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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 00:39
 
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| SUPRAGTE wrote on Thu, 30 January 2003 18:43 |
TT 2JZ's seriusly arn't that quick. It's like WRX's, everyone thinks they are some sort of machine.
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You're right, any car which will do a 13 second quarter with just an exhaust is SLOW!
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Strap a sinlge onto the 2jz and you will begin to make a bit of power but nothing major without other decent mods.
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So if the 2JZ is such a poor engine, what do you consider a good engine? Let me guess... a 7M!
LMAO 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 01:17
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| Norbie wrote on Fri, 31 January 2003 11:39 |
So if the 2JZ is such a poor engine, what do you consider a good engine? Let me guess... a 7M!
LMAO
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Ahem, nothing wrong with the 7M........  
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 01:28
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Nope, but if we're comparing a 7M to a 2JZ, I know what I'd choose! 
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 01:49
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Thu, 30 January 2003 20:10 |
its not a drag car nor a race car. so laptop and all that stuff wont be neccessary. only thing ill be racing is shit like silvias and other jap crap (not toyotas  ) that wants to boogie.
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Boogie with my Zed up Mt Nebo
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 04:06
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GT,
Why did you choose a 2JZGE over a 7MGE then?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 07:01
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hey norbie is right about 2jz r good...7m r crap sorry but its true...from personal experience the things are hopeless. Spun big ends..blown head gaskets, you name the problem they had it...i know...same with a 5me also. Ive had both. but anyway opena new forum if u wanna speak about that... no worries ill drag you...next year tho
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 07:20
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Hey Robbo,
what gear box do you intend on using??
C4? FMX? AOD?
As for the manifolds Funnel Web make one...
$680 is their RRP for a 2V Clevor manifold.
They are in Maryborough.
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 13:03
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Fri, 31 January 2003 18:01 |
7m r crap sorry but its true...from personal experience the things are hopeless.
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and youre putting a 302 in......errr ok dude, whatever
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 21:17
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4" pistons are just standard.
if you want big pistons get a big block.
You will need to know how much your block has been bored, if any.
For odering oversizes.
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 02:30
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$30 says i can beat robbos 302 in my mums Rav. 
just kidding.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 04:09
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mate my 5me would probably beat ur fucken rav4...but hey i also have a vp commodore...wanna see how bad it kicks ur ass?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 04:10
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nah im leaving the pistons standard size...i was just commenting how big they r ....havent decided if ill bore the block yet...see what pistons are available...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 04:45
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Chances are the block has been bored already, or it will need it.
Have it checked when you are getting your crank and rods done.
Bores are typically in .020" steps.
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 05:14
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And he has owned the block for the last 34 years??
It will probably need a hone if nothing else.
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 05:24
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god knows who had it before him...it was in an xy ute that he dismantled ...what does honed mean?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 05:58
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Robbo,
Depending on the work your block has done and it's age, I'd definately get it bored and honed. I've seen too many motors "slapped together", with a tapered bore (all engines wear one end of the bore out quicker than the other), with the assembler thinking they can get away with just a hone, only to find they have a massive oil pump sitting in their engine bay twelve months later (ie, the engine can't effectively scrap the oil off the bore walls).
Boring actually involves cutting into the wall of the cylinder to remove typically 18 - 28", this process is always followed by honing which removes another couple of thou, while cleaning up the surface. This gives you the over bore size of 20 - 30". To bore and hone a V8 will be around $200, but is money well spent, you will also have to buy oversize pistons, as you will have a greater capacity (30" in a V8 is around another 5 cubic inches of capacity).
You may also have a "Mexican Block" windsor, these typically have more meat around the bores and are preferable over the earlier model blocks. Most late model blocks are cast along those lines too, so check it out before you send it in.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 06:14
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thanks for that clint. yeah im rebuilding everything. Heads r done ready for unleaded, getting new pistons and everything...im taking no shortcuts.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 06:30
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Hey Robbo,
If the motor came out of an XY ute, then you will find it is a cleveland. The windsors were put into the early XR ?-XW and some of the later model XW's had celvo's!
Whats the engine number?
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 06:52
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ill tell you when the block arrives. I havent seen the block, my dad has. i have the heads which are def clevo. The block is def windsor ...perhaps i was wrong saying xy....
