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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 04:35
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If you still care about your rights as a citizen, or a driver, please have a good read and digest the information, and pass it on to whoever you know... This could change our future...
Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
http://www.cis.org.au/Policy/spr03/polspr03-1.htm
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 04:53
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It says as of November 2003 urban speed limits in NSW will be reduced from 60km/h to 50km/h so I'm guessing it's a tad old 
I remember on a Top Gear episode they had two graphs.
1: The amount of people being caught speeding. Which was a steep diagonal line from left to right (on the rise).
2: The amount of people dying in car accidents. This graph was virtually horizontal.
They also had a map of all the speed cameras in Britain and the roads in which most accidents occured where shaded in red and these roads had far too few speed cameras as opposed to roads with high speed limits.
Meh, what can you do?
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 05:03
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indeed youll never get rid of them there are 2 sets of rules in this society.. one for us and one for you know who.. gotta learn to live with it
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 05:05
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Yes, that report caused quite a stir, when it was released a couple of years ago. But not enough people took notice. 
The number of cameras in Britain is pretty shocking! 5,000 compared to 110 in NSW at the time.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 05:07
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It says as of November 2003 urban speed limits in NSW will be reduced from 60km/h to 50km/h so I'm guessing it's a tad old
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Yes, that report caused quite a stir, when it was released a couple of years ago
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Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 05:57
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Yeah it's been a while since that report have emerged, and at that time, politicians and "safety expects" dismissed the report probably without even reading it, most likely because it doesn't fit their agenda...
| thu187 wrote on Wed, 03 August 2005 14:53 |
Meh, what can you do?
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I just feel the only thing that we can do as individual persons, is getting more and more people's attention, get them to understand the real situation, so they realise that the government and RTA aren't actually helping us, but are instead sucking our blood slowly... Then as more people are educated, we can start flooding the politicians with letters, and demand real road safety, and before we get our true road safety, we have to keep our stand, defend our rights and fight ANY "speeding" tickets that we are issued, to show the politicians that we VALUE our rights, and make them WORK HARD for the money, just as how we work blood and sweat for our hard earned cash!
I think the hardest thing is actually getting people to disconnect from the main media and news, people that runs the news and current affairs are controlled by the richest, and have a huge conflict of interest with normal everyday citizens, and most news and advertisings are fed to us only because of the big money to be made behind the scenes if u know what I mean...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 04 August 2005 06:38
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| ke382TG wrote on Wed, 03 August 2005 15:07 |
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very good point ke382TG, but does that mean no one is doing anything to protect their rights and hard earned cash and we've gotten no where in that 2-3 years time??
talk about old news, look at this old news article, in 2003 they're already making avg $134 million per year!!! And that's just the state of Victoria alone! Wonder how much they make today! With all the newer speed cameras and enforcements, when will everyone start waking up and get together to do something???
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 03:43
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the tas government has reduced just about every speed limit by 10kp/h... except urban which is already 50!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 03:54
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Speed Kills Speed Kills, why don't they just cap the national speed limit at 30km/h and have urban speed limit at 15-20km/h? Then the road toll may finally starts dropping...
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 04:02
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very good point ke382TG, but does that mean no one is doing anything to protect their rights and hard earned cash and we've gotten no where in that 2-3 years time??
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I was just being a slack prick with that timeline (I had an urge to use it  ), you have raised an interesting point though.
I guess my apathy stems from the fact I have never been fined (touch wood).
Perhaps my car is too slow to break any laws 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 04:17
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| ke382TG wrote on Fri, 05 August 2005 14:02 |
I was just being a slack prick with that timeline (I had an urge to use it ), you have raised an interesting point though.
I guess my apathy stems from the fact I have never been fined (touch wood).
Perhaps my car is too slow to break any laws
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not trying to say bad things, but someday, someone will get caught, I remember reading somewhere a couple of days ago, saying that on average 1.35 per 1 driver (out of all those that has a license) have got a speeding infringement or something, I am bound to hear anyone that have drove more than 10 years and never got a speeding ticket, I mean face it, how many times have you accidently or delibrately float over the limit? Was it really that dangerous? What if you were caught 3-10km/h over the limit?
I guess someday people will wake up, but not until the government's pocketed billions and billions of dollars worth of infringements... (avg $150-200 million revenue per year in the state of VIC alone!)
