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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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water injection...the truth?
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Fri, 19 August 2005 16:55
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hey all looking at setting up WI on my 165 in the not too distant future...just wanna get some stuff straight first...i know it dramatically reduces intake temps and cylinder temps...adding to engine life..ect....BUT...what im wondering about is ive heard some people claiming 40hp gains from WI without any changes to timing...ect...is this pure bullshit or is there actually merit behind it...i mean i can see the probability of highly increased numbers with methanol + advancing the timing and such.....but apart from slightly higher compression due to a small ammount of water being in the cylinder..and the obvious lower temperatures, how can it really achieve the sort of claimed numbers without tuning?
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Fri, 19 August 2005 21:12
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they claim it against a non incooled setup!water injection is a poormans intercooler.ive yet to see it used to any extent on proper race cars!get a good intercooler.
mick
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Location:
Darwin
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Fri, 19 August 2005 22:25
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I don't Know I've Heard That Not only does It cool Better than an Intercooler But that when Used can Promote Cleaner Burn and You are able to run More advance and Leaner Fuels than Just the Cooling effect would Allow. However Be Very Carefull as The effects of a failing system Is Disasterous. Ref Hot Fours Magazine.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Fri, 19 August 2005 22:49
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i would hope i new a bit more than hot4's.but then again i never new chrome mags gave cars such a power increase!lmao
mick
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Fri, 19 August 2005 23:28
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vin - capitalising all the first letter like that makes your post REALLY annoying to read.
skip the water injection and go straight for alcohol injection 
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On Probation
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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Location:
Burnie, Tasmania
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 01:50
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You can also run higher compresion on an atmo car with water/methanol injection so that kind of gain is possible, but the car needs to be setup for it.
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 02:14
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youll notice some good gains after a few weeks of using it after yovue blown out all the carbon in ya combustion chambers heh 
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 03:36
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| Enchanter wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 11:50 |
You can also run higher compresion on an atmo car with water/methanol injection so that kind of gain is possible, but the car needs to be setup for it.
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it always seems to go on dosnt it!maybe this can end it so when people do a search it will come up! we run 12.5-1 on 6 litre atmo chevs on pump gas that cost $80K + to build and spend ours on engine dyno getting every last ounce we can out of the engines. ours has 580fp of torque from 3800 revs and 750hp in circuit racing trim,some have more some have less.ever seen water injection on a nascar?on a V8 supercar?sportsedan? etc etc etc no,they would have tried it but it has gone the way of the DODO.i sure wouldnt say it works if i didnt know,cause i dont want to think that some guy has forked out money to put something on his car that isnt going to do much of anything at all,in an atmo engine or a properly cooled turbo motor.
mick
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Registered:
July 2005
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On Probation
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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On Probation
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:32
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the only reason a wrc would use it is to get rid of heat soak because they have a set rule on intercooling and they race flat out for along time!how many cars on the street do you know that run flat out all the time!the only trouble with the web is you get people that read something or there mate says it and it goes around like a ping pong ball for years.what race cars use it?lap dashers? god my heads sore from hitting the desl!lmao
mick
p.s and anyone that compares there street car to a fully setup endurance race car is having a lend of themselves.ive done some quick times up the highway from sydney to brissy but i hardly compare it to bathurst race!
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:38
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ANY FORM of intake charge cooling is a benifit, it doesnt matte rif you drive like a mum or a driftking.
cooler air = more power.
water injection has other added benifits also though.
wrc run in sprints.
i dont see how you could hate bash it dead.
for those who would be trying, and want to do it cheap, get an old cold start injector, a brass ball valve (to set pressure), an old fuel pump, and a switch/relay. cheap and works. and if you dont like running out of windscreen washer fluid, just take the injector out and put some duct tape over the hole
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On Probation
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:42
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Your right we are not talking about track cars. But you cant say they dont use it, they do and some teams swear by it. Never the less, many gains are made by using water injection, on and off the street.
If you are tuning a car it never hurts to have water injection. Run more timming, more boost without pinging and excess heat. Also your engine internals remain very clean.
Any car using water injection is safer in the long run providing you have a high quality system that cant fail on you.
I first used WI on my GT4 a year ago and had an excellent experience with it and am happy to share it with others.
Thanks.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:42
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| ralfross wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:15 |
oh and here is a link on Rally cars using WI. Search Google and you will find hundreds of race/track cars using water injection.
It works or they would never of invented it to cool and protect engines for more than 60years. The Spitfires in WWII with the SC V8 relied on water injection. Today the Water Injection technology is better than ever. Heaps of Drag cars internationally, that cost 100,000buck also use water injection. SO it has definatly not gone the way of the DODO.
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/WaterInjection.html
V8s do benefit a great deal using WI.
Petrol and Deisel.
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see this is a prime example of a little knowledge is dangerous!let me guess!the drag cars that use it have a 6/71 bolted on top?funny that no cooler!the spitfire was a weapon in its day but that was 1940 it is now 2005,we have been on the moon now!and the heaps of race cars you a referring to wouldnt happen to be endurance racecars would they!most of the stuff,not all, but most is old hat.takes years for most things to trickle down.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:48
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I plan on putting water injection on my car with the Autronic SM4 configured to use it as knock protection.