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 10:16
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anyone heard of kilkenny manifolds? Are they any good?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 10:38
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Anyone know wat a good manifold is...is redline as good as kilkenny?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 10:44
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Edelbrock and Yella terra are two companies that come to mind - though it will greatly depend on if you are using EFI or carby induction according to the RTA regualtions up there
Weber ( redline ) make a good efi throttle body set that you culd possibly use ..?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 10:48
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Sat, 01 February 2003 17:14 |
Heads r done ready for unleaded
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pity youre still going to have to run it on gas
ed
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 13:10
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for the last time it aint gonna be run on gas...edelbrock dont make one to suit a boss 302...redline and kilkenny are the only ones i found so far...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 13:17
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So you are going EFI then?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 13:23
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4 barrel carby on unleaded fuel. no more questions on what fuel system im using
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 13:32
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Dude, no ones bagging you on your choice of fuel system, people are just telling you points on the way it is. Sure, you could run it on unleaded, with a carby, there isn't a problem with that. The thing is, getting it going, not being able to enjoy it because its not legal is more of the problem...
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 00:01
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 00:10 |
for the last time it aint gonna be run on gas
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your funeral
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 05:18
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| Quote: |
Robbo: Heads r done ready for unleaded
Ed: pity youre still going to have to run it on gas
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Umm, FYI Ed heads need to be modified for gas in exactly the same way they need to for unleaded!
ie. hardened exhaust seats.
Harder valves are nice too, but not needed.
Robbo, what did you find out about that funnel web manifold??
And have you spoken to an engineer about emissions??
CamZH
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 07:06
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| Quote: |
So if the 2JZ is such a poor engine, what do you consider a good engine? Let me guess... a 7M!
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Norbie, I didn't say they were a poor engine. You said those words.
I said | Quote: |
TT 2JZ's seriusly arn't that quick. Strap a single onto the 2jz and you will begin to make a bit of power but nothing major without other decent mods.
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Technically the 2jz's are a superior and more robust engine but I personally don't consider 13 seconds a quick car.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 07:40
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cam i havent had time to ring about that funnel web one...by the time im home at 5.20 est...6.20 down there i cant contact them to find out about it...so i havemt found out yet...ok turbokid...show me your amateur skills in a couple of weeks. vp and vr commodores are the quickest to date...im more than willing to demonstrate...norbie and gte give the engine a debate a rest...ill chip in here...2jz are A lot better. and have a lot more potential with minor mods. No worry about fucken blown head gaskets and other 7m problems that came stock with the car.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 08:45
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robbo, just out of curiosity, how many 2JZs and 7Ms have you worked with? You seem to know a lot about these motors, yet you are putting in a 302?
And to make things clear, personally, I don't care what robbo puts in his car. He can put a flux capacitor in his car I'd love a taxi ride to the 60s myself I reckon the Supra will be heaps cooler than the DeLorean anyways!
My questions are regarding the comments he made about 7Ms and 2JZs. Some of the people who voice their opinions about 7Ms or 2JZs have experience with one or the other or some of the more knowledgable people among us have experience with both. Therefore some their comments are quite justified and enlightning. What is not good for the community as a whole is the people who keep on parrotting "he says, she says" bullshit, without any knowledge at all about the subject matter.
7Ms are excellent motors from what I have seen, both running and taken apart. Let's face it, 2JZ is an evolutionary step from Toyota and is the successor to the 7M, continuing and developing the Toyota engineering excellence further. 2JZ is an awesome motor and it's very easy to get awesome power out of them even with stock internals. Again having seen many running with awesome power figures with moderate mods and after having looked at the internals of both TT and NA versions.
As for making decisions on which way to go, 7M or 1/2JZ depends on your personal preference, mostly the cost effectiveness and future projections.
Cheers
[Updated on: Mon, 03 February 2003 09:21]
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 08:59
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when is everyone going to realise this is robbos car and he is going to do to it whatever he wants regardless of your opinions, when and/or if he runs into any problems im sure he will worry about them then if he hasnt already thought of a plan, give the guy some credit, qld laws are different to nsw laws anyway
re: the vp commodore if you are talking about the v6 my STOCK 22re powered ra65 coupe used to eat them for breakfast on the way to work if you dont believe me i will prove it anytime
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 09:26
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When are you going to realise this is a DISCUSSION forum? If Robbo doesn't want opinions, I'm afraid he's in the wrong place! I'm not going to stop him from installing a 302 if that's what he wants, and neither is anyone else, but I reserve my right to give my opinion.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 10:37
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| Rala wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 16:18 |
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Robbo: Heads r done ready for unleaded
Ed: pity youre still going to have to run it on gas
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Umm, FYI Ed heads need to be modified for gas in exactly the same way they need to for unleaded!
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yeah i know the heads are prepped basically the same (unleaded vs lpg) but my point was the robbo_ma61 is planning on running a carbied unleaded 302 non-the-less...
and thats just dumb...
