT-Four is also known as the Alltrac in some countries
4. Understeer isn't too bad at all (referring to Group A)... especially with the whiteline kit installed
5. Don't know... never paid any attention to MR2's
6. ?
7. Justen has an ST185 Grp A with a 1UZ (4L V8 Quad Cam) in it... Steve just named Justens car as per Toyota standards...
I have no idea how one could fit a power steering rack in as well as a 1UZ...
I too had a Corolla once but I decided it was time to get rid of the shopping trolley and let my hair out in a Celica
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW, Austra...
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 20 April 2004 08:01
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Wouldn't the 1UZ celica be called a UT185 or UZT185 since the chaisis is still the same but the engine has changed.
Classique71 im confused in ur sig it says you have an st185, but you say you drive a ta22
I would consider a GT4, probably group A spec when i have the money. What are the changes between the ST185 and ST205?
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 20 April 2004 10:43
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| Nark wrote on Fri, 24 January 2003 14:41 |
AW11s and SW20s did have a bit of an issue with understeer (and sudden oversteer). More in the AW11 than SW20.
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yeah the aw11 is somewhere between understeer and neutral.. then goes scary oversteer without any warning kinda scary the first time you drive the thing in the wet.
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 20 April 2004 10:45
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Camry_omega check out the original date of the classique71s post then check the date of whoever it was that dug this back up....
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW, Austra...
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 20 April 2004 12:02
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Oh, over a year old.
That would mean he did infact follow through and buy an st185 GT4.
My bad, still think they are a nice car.
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 20 April 2004 14:59
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I was reading the post thinking. "stu's buying another gt4 and he hasn't said anything............. basterd!!" then i read the date and was thinking WTF!!. As for the aw11 oversteering etc in the wet. i've pushed my car hard and never really had a problem with it. Sure its stood out etc but its easy to catch/correct!
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Location:
Central Coast NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 20 April 2004 23:03
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Hey all. I'm kinda new to the owning a car life. I've just bout a 90' SX and was wondering what the best way to turbo/upgrade it would be? It looks great and i'm still improving it but it needs more guts. Would a GT4 engine work wonders? If so do i need to convert it to all wheel drive for the change over? Or a front cut off a GT4 (if one could be found) If not a GT4 what other options do i have engine wise? As I'm new to all of this a few pointers would be great!
Thanks
Paul
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 20 April 2004 23:26
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yeah the 3sgte fits in no probs, look around there are *infinite* threads about how to do this.
ive just found that the aw11 dosent really give you any warning before the tail steps out, and when it does its fairly dramatic. where just about all FR setups ive driven tend to degrade gracefully from word go where the MR handles beautifully up to the point it lets go then goes ape.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Wed, 21 April 2004 02:15
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| Camry_omega wrote on Tue, 20 April 2004 18:01 |
Wouldn't the 1UZ celica be called a UT185 or UZT185 since the chaisis is still the same but the engine has changed.
Classique71 im confused in ur sig it says you have an st185, but you say you drive a ta22
I would consider a GT4, probably group A spec when i have the money. What are the changes between the ST185 and ST205?
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I thought Justen removed all the engine mounts etc. completely from the ST185 and created new mounts and modified quite a lot of the structural parts of the chassis...
I would still call it a UZXXX but since he removed the awd from it its probably more a UZ184 Grp A Rallye with a 1UZGTTE in it
The ST205 has the newer ST20X celica shape and comes loaded with a Gen 3 VVTI 3SGTE...
Its a much better package generally but I personally think that the money is better spent elsewhere
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Wed, 21 April 2004 02:58
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ill respond in greater detail tonight - my lunchbreaks ended !
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Location:
Vic
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Wed, 21 April 2004 03:21
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I am the proud owner of an early (no. 735!) ST165. I bought it because it is essentially a collectors item, and i didn't want my friend selling it to some random person. I only know of one other road reg'd one in Melb. In terms of comparability, there aren't many two door blown awd's of this vintage out there, the only one i can think of that comes close is the Familia GTX, which looks like a bit of a noddy car IMHO.
Though not perhaps as easy to extract power from as say an SR20DET, they do respond well to simple boost, intake and exhaust mods. The only achilles heel that comes to mind is cooling (engine bay gets very hot) and the stock computer (very limited tuning scope) but considering the unique-ness of the car, this is a small price to pay. It really is a mystery as to why there aren't more of them round, particularly now that import prices are so cheap. Your'e average 185 is basically the same price as a 165, perhaps one or two grand more!
The whiteline kits do wonders aswell...
Go the GT4!
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Wed, 21 April 2004 08:36
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ok - Questions answering in its briefest hard hitting way:
AVO enhanced - My gt4 has had a few additions performed to it - ie the 2.5 inch cat back exhaust, HKS boost controller and turbo timer and a few little odd sods here and there .. It was stock from turbo back when i bought it - its now 3 inches from turbbo back.
St184 - FWD - 5sfe slimline body
St185 - Gt4 - AWD , turbocharged 3sgte widebody
As per what others said - the St185 Group A came out in Many different guises and name badges - See below - mines not a group A - its an Oz Spec St185 Gt4
SW20 and SW21 - Mr2's one got Gen2 motors like the st185 - the other got the better gen 3
What do i drive ? I now drive the mentioned grey Gt4 - i USED to own a red ta22 , now owned and loved by Jezz - whos tweaking it further again than what i had it - good one !!
3sgte into A SX ? SEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND!! Draza and WISo are two good guys to pester
Handling in a St185 Gt4 - Stock - its good - but prone to understeer , and no where near as good as what it should be .
Ive cured this with a full " works " kit from whiteline - PM me if you want details .
Im also adding most of the better group A enhancements to my package to complete it - Im aiming on big HP - better handling , and brakes that make your eyes pop out ..
WRX's shiver , Evo's phear me ..
Re St185 Vs st205 ..
Allround the st205 is the advanced car - but its also rare and expensive to try and keep up with ..
When i bought my gt4 - i couldnt afford a group a ( look at the prices difference from my original post ! ) but ive still managed to get most of the good bits from the group A and build apon the gt4 package with a better exhaust , suspension , and engine - than a stock Gropup A has . The group A's are brilliant - but im still working to a trickled funds modification program , and Still - im yet to break 20 K for all the work + the car purchase.
Gt4's are undersetimated by the toyota community and the wider enthusiast communinty ..
It has what i feel the best 4 cyl motor ever built for power and strength capabilities + a timeless design for looks - coupleds to a near unbreakable drivetrain - all in a sub 15K package ..
thats ALOT of car for really not much outlay in dollars ..
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: GT4-SOME !!
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Tue, 27 April 2004 02:00
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hey all......just bought a Grp A ST185 for only 16,990 with 3 months warranty on parts and labour and 3 years on my gearbox (yer like that'll ever blow). just joined the boards too so ill c u round. if any u guys are intereseted, u should join celica.net or alltrac.net celica .net has a fair few members and rapidly growing, and the guys at alltrac really know their shit
i run 9PSI stock, 3 inch turbo back exhaust, hi flow cat, K&N air filter (which is shit BTW ATM.....will be changed wen i get the warranty up and i can touch my engine personally) and a blitz BOV......believe u me its not slugish, and it handles like a dream......u can pick up ur average 185GRPA for 20.....22 is excessive, mine i was lucky i got it cheap coz the caryard had no idea what they had......no93 of 200 in AUS
185000 on the clock, 5 16" mags, new tyres and 80% left on my brakes. looks mint, was a killer deal
later
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