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Registered:
June 2005
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How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 08:10
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Hey guys, I'm rebuilding a HZ Panelvan. Ive been told to use a supra or celica gearbox as they are pretty strong. I don't know much about these gearboxes and just wanted to know how strong they really are.
I will be attaching it to a 496CI Chev. It will be N/A but may S/C it in the future. N/A is about 550bhp, and S/C will be 800bhp.
Cheers, Errol
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 08:12
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496ci?!?
dude, if you supercharge that it's time to put in a supra 6-speed. big fuck-off getrag box, takes a hell of a punishment (but *not* cheap).
Most people recommend a w58 as a cheap and tough gbox, but you're talking about a bigger motor than most people use 
to give you an idea, I have a 200rwkw (less than 400bhp) engine, and the w58 can take it. Norbie (off these forums) with a turbo 3 litre has already busted a couple of these boxes, and he's not putting out more than 500bhp (correct me if I'm wrong norbs).
Of course, Norbie's driving style has commonly been described as "psychotic", and it's rumoured he actively hates gearboxes, and tries to destroy them
[Updated on: Fri, 02 September 2005 08:15]
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Registered:
June 2005
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 08:22
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Cheers, Well as i said im new to the toyota gearboxes excluding the old stuff. What sort of price would i be looking at for a 6 speed? Ill have to check i can get the right bellhousing etc, and make sure it will fit. i wouldnt be giving it heaps all the time, but last thing i want to do is fuck the gearbox and have to pull it all out.
I was going to go the 502CI chev, but it was cheaper to get a 454ci bored to 496, the power isnt much difference. I had looked at bring a 632Ci into the country but at $21K plus shipping its hard to justify, but yeah 900bhp stock would be nice. add a blower.....
Cheers, Errol
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 13:03
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Power doesn't mean too much when it comes to obliterating gearboxes, it's all about torque. And with a blown 500ci engine, you should have a bit of torque to spare... Rough calculations suggest that with 800hp at 6500rpm, you'd have around 650 Ft/Lb of torque. And I wouldn't really ask a W box to put up with that for too long. While not the strongest, nicest or cheapest box around, maybe a T56 kit would be one idea you could try? I guess another option is to use an auto, but you don't sound so keen on that idea.
An R154 ('Supra turbo')box would probably be quite alright with the NA engine, and for that matter a W box would survive quite alright if the thing was treated sedately - but I'm presuming (merely speculating?) that you'd like to do some reasonable sized burnouts, and slam some gears down the quarter, as you'd probably just use a 350 if you were planning on boulevard cruising. This is, of course, me presuming! Tell us more about your intentions...
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Registered:
June 2005
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 13:34
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Hey mate,
Well at this stage its just going to be more of a show car, mostly a weekend cruiser. I love the sound of big V8s, plus it makes it more unique. You see a million 308 and 350's around the place, even a few 454's, but i havnt seen to many 496, 502 or above.
Although this isnt going to be a drag car, or everyday driver i still want to be able to put the foot down. I looked at various engines, but a 496 reconditioned engine with 12 month warenty complete for $6k seemed pretty good. Just before i go buy one i want an gearbox that can handle the torque.
If anyone knows where i can get a better engine cheaper i would love to know, im doing my research atm and trying to learn as much as possible.
Cheers, Errol
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 13:44
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For show value it's always hard to go past the biggest iron mountain possible, along with a couple of feet of shiny stuff hanging through the bonnet. A few folk will probably pipe up here and suggest much smaller Toyota engines as being 'better' - but I think they miss the point. I'd probably look at using an R154 or a T56, if the traditional auto ('glide, 4L80E, THM400) don't appeal to you.
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Registered:
June 2005
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 13:56
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AUTO IS OUT OF THE QUESTOIN lol
Na for a weekend cruiser you cannt go past manual. And just saying that will probably start a whole autos v manuals debate but i dont car. Autos may be faster these days, but its not all about speed. Sometimes its about feeling and driving pleasure.
Everyone is entitiled to their own opinion, some like auto, some like turbo.