****heelllloooo**** is anyone listning here ???
jeeezzzeee
ed
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 12:25
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I just thought I'd bring this to yer attention.
Let's say you are running a carbied V8, due to fuel inconsistencies in any carby system with near zero management, I can guarantee you will decompose more catalytic convertors than a vat of acid.
Catalytic convertors get dissolved by unburnt fuel in the exhaust, this is why we have EGO, EGR and a gazillion other allegedly "redundant" bits hanging off our unleaded engines nowadays. The ECU regulates the spark and fuel delivery so there is bugger all unburnt fuel left in the exhaust so it doesn't kill the cat. Even if you do get past your first emissions test, after 5000 kays I can guarantee you won't get anywhere near close to legal emissions, and if you want to fork out $400 or so to replace your cats every 5000 kays be my guest...
On top of that, please, and I mean "please" (in a quaint non-confrontational way) don't tell us how much horsepower you are *going* to get, or how much horsepower some other dudes "similar" engine has. It's not constructive in anyway and only creates un-needed debate.
Now to add fuel to the fire of that debate, just so that you know where I stand on all of this.
Comparing a racing engine and a street-able engine is ***chalk-and-cheese***. They might have the same bore and stroke, and "similar" ports, but they are very different in more ways than u'd imagine. For starters, you think a racing engine has a catalytic convertor strapped to it? Do you know how much hp these things can knock off of a big capacity engine - up to 40 hp - if not more. And on top of that, the carbies are totally different tuned, the cams are set up for only high end performance, and on top of that - to deal with all this, their diffs are locked up tighter than a CPA's ass, and their gearboxes take more steroids than chinese swimmers.
Sure they might get 400+hp - but that's at far more revs than a normal street engine ever runs at, and it's at a sacrifice to low end torque/power curve.
I'm not going to say how I personally feel about putting a ford into a toyota, but whatever floats your boat
On top of that. I'm not a moderator, and no one is being forced to listen about what I think a board should be conducted like, but don't dis other engines...sure there are pieces of shit engines out there, but just because you had/worked on one that blew to smithereens doesn't mean every engine is like that.
I've had my 3S-GE run fine for 30,000+ kays with worn rings and oil blowing out of the exhaust and leaking from the cam cover - (this is due to the previous owner being a dickwad), and all I did was top the oil up every now and then (until I got sick of having less guts from blowing oil instead of exhaust gases and I had the cash to fix the engine) and the worst damage was extremely minor scuffing on the number 2 piston. The bores were still very visibly cross-hatch patterned, not overly worn, and the lip on the bores was tolerable. The crank was fine, but due to the fact the engine had 200,000+ kays on it, the bigend bearings were worn to shit.
So there are people with stories of engines holding together good despite poor treatment on my and the previous owners part, and there are people who have stories of engines blowing up left right and centre.
And on top of that, don't expect people at a TOYOTA mods forum to treat you like a hero if you say a Toyota 7M-GTE is a hunk of unreliable garbage...
Sorry, I'm getting way off track. Happy engine converting!
[Updated on: Mon, 03 February 2003 12:41]
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 12:33
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 21:53 |
im but there seem to be a lot of know it alls
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I've read many times people suggesting you talk to a engineer before getting too ecited yet you still havent done this.. sigh... and then you call the people who are doubting the legality of a carby v8 in a supra.. sigh...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 12:59
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hey smartass for your imformation i have spoken to people including engineers and people i.e mechanics that swap and build hot rods for their life about the engine and conversion. As long as i state its a 69 or before model engine i dont need to be any better than the car was in 69 emissions wise. Sure it seemed i was being biased by saying 7mgtes r not very good in my opinion...but hey on every single toyota supra site it never fails to have a specific article about head gaskets and problems.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 14:29
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WOW, two pages of bitchfest, this is better than Springer! Definately glad I live in Perth, R154's are cheap, out of the ordinary engine swaps are approved on the basis the transport department sees an engineer's report, engineers take those swaps on the proviso they are approved by the transport department (get my point?!!!), and we couldn't organise this amount of people to whinge and moan about our projects in a fit!
Seriously: Who gives a Fuck?! Not my car, I don't care!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 16:25
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hehehe yeah it IS better than springer! i've got no idea what the hell these guys are talking about with these engines but i keep comin back to see what's been happening
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 19:43
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Hey Robbo,
I get the impression this is the 1st 302 you've ever owned!
So dont go around saying that no one know about them, cos it seems more like you dont know about them.
As far as unleaded carbie fed motors go, i drive one every day. my KR40 is a 7K powered van, with a carbie and it was built in 97!
However Robbo, check your emission laws with the RTA (or equiv.) Here is NSW you have to meet the ADR's (emissions) of which ever is the newer item. Ie you will have to meet the emissions for your chassis. And when i (if ever) put a 4A-GE into my KE20 i will have to meet the emissions for the 4A-GE.
Just check it out, you dont want to get knocked back when you've spent thousands of $$$ because someone you listend to was illinformed.
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 23:07
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 22:59 |
hey smartass for your imformation i have spoken to people including engineers and people i.e mechanics that swap and build hot rods for their life about the engine and conversion. As long as i state its a 69 or before model engine i dont need to be any better than the car was in 69 emissions wise.
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Have you spoken to an engineer who is certified by Qld Transport, or just some engineer in general? There's a BIG difference. I should warn you that there is a massive amount of misinformation regarding the legalities of car modifications, even among people who you would expect to be in the know (eg "mechanics that swap and build hot rods for their life"). This is partly because the rules are constantly changing, and they are vastly different now compared to 5 years ago.
I really can't stress this enough: you should talk to a certified engineer ASAP (I can give you a number if you like), because I'm 99% certain you cannot do an engine conversion using an engine that's 15 years older than the car.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 07:44
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thatd would be good...thanks norbie
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 07:48
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shit.. my advice got bashed then when norbie says it(ok maybe a little nicer) it gets accepted..
also you mention about cars that have had it done, note that if the car passed the rules 10 yrs ago when they did the conversion it can still mean there car is legal now but for another car to do the exact same thing it can not be legal...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 09:00
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Bugman is spot on the money there...
We (me and Rala) used to have a '85 4x4 Hilux that someone had put a 253 into, it didnt even need to be engineered! This was due to when the conversion had been done.
However to do the same thing now would be silly, when you can have a 1UZ-FE or a 3.8l Commonwhore V6 for the same hassle and get better performance and economy.
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 09:55
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i dont think you guys are wanting to believe that old motors arent neccessary bad motors, and are incapable of decent power. What are all the drag cars? Most v8s arent they? All older engines being 351s, 350chevs, 427/429. i am yet to see a 1uzfe enter a drag contest. wonder why? Funny i mentioned that in 69 the 302 was putting out as much or more power as a 1996 toyota v8.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 10:48
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sigh...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 10:53
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Umm, no 1UZFE's in drags? Maybe you neglect the twin-turbo 1UZFE, stock as a rock internals in an RA28 over here. Not bad running a 9.2 sec quarter on its shake-down pass. And it only went faster from there.
Wait, how about the 7-second HKS Drag Supra.
Nope, you're right, they're crap, give me a bunch of pushrods and a big carby and she'll be right.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 11:05
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Look at my bloody Avatar!!
you think i have a toyota motor in my Fairlane??
It has a 351 Cleveland!!
I know they are a good motor, but they are a motor of yesterday!
The pollution they put out is 2nd to none! All you need to do it look at the ports on those heads you've got. See how you can stick yor head in them??
They are great for power, but they are also not very effiecient. They dont burn all the fuel they use, this is why the economy suffers so badly...
Also have a look at the rocker gear...
See how the rockers slide on their guide?? How the hell is that a good way of doing things?? Roller rockers are a great way around it, but whats even better is nothing!!
Ie. cams that push straight on valves, there is so much gear in the valve train of a push rod motor its amazing it acually works!!
But when you get it all going, it will be great! They are a great motor. however you will need to look to america for all the best bits for it. In australia the better choice would have been a clevo or a 308.
CamZH
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 11:41
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well i spose you could say its a windsor and cleveland in 1. Its from the boss 302 design...but ive put 302 cl heads on a 302 w block. Im sorry frank...was that a whole 3 cars? How much money has been invested in trying to make the engine go - 10 or 20k? How many problems did they have? Little ponies from the jap v8 engines dont count nearly as much as the draft horses from the aussie and american v8s. actually fuck it i am not gonna argue - who am i kidding - wait a year and ill drag ya ass.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 11:43
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hah your petrol guzzling ozone depleting 6 second passing old clunker v8 supra is gunna own... sigh
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 11:51
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it sure will beat that shitbox in your picture..
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 12:00
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i know about rotaries. they drink more fuel and put out more emissions than the v8s. although with a fair bit of cash you can make em pretty quick.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 302 has arrived!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 12:02
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sigh! I seriously give up!
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Bubb Rubb has a 7M!