But the odds of people waking up is even slimer, since the new generations 17-22 yos and the old generations 50+ yos have already been brainwashed with this Speed Kills things, and these are actually the only people that can afford time on their hands campaigning something...
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 04:21
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My mums been driving for 25-30 years and has never had a fine.
My dad has been driving for 34 years and has had one speeding fine that he fought successfully in court, over took a caravan going up a hill that we'd been stuck behind for half an hour, got to the top of the hill still exceeding the speed limit slightly speed and got booked. That happened around ten years ago now.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 04:24
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I am bound to hear anyone that have drove more than 10 years and never got a speeding ticket
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I have been driving for longer than that and have never had a fine of any sort  I guess I am just lucky All my cars have been modified too
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 04:32
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The figures stated were an average, so therefore seeing as noone out there seems to have got a fine  , there must be a small minority of drivers out there that have a heap of fines to their name, therefore it is always the same drivers being fined therefore they are not learning, therefore it doesnt work
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 04:33
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hehe why do you think my uncle left NSW
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 04:34
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hehe why do you think my uncle left NSW
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because he was identified as a paedophile?
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 04:36
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no thats another story for another day and a different uncle
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 09:07
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Yep I've had my license for more then 10 years and never had a speeding ticket.
I can't say I tend to "accidentally" speed though, usually I'm well aware of what is going on.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 09:39
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I can't say I tend to "accidentally" speed though, usually I'm well aware of what is going on.
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Ditto, I would say that I am aware and attentive and if I do get caught I don't think I will be unaware of the fact.
Most people who get caught are either vague/inattentative or are speeding with complete disregard.
It's the vague and inattentive khunts that are the ones that worry me  regardless of what speed those phuckers are doing they are a danger.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 14:01
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don't you think when you're behind the wheel, there are so many more things that are so much more important than the "speed" you're doing? for eg... Your own vehicle positioning (how close you drive to the vehicles front, back and side lanes). What do you do before and during the passing of any vehicles, how fast you pass other vehicles. Getting information of all your surrounding vehicles (speed of vehicles front, back and side) Knowing any moving objects in view (vehicles backing out of driveway, coming out from left and right side streets, any vehicles where their lane is ending soon. Any pedestrians near the edge of the footpath or in the middle of the road). Combine this with the "body language" of hinting other drivers when you are about to exit driveways and side streets, how to change lanes etc. etc. The correct timing + EXTRA MARGIN when exiting sidestreets, coming out of driveways and changing lanes so as not to cause other people's sudden braking or disruption of traffic. Better control of vehicles as to make exiting driveways, changing lanes, and cornering quickly, swiftly and smoothly. Combine all these skills together, with better traffic flow management, clearer signs and traffic lights etc. etc. Then it wouldn't matter how fast you are actually travelling in a free flowing traffic (dictated by the condition of the road of coz) as long as no one driving way too fast or too slow compared to the surrounding traffic, would it? Would it matter how fast you're travelling if the road was straight, and you *know* no car is going to bolt out the side street, you *know* no car is going to turn right in front of your path, and you *know* no pedestrian is going to jump out, then does it matter how fast you're travelling? 60? 70? 80km/h? So does speed really kills? Or is it the ignorance of the general public? Or is it the greed of the government that kills?
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Fri, 05 August 2005 15:25
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Driving is easy, when your taught. and it doesnt take much more than a pulse to be aware of whats going on around you, this is why you have all those mirrors and instruments for your convenience.
i sometimes lose track of my speed in out VT Commo, simply because the car is big and you dont feel the speed increase, and also because theres no window howling or anything rattling/squeaking.
Everybody's capable of speeding, and everybody's capable of watching their speed , it takes a glance every 10-20 secs to see how your doing and to correct it.
the majority of people getting fines are in a rush, day dreaming, or showing off.
Eldar.O.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Sat, 06 August 2005 03:31
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yeah but u can creep over in that time and get booked by cuntsable plod 
and dont say u never creep over unless u drive with cruise control on and ur foot just hovering over the brake so u can brake up hill aswell
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Sat, 06 August 2005 11:41
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I can't say I tend to "accidentally" speed though, usually I'm well aware of what is going on.
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Joshstix: The way you said "usually" means that you couldn't 100% sure, and you know everyone makes mistakes.
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Most people who get caught are either vague/inattentative or are speeding with complete disregard.
