| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sat, 03 September 2005 14:36
|
 |
G'day guys,
i am building a turbo GZE for my AE92 and i have a few questions.
I am using an AE92 MAP sensored GZE Engine with the AE101 LSD FWD 5 Speed Box.
1. What CAM's would you guys recommend?
2. What turbocharger should i use if i want to make power within the 300+hp range? (i have heard that t3/t4 hybrids are good?)
3. I have heard that the crank and conrods are good for up to around 450hp, so all i need to do is slam some nice forged pistons in there. Is this correct? and if so, what is a good brand of piston? ie. Wiseco, Arias, etc.
4. Is it worth using the 20V Head?
5. Is it worth using Nitrous Oxide? and if so, will the stock gze conrods and crank be up to the task?
I will be making custom intake and turbo manifolds, and i am using a Microtech LT10s Engine Management System, with possibly the addition of a MSD DIGI-4 for ignition.
Thanks for your time,
Dan
|
|
|
Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sat, 03 September 2005 23:27
|
|
1. the standard cams are fine.
2. i've only had experience with the lil t25, so i cant comment.
3. the engine already has forged pistons.
4. IMO no.
5. do you want to keep it legal?
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 00:53
|
|
Teh Witzl's Responsez
1. Stock cams are fine. Upgrade later if you want more
2. The S15 T28 is a nice little number, but cant be pushed too much more than 15psi. Otherwise a WRX turbo is a good size, and well proven for 150fwkW
3. GZE pistons are more than capable.
4. no
5. no, unless you are a spaz 
IGNITION - the X4 ignition box with the LT10s will be more than enough.
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 01:50
|
|
| THE WITZL wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 10:53 |
Teh Witzl's Responsez
1. Stock cams are fine. Upgrade later if you want more
2. The S15 T28 is a nice little number, but cant be pushed too much more than 15psi. Otherwise a WRX turbo is a good size, and well proven for 150fwkW
3. GZE pistons are more than capable.
4. no
5. no, unless you are a spaz
IGNITION - the X4 ignition box with the LT10s will be more than enough.
|
I think you should do a little more research man. The standard s15 turbo will do 20 psi on a gte. This is what mine ran without any problems. Anything after that is out of its efficiency range.
An s15 turbo on a gte will net you around the 170fwkw. It has to be modified to get anymore. Mine was modified and i ended up with 205rwkw. A wrx turbo is a little on the small side if you wish to get any big numbers.
Also, if you need a custom plenum i have one made for your car. Pm me if you are interested.
|
|
|
Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 01:55
|
|
2. T3/T4 Hybrid = old turbo technology. As pointed out by teh Witzl even a tiny (read responsive) turbo like that of a WRX is plenty (WRX is rated at 275hp from the factory).
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 04:56
|
|
| fatmr2 wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 11:50 |
| THE WITZL wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 10:53 |
Teh Witzl's Responsez
1. Stock cams are fine. Upgrade later if you want more
2. The S15 T28 is a nice little number, but cant be pushed too much more than 15psi. Otherwise a WRX turbo is a good size, and well proven for 150fwkW
3. GZE pistons are more than capable.
4. no
5. no, unless you are a spaz
IGNITION - the X4 ignition box with the LT10s will be more than enough.
|
I think you should do a little more research man. The standard s15 turbo will do 20 psi on a gte. This is what mine ran without any problems. Anything after that is out of its efficiency range.
An s15 turbo on a gte will net you around the 170fwkw. It has to be modified to get anymore. Mine was modified and i ended up with 205rwkw. A wrx turbo is a little on the small side if you wish to get any big numbers.
Also, if you need a custom plenum i have one made for your car. Pm me if you are interested.
|
YOU DARE TO CHALLENGE WITZL 
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 05:24
|
|
| old_mr2 wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 14:56 |
YOU DARE TO CHALLENGE WITZL
|
lol
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 06:40
|
|
|
fatmr2, I'm not disputing your claim of 20psi on a standard s15 turbo, but I have heard from many sources that they can't be pushed further than 15psi because they have ceramic exhaust wheels that crack after this point.