I agree there is no point to running it all the time but there it can be a great benefit in it protecting your engine if it starts knocking.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:49
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not hate bashing just pointing out,get an intercooler that will work!they are cheap as now days.lets just hope you dont hydroic your engine with a fualty setup that lets water dribble in while the car sits overnight etc!
mick
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On Probation
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:53
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quote title=kingmick wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:42]| ralfross wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:15 |
oh and here is a link on Rally cars using WI. Search Google and you will find hundreds of race/track cars using water injection.
It works or they would never of invented it to cool and protect
see this is a prime example of a little knowledge is dangerous!let me guess!the drag cars that use it have a 6/71 bolted on top?funny that no cooler!the spitfire was a weapon in its day but that was 1940 it is now 2005,we have been on the moon now!and the heaps of race cars you a referring to wouldnt happen to be endurance racecars would they!most of the stuff,not all, but most is old hat.takes years for most things to trickle down.
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Whatever then mate, dont use Water Injection then, I really dont care, in the end it is your loss as it does have something to offer and thats obvious to most but you.
I dont want to argue anymore but water injection was used on the Rocket engines that got man to the moon. The Rocket engines use several turbos to supply the massive amounts of air required at takeoff. The Water Injection was used to cool the charged air as an intercooler was not practical. This information appears in the google search too.
I really dont want to argue anymore about this. you think what you want. We are both entittled to our opinion, i'll respect yours.
Cheers.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:55
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| Toobs wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:48 |
I plan on putting water injection on my car with the Autronic SM4 configured to use it as knock protection.
I agree there is no point to running it all the time but there it can be a great benefit in it protecting your engine if it starts knocking.
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mate why would you drive in ping condition,wouldnt you let it cool down. or do you have major sponsors to keep happy on the way to the shops!lmao
mick
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Registered:
July 2005
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:58
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| kingmick wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:25 |
| Toobs wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:48 |
I plan on putting water injection on my car with the Autronic SM4 configured to use it as knock protection.
I agree there is no point to running it all the time but there it can be a great benefit in it protecting your engine if it starts knocking.
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mate why would you drive in ping condition,wouldnt you let it cool down. or do you have major sponsors to keep happy on the way to the shops!lmao
mick
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my car knocks under 2000rpm and i still drive it
its not bad though, the ecu reards itself good enougn most of hte time, but going up hill in 4th it comes back every now and then.
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On Probation
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 05:05
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| kingmick wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:55 |
| Toobs wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:48 |
I plan on putting water injection on my car with the Autronic SM4 configured to use it as knock protection.
I agree there is no point to running it all the time but there it can be a great benefit in it protecting your engine if it starts knocking.
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mate why would you drive in ping condition,wouldnt you let it cool down. or do you have major sponsors to keep happy on the way to the shops!lmao
mick
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Can you react as fast as an ECU and solenoid mick?
The time it would take the average person to react to full boost knock would be enough to do significant damage, I would rather be safe than sorry.
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 05:20
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I would agree intercooler is a better solution due to its low maintained and its simplicity, but water/alcohol injection is great where you can't fit a cooler as stated. I am in process of installing water injection on my SB Chev as with the 177ci roots blower to run more then 10psi I need either 110 octane, static comp of 7:5 or some octane booster and water injection...with a better 8:1 comp...In my case yes it would be worth at least 20hp as I can advance my ignition from 32 degrees total to 36 degrees at 12psi, without water injection I can run maximum 10psi with that advance, at thats edging on detonation even with octane booster..
Just my 2c
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On Probation
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 05:26
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Both Water Injection and an Intercooler is the ultimate cooling solution.
Your 8cyl sounds like its going to be a beast.
Goodluck with it.
Cheers.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 05:41
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| terra wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 14:56 |
intercoolers suck compared to waterinjection. why would you get any dribble? the pump isnt working.
you were hate bashin git now you say its ok just get it done right? 
tim eto close this thread moterators 
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no didnt say get it done it all!i said if you wanted to.no im not fond of it cause its a band aid solution.
mick
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 05:45
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water isnt a band aid solution -- water is an addition.
you can run more timing advance (etc etc) with it that you couldnt with a big FMIC+water spray.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 05:55
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lol ok next summernats the turbo and supercharged cars that i do i should put in the comps ill put water injection on. should give me alot more than the 900hp at the wheels from the 355 strocker and if we were allowed to take the turbo motor to 11500rpm again on 40 pounds it would make well over the 1100hp from 2.3litre it can make?
mick
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 07:16
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i spam car foums 3 hours a day for a living
like i said, water injection is an addition, and it all depends on application.
and youre right, maybe you should make better sense of what you type b4 you hit the post button.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: water injection...the truth?
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Sat, 20 August 2005 07:38
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This thread is stupid.
I have seen more than enough arguments and deceptive advertising threads about water injection in the past month to last me a lifetime.....
This argument is both repetitive and redundant.
LOCKED
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