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ke382TG: Shows you're not sure enough to say "All people", but then, who is always 100% attentive when they're behind the wheel? Especially driving 60km/h in a straight and deserted road alone.
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Driving is easy, when your taught.
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EldarO: What do you classified as "taught"? What should you be taught? The points I've mentioned just before your previous post, how many of those are properly taught and followed? Why aren't the government "teaching" drivers properly? And instead, tighten "Speeding" enforcement??
btw. you guys mentioned a few examples of people that haven't received a speeding infringement in the last 10 years, I seriously wonder what's the percentage of drivers with "clean record", of course counting only those that drive regularly (to and from work and delivery drivers etc.) And excluding those mums that only occasionally drive to do their town centre shoppings... Because I believe, anyone that regularly drives, will get stun sooner or later, because of inattentive or honest mistakes, don't know how true it is though...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 03:25
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speed kills.....human rights and freedom
if anything the active punish rather than rehabilitate and educate scheme is hurtign society more than ti is protecting it
by memory there was a 3% drop in fatalities and serious accidents for the whole tiem that weve been heavily policed for any infringment
hapf the problem witht he younger drivers is that theyre taught hwo to pass a test NOT how to drive
if they were taught how to drive they would be on skid pans and by tiem they had their black licenses would isntantly pass a basic cams level licensing
i honestly believe that sould be the bare minimum to qualify for a full license
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 03:59
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I think we were fairly close to realising that the government doesn't really care after all, so unless we get a huge group to push the government out of ridiculous speed enforcement, and push them to educate the public, we're not going to win and nothing's going to happen in our favour, and we'll keep getting more speed infringements issued and more people will die on the road
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 04:06
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| 4DaDrift wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 13:25 |
half the problem witht he younger drivers is that theyre taught hwo to pass a test NOT how to drive
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I agree entirely.
| 4DaDrift wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 13:25 |
if they were taught how to drive they would be on skid pans and by tiem they had their black licenses would isntantly pass a basic cams level licensing
i honestly believe that sould be the bare minimum to qualify for a full license
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Not to mention have a rocking good time too! I think proper driver training is a must as well.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 04:12
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An advanced/defensive driver training course should be a must say to get your greens i reckon. One they are fun even the basic ones like the one i did at eastern creek. They also allow you to experience something in a safe environment that you never will on the road until it comes the time to save your life/avoid or lessen the impact of an accident.
The instructors at eastern creek were great taking the piss all day at the rice boys in their BMW it was relaxed, i learnt a lot and came away from the day with a more mature approach to driving.
Its also good if you wanna look at cars in terms of future purchases you learn what is good and bad in terms of the brakes department. I wouldn't get a Ford Ka if someone gave it too me
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 04:46
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You know a few states in america actualy point to the road tolls in victoria when we got speed camereas to justify their own speed camera introductions.
You know why?
'cuz Victoria is the only place in the WORLD where road fatalities and accidents went DOWN the year they introduced camreas. I looked at the graph on that transit website thingy. It sure did go down, but only a touch more than the AVERAGE decrease in road accidents. It then leveled off the next year (ie, stopped going down), then continued it's downward trend, only with much less decrease from year to year.
You put speeds to high, people die. Put them to low, people die.
A lot of professionals in the area of road fatalities will tell you, what speed people are doing isn't as important as them all doing the SAME speed.
A high percentage (can't remember exactly, but more than half) of road fatalities happen in rural areas. This has been helped by putting propper signage, and fixing roads up. Yet it's the inner city roads that have the limits dropped, and have speed cameras put on them.
I'm all for cops pulling people over for speeding, but it should be more about people doing dangerously high speeds in traffic... or driving commodores at high speed.
I agree with previous statements. People should have propper training in driving. I think everyone should learn to drive a manual too (there are some things I notice auto drivers do that scare the hell outta me). Auto only drivers tend (and I say tend, 'cuz there are exeptions) to act like their car is a big comfy couch that will get them to where they are going, rather than a big, heavy, heighly sophisticated peice of machinery that is capable of killing you, your friends, or innocent bystanders.
anyway, back to work for me.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 04:48
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You wanna something else amusing the yaks recently increased the speed limits on many highways and actually saw a drop in fatalities, somewhere round the 130kmph mark now.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 05:50
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| Shraka wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 14:46 |
...
A lot of professionals in the area of road fatalities ...