I personally love a 6 speed manaul, bolted to a big chevy V8. Not about the speed, or power or anything like that, but the sound.
Correct me if im wrong but isnt the T56 from the holden commonwhore? lol, btw i own one, with a t50.
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Registered:
December 2004
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 14:31
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toploader
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 14:37
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T56 is in LS1 Commodores and BA Falcons. It's not the nicest box to drive, but they do seem to have a name for putting up with reasonable power. You don't own one with a T50, you'd have one with a T5. T50 is a tiny little weakling Toyota box completely unsuitable for what you want!
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 20:54
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driving pleasure ? big torquey v8 ? manual gbox ?
You better discuss that with your clutch builder too. Good luck
Shock is the major killer of gboxes, rather than torque.
Plan to launch on slicks.... heavy car ? Good luck
Wouldn't a twin turbo 'common' smallblock be cheaper to setup ?
Different application of torque, but can get as hairy as you want.
Should be even more unique and still sound sweet
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 23:48
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maybe look at a Tremac TKO box, talk to RACESPEC on here, he was able to get them at one stage i beleive
or go to www.dragster.com.au someone on there is organising a group buy right now
and the same on www.ausrotary.com
i think supra 6 speeds are 2-3K
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Location:
Kilsyth, Melbourne
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Fri, 02 September 2005 23:56
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muncie rock crusher?
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Location:
logan river brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Sun, 04 September 2005 11:30
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w58 400 crank hp -$400 plus bellhousing
R154 500 crank hp-$1000 plus bell
v160? 600 CRANK HP -$3000 PLUS BELL
JUST A GUIDE,DEPENDS ON CONDITION ETC.all these boxes will handle and have handled 50% more power than quoted in the right hands.Can also be broken with less power in the wrong hands.
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Registered:
June 2005
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Sun, 04 September 2005 11:47
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"JUST A GUIDE,DEPENDS ON CONDITION ETC.all these boxes will handle and have handled 50% more power than quoted in the right hands.Can also be broken with less power in the wrong hands."
Now this may seem a stupid question, but what do you classify as decent driving. As in when i drive i dont dump the clutch through all gears, or flat shit or anything stupid like that. But once the gear is properly engauged i will give it full throttel.
Ive also been looking at Chev Getrag - 5 Speed Gearbox
Reconditioned. Cost $2700. #A178. Is this a good price, is the better boxes out there etc? How would i go with a R154?? is this manual?
Cheers, Errol
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Sun, 04 September 2005 16:17
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R154 is a 5-speed manual, but it's a bit agricultural in the shift and doesn't have the reputation of the v160.
the v160 is the 6-speed getrag box out of the mkIV TT supra, and has been known to handle a lot more than 600bhp, but as mentioned it's torque that kills gboxes
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Location:
logan river brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Sun, 04 September 2005 16:18
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feistl.I am certain you are a great bloke.please help me and yourself.at the top of the page,just under the Toymods sign and "home" there is a link which is called "SEARCH"
If anyone suggests something that you have not heard of,just search it.I use it constantly.Not having a go at you mate.There is no reason for people to know about this stuff until getting involved with it.Yes.R154 is a manual gearbox.
Also.please include your location in your details.It really helps when trying to help people if you know where they are.ie.you can suggest a local supplier etc.
Cheers.Pete.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How much power can a Supra/Celica gearbox handle?
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Mon, 05 September 2005 00:27
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For the power and torque we're looking at here, no OEM Toyota box is really suitable. The Getrag 6-speed (as used in late-model Supras and Skyline GTR's) is a very tough box but I still reckon you'd snap it eventually, and when the bare box costs upwards of $3k it could get expensive quickly. Also keep in mind the Getrag doesn't have a separate bellhousing, so adapting it to fit another engine would make it even more costly.
If you really must have a manual transmission behind such a torque monster, an aftermarket race-spec box starts to make a lot of sense. The Tremec TKO as mention above is a good suggestion. Justen Simpson has one of these behind his twin-turbo Lexus V8 and has nothing but good things to say about them. They're not cheap but breaking gearboxes isn't cheap either!
http://www.tremec.com/English/products/TKO.asp
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