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 07:02
|
|
|
they have a steel wheel you are thinking of skyline turbos
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 07:24
|
|
| Speed Demon wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 16:40 |
fatmr2, I'm not disputing your claim of 20psi on a standard s15 turbo, but I have heard from many sources that they can't be pushed further than 15psi because they have ceramic exhaust wheels that crack after this point.
|
They dont have a ceramic wheel. It's steel. As 4agte has pointed out 
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 07:25
|
|
| old_mr2 wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 14:56 |
| fatmr2 wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 11:50 |
| THE WITZL wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 10:53 |
Teh Witzl's Responsez
1. Stock cams are fine. Upgrade later if you want more
2. The S15 T28 is a nice little number, but cant be pushed too much more than 15psi. Otherwise a WRX turbo is a good size, and well proven for 150fwkW
3. GZE pistons are more than capable.
4. no
5. no, unless you are a spaz
IGNITION - the X4 ignition box with the LT10s will be more than enough.
|
I think you should do a little more research man. The standard s15 turbo will do 20 psi on a gte. This is what mine ran without any problems. Anything after that is out of its efficiency range.
An s15 turbo on a gte will net you around the 170fwkw. It has to be modified to get anymore. Mine was modified and i ended up with 205rwkw. A wrx turbo is a little on the small side if you wish to get any big numbers.
Also, if you need a custom plenum i have one made for your car. Pm me if you are interested.
|
YOU DARE TO CHALLENGE WITZL
|
Well.....When your wrong your wrong 
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 09:01
|
|
i am unable to determine if the S15 turbo i have here is ceramic or not. i would have thought ceramic by the ringing note it makes when tapped with a screwdriver....
YelloRolla will no doubt pipe in with his thoughts on the turbo i showed him.
NB: i did not buy this turbo, so i cannot conclusively say 100% is it in fact S15.
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 12:56
|
|
LOL
thanks for the advice guys. For my application i think i will go with a set of Arias forged pistons, and leave the rest of the bottom end as stock toyota. I will need to get my crank ground due to #1 conrod bearing being chewed down to pretty much nothing and replace the conrod itself.
I am still unsure which turbo i should use though? I have heard that a T3/T4 hybrid is a good choice for power in the range of 300 - 400hp. Tony Rigoli from rigoli performance has a corolla there with the 20V head, stock internals (bar a set of forged pistons) and he is using a T3/T4 hybrid turbo. He produces 405fwhp.
Has anyone had any luck with any larger turbo's?
As for the Ignition side of things, thanks WITZL, i had forgotten about my X-4 module.
And with the Nitrous Oxide? thought i would simply give it a go to see whether it is actually worth it or not? On legal terms its a big NO NO. But for performance? i dunno.
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 13:40
|
|
how much power you looking at making???
The gt series turbos arent too expensive any more something like a gt28 RS
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sun, 04 September 2005 13:51
|
|
|
looking at making around the 350 - 400hp mark?
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 00:16
|
|
| DanielGVisser wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 20:56 |
thanks for the advice guys. For my application i think i will go with a set of Arias forged pistons
|
Why bother with the Arias ones, when the 4AGZE ones are already forged and ceramic coated, come in either 8:1 and 8.9:1 compression ratios. Save the difference and put it towards better tuning.
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 01:01
|
|
| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 05 September 2005 10:16 |
| DanielGVisser wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 20:56 |
thanks for the advice guys. For my application i think i will go with a set of Arias forged pistons
|
Why bother with the Arias ones, when the 4AGZE ones are already forged and ceramic coated, come in either 8:1 and 8.9:1 compression ratios. Save the difference and put it towards better tuning.
|
dont forget that they are cheap aswell
i think they are arround the $350 mark
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 01:35
|
|
alrighty then, will give the toyota ones a go! You guys make a very good point, the more money for tuning i can get the better.
And i should use a HKS GT2535 or a 2540R eh?