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and does it suprise there are onyl three professionals in the country that specialise in human psychology on roads and tehy are all in teh abck pocket of either/and/or state federal or government sponsered action groups
while the gov't listens to professors that are chauffered around or flown whereever they need to go we are screwed
plain and simple really
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 05:56
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virtualyl all research internationally shows that by lowerign speed limits and enforcing these limit with a prosecution style over an education style will result in a higher rate in fatalities and seriosu injuries
this is a topic close to me as it was and azn who coudlnt speak english and had only been in teh country about 6 months who almost killed my sister and myself
i dont hold prededuce against the azn community for their actiosn eyt in this case they were allowed a license when they couldnt speak english and i doubt they had the skills to understand basic english
also i doubt in their home land they had vehicles available to them under their income beyond that of a scooter which is a LOT less powerful thatn what =we have available
until the authorities take their heads out fo the sand and take a practical reasonable approach ill always will be critical of them and anyone else that even aprtially supports them
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 06:27
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Education would go a long way 4DAdrift but that costs money and doesn't generate money .
I have been hit 3 times by a car, once due to an innattentive driver, once by a drunk driver and once as you similarly had a Chinese chap who just landed in Aus and was being taught to drive by his daughter.
The inattentive driver put me in hospital, he was fined for numerous offences, the drunk guy didn't put me in hospital so we "sorted it/him out"  at the time and the Chinese dude I made get in the passenger seat and have his daughter drive as he was about 110 years old and had no idea.
Of the above 3 instances only the one with the inattentive driver involved speed. He was just a dumb kunt and I don't think education would have helped. The drunk dude was not speeding but was clearly breaking another law (he even had a beer in his hand when he hit me ). The Chinese dude was welllll under the speed limit but lacked any sort of skill in a vehicle and definitely would have benefited from some proper education.
Education would no doubt help on a whole but dumb phucks are everywhere and can not be educated, hence they are usually the ones involved in or causing accidents.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 06:44
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ke38
good point abotu ti not raisignre venue yet whers all the revenue raised going now ?
the revnue woudl be a mute point due to the savign to society in the long term fi they did their job properly int he first place
btw the dumb phucks wouldnt be abel to obtain a license onless they adjusted their ways
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Speed Traps: Saving Lives or Raising Revenue?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 07:23
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Problem is, no matter how many tests you put into place, people will still only learn enough to pass the test in a lot of cases, and then forget it all 30 second after they get their licence to kill... err... I mean drive.
I think you should HAVE to learn in a manual.
Automatic cars should be reserved for fleet cars, and people who obtain a special permit (disabled, or people who have to take long trips). In combination with this, the public transit system should be improved with more trains, more train lines, more busses and generaly better service. Also, subsidised taxies for short trips would be good too. Wave the booking fee if you are being picked up from a train station, and anything under say 10kms is 10% off (making it cheaper to get home from a station). The amount of people who would say "I can't be bothered driving a manual! I'll catch public transport." would be great.
I think limiting the power of cars for younger drivers is a good idea too, aswell as curfews. HOWEVER, I think they should be done differently to the way it's being done now.
15+ Road rule test:
Eligable for L plates - No autos.
17+ After 1 year on Ls - Road rule, driving ettiquet, half hour driving test and 30 min parking test:
Eligable for Red Ps. Driver may have no more than 1 passenger and not be on the roads passed between 9am and 4pm unless acompanied by a full licenced driver (in front passenger seat). Power restrictions apply (no V8 commos for starters!) - No autos
18+ After 1 year on red Ps - defensive driver course (practical) & responsible driving course (theory):
Eligable for Green Ps. 6 points, BAC of 0.0
21+ After min 2 years on red Ps - half hour driving test: Eligable for full licence. No restrictions.
That's a good start. I also think it'd be a good idea to take a driving test every 5-10 years. This would contain a rensponsible driving seminar and test, and a practical test.
I also don't think the test should be able to be taken in any language but english. The road signs are ALL IN ENGLISH! How do you expect someone who can't even take a test in english to be able to get around properly?! I'm not against having people migrate here, but LEARN THE LANGUAGE! If I was going to live in your country, I'd do the same for you!
Ofcourse, nobody has any money for this 'cuz we're too busy bowing to the demands of our credit rating with the world bank!
If only everyone would take it upon THEMSELVES to learn to drive... *sigh*
Anyway, that's my rant... again.
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