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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Mon, 29 August 2005 12:48
 
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What compression does the 3RZ run standard?
I'd have every confidence in a late model toyota engine running low boost successfully with a safely tuned, good ECU.
Obviously it wont be happy on the regular 91 octane though 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Mon, 29 August 2005 23:33
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What about the possibility of using N2O instead? I would think that a wet system would be the best to use and you can get unichips to tune fuel and ignition.
I don’t know much about N2O but I would expect that you would want to retard timing like you do when a turbo comes on boost because of additional cylinder pressure.
If it is tuned safely, would 100hp N2O shot have the same effect on engine internals as the equivalent amount of boost from a turbo to make an additional 100hp?
A N2O bottle painted black in the back of plumbers truck wouldn’t stand out so much either 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Tue, 30 August 2005 07:02
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anyone?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Tue, 30 August 2005 07:11
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for the price of refilling a bottle of laughing gas and for the price of a turbo conversion, i'd be goin turbo as in the end it would be cheaper......eventually. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Tue, 30 August 2005 07:20
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3RZ's have FAT rods, very chunkly indeed, make 18R's look liek twigs
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Tue, 30 August 2005 11:44
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Have a chat to 2ofdem from PF, he's building a turbo 3RZ monster for his Corona so he'll have some good info for you.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Tue, 30 August 2005 22:46
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Thanks. Didn't know that.
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 03:36
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Fe yota blocks are usually good for around a 50% increase in power, approx, so youd get around a safe 100hp increase, or reletiveley safe ^^
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 03:47
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That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. I can think of a dozen examples of Toyota engines where many multiples of the stock power output is possible without running into problems with the block. The 2JZ with over 1000hp is a good example.
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Location:
sydney,nsw.oz.
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 04:04
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 13:47 |
That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.
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you tell 'em Norbie.
Norbie is 1 of the resident tech gurus !
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 04:05
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External gate is a bit excessive, especially if you are going to run low boost.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 04:18
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Wouldn't you need an external as you need to bypass more exhaust gasses at low boost than high boost.
Terra: I agree with Norbie. I highly doubt that even mega horsepower guys use a different block. They would change internals like pistons, rods etc. but not the block.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 04:34
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Check out this site for an indication of what the 3rzfe block and crank can handle
http://www.world-racing.com/vehicles.htm
There are a number of US drag cars running OEM 3rzfe block and crank, a few are making big power on stock rods too. Toyota tough 
I looked into the 3rzfe turbo, but it's tool tall for my car 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 04:56
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That is interesting re the stock components
I actually stumbled across that site last night. There is obviously a lot of potential there but I don't think he needs 1400hp in a daily driven work ute
He wants to beat my car though. So he was thinking a decent sized turbo. (About the same as mine, mine is rated at 650hp) I wasn't sure if the stock internals would be able to handle about 400hp or so? (flywheel) Standard compression and boost kept around 10psi or less.
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Registered:
July 2005
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 05:20
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| Quote: |
now lets see you name some FE engines with stock bottoms that can safeley do 50%+ power.
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That starlet GT that was at a Toymods dyno day a while back and made about 210fwkw (1.3L turbo  ), they are an FE engine and those things only make less than 80fwkw in standard guise.
Myth busted 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 05:27
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| ke382TG wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 15:20 |
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now lets see you name some FE engines with stock bottoms that can safeley do 50%+ power.
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That starlet GT that was at a Toymods dyno day a while back and made about 210fwkw (1.3L turbo ), they are an FE engine and those things only make less than 80fwkw in standard guise.
Myth busted
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not to mention the 2jzfse, hahahaha if you really wanted to it'd produce nutty power with a turbo.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 05:30
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1GZ-FE anyone? Even though I've never seen one up close, I'll bet money I can get 3 times the quoted factory power output without touching the long block.
Now someone give me one so I can prove my theory.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 05:32
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Now someone give me one so I can prove my theory.
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*reaches into pocket........pulls out tissue and fluff* Sorry I'm out
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 05:47
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god those cars are ugly, why would u want a FWD drag car, especially since the engine is designated RWD, oh well
but 1400hp is mad, think of the torque
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 05:48
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| Mr DOHC wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 15:47 |
god those cars are ugly, why would u want a FWD drag car, especially since the engine is designated RWD, oh well
but 1400hp is mad, think of the torque
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which car are you talking about
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Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 06:05
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ok so ive been answered, like i said, name some im not a guru with toyota engines so its good to know more info now.
so anyone know what the 'S' designation in toyota engines are for? (After the dash, so NOT like 3s-ge)
also thse big output guys are they run dailay at those levels or not? because its different to have dyno numbers and be safe/reliable which is what i said earlier.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 06:34
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S - Direct Injection
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Wed, 31 August 2005 07:08
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Oh okay if you talkin turbo's that big, then external gate for sure (in fact turbo's of that size probably arent available internally gated)
I thought you were aiming more around the GT28 size, which was the main reason why I suggested the external gate would be overkill.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Thu, 01 September 2005 04:23
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Have a look at www.lecengineering.com also
Sean
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Thu, 01 September 2005 08:43
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thats a great site sean 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sacramento, CA (USA)
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Fri, 02 September 2005 03:49
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Just a few tidbits of knowledge from across the pond.
The 3rz-fe stock rods/crank block are great for boost. The ONLY weak point with the lower end is the pistons which tend to melt 1350 degrees F+ - as they are a cast alloy that doesn't take well to too much boost (say 15lbs or more) but up to that they are very very stout motors.
For a one example of how strong and well these motors handle, Luis of Paradise Racing ( www.paradiseracing.com ) Has a turbo 3rz swapped into his AE86 with the only internal part change being low comp pistons, running in the 8's in the quarter.
A good resource to search through and/or ask questions would be www.customtacos.com - a toyota tacoma (hilux) website/club over here. One guy on there Jerry has done 3-4 turbo tacoma/hilux motors to my knowledge. The first one being a 2rz that he daily drove at 15 psi, and didn't blow till he raced a chevrolet camaro ss - and beat it on 23psi, stock block/internals.
If you're willing to pay, a nice turbo manifold which installs with just slight modification of the right side motor mount (bracket must be ground a slight bit for fitment) can be had from www.benzboy.com (about 350 or 400usd last i checked) or for quite a bit more from www.lcengineering.com (6-900 usd from what I can remember)
I would hazard to guess that these motors would safely do just over double the hp. (my motor as well, turbo manifold, turbo and other goodies in the closet for my own 3rz-fte)
If you want a real testament to the strength of the stock block, crank and rods search for info on the NHRA Turbo Celica - it's 1000hp on the STOCK toyota 3rz block, crank and rods. Granted the rods have probably been shot peened, crank polished and motor blue printed (amongst other sponsored race team niceties)... but still a great example of what these motors are capable of.
Andrew
[Updated on: Fri, 02 September 2005 04:01]
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Fri, 02 September 2005 04:06
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Thanks for that info. mate.
I will check those sites out. Sounds like it is a very viable option though with the use of stock internals which is always good.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Fri, 02 September 2005 04:40
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and when u fry the tits out of it, my work has a few sparies for ya
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Location:
Sacramento, CA (USA)
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Fri, 02 September 2005 05:12
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A very viable option - especially low boost (12lbs and under) with proper tuning.
If you wan't a nice easy way to get lower compression without actually fitting new pistons try contacting a south african company called alpine developments [ www.alpine-developments.co.za ]
(www.alpine-developments.us - US website, south african seems to be down with a glitch)
They are the company that developed and sold/licensed the 2rz and 3rz supercharger system to TRD.
Of course TRD took several things away from the kits and made them cheaper/worse.
One difference is the alpine developments there was a low comp supercharger kit for the 3rz that came with a 1mm steel headgasket spacer kit to drop the compression down to 8.25:1 if I remember right.
Luckily enough a member of TTORA (www.tacomaterritory.com) in new york state had purchased one of the original kits, but didn't use install his spacer kit, and I got that from him for my project.
EDIT: found an old email with info on the spacer (i had to ask, kit came with an 11psi pulley)
| Quote: |
Hi Andrew:
The compression will be 8.25:1 with the "spacer plate". We have never found
the need for larger "dowels" in all of our fitments to date. If you have a
problem, you can lift the existing dowels up in the block.
John Conchie
I hope this has answered your questions. If you should have any other
questions or concerns, don't hesitate to contact us again. Thank you for
your continued interest and patience.
Stephen M. Belanger
Sales & Marketing
S.A. Alpine Developments, Inc.
7581 Acacia Avenue
Garden Grove, Ca. 92841
Ph. (714) 379-8066
Fx. (714) 379-8166
sbelanger@alpine-developments.us
www.alpine-developments.co.za
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Andrew
[Updated on: Fri, 02 September 2005 05:15]
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Location:
Sacramento, CA (USA)
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3rz-fe turbo
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Fri, 02 September 2005 05:30
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Also - something I didn't think about until now.
You can purchase a thicker headgasket from cometic (racing gaskets company based in the usa)
A nice (reusable believe it or not) multi layer steel headgasket for the 2r/3rz-fe - which I myself may do instead of using the spacer now that I'm thinking about it. Luis is also running one of these (stock thickness i think) on his turbo 3rz/ae86.
If you want a good deal contact Luis @ paradiseracing.com , I personally have dealt with him for a MLS cometic headgasket and arp headstuds for my 4age when I blew my headgasket.
If you wan't any vouches or info talk to people on www.club4ag.com as he has done lots of business and has a great reputation.
Andrew
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