Will have to do some research on these turbo's i think. How much are they worth?
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 01:53
|
|
|
is it possible to push 400 hp out of these engines with a turbo change to the next size or few sizes up? or is there no point?
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 02:08
|
|
| DanielGVisser wrote on Mon, 05 September 2005 11:53 |
is it possible to push 400 hp out of these engines with a turbo change to the next size or few sizes up? or is there no point?
|
so 400hp = 300kw
7000rpm = 407Nm
1.6L = approx 150Nm/bar = 1.72bar boost = 25psi
imho it is rpm and poor tuning which kills motors..
if you get the fuel AND ignition timing spot on, and good efficiency everywhere (ie manifolds, turbo and intercooling) you should be able to make 400hp from maybe 25-30psi at only 7000rpm
as was said before, get the smallest turbo that is still in it's efficiency range at the pressure and airflow you want..
and if you plan to drive it on the road, don't even bother stuffing around with some dodgy 2nd hand turbo. get one that is perfectly sized for what you want (and don't listen to 2nd hand info.. go and talk to garrett as a starting point)
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 02:34
|
|
| oldcorollas wrote on Mon, 05 September 2005 12:08 |
imho it is rpm and poor tuning which kills motors..
if you get the fuel AND ignition timing spot on, and good efficiency everywhere (ie manifolds, turbo and intercooling) you should be able to make 400hp from maybe 25-30psi at only 7000rpm
as was said before, get the smallest turbo that is still in it's efficiency range at the pressure and airflow you want..
and if you plan to drive it on the road, don't even bother stuffing around with some dodgy 2nd hand turbo. get one that is perfectly sized for what you want (and don't listen to 2nd hand info.. go and talk to garrett as a starting point)
|
this is good advice
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 04:47
|
|
| 4agte wrote on Mon, 05 September 2005 11:01 |
| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 05 September 2005 10:16 |
| DanielGVisser wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 20:56 |
thanks for the advice guys. For my application i think i will go with a set of Arias forged pistons
|
Why bother with the Arias ones, when the 4AGZE ones are already forged and ceramic coated, come in either 8:1 and 8.9:1 compression ratios. Save the difference and put it towards better tuning.
|
dont forget that they are cheap aswell
i think they are arround the $350 mark
|
Agreed that they're both cheap and strong... they are bloody heavy though. I think that would be the only bonus to getting aftermarket pistons... less weight to move.
Eddie.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 10:24
|
|
Hey mate
To say that a T3/4 is a good choice is a very general statement, as several A/R ratios & wheel trims are available which will affect peak power & response greatly.
You would certainly be best to research the Garrett/HKS range of new generation ball bearing turbos to get a nicely matched setup that will give you the top end grunt plus reasonable response, which you won't get from the old school T3/T4 range 
If you're keen on going HKS, I have a genuine HKS GT2540 in my shed that I could part with.
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 15:58
|
|
i am definately going to go with HKS range. I will work out what turbo i want... need to do more research i think. I am considering a GT2540 which is what you have to offer i know, but i may go larger. When i sort it out i will let you know?
Has anyone had any experience with these HKS turbo's? could i ask what power levels people have received with which HKS turbo's on the 4A-GE engine?
Many thanks for all your helpful comments guys, it is greatly appreciated.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Mon, 05 September 2005 22:09
|
|
larger? There are a number of SR20's getting around with ~250kw at the wheels with the HKS GT2540! Don't be fooled by the relatively small external appearance, they have huge flow potential, remember its only on a 1.6 litre which won't happily spool a GT30
Good luck with your research, its a bit of a jungle out there  Don't believe everything you hear
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 00:35
|
|
decided to go with the GT2540R with the 0.64 Exhaust Housing!
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 02:14
|
|
with SR20 turbos the T25 is ceramic, the T25g is steel and the T28 is steel as well. t25 was on s13 sr20's t25g came off s14 and t28 was on s15's im pretty sure.
would be a good idea to look at www.nissansilvia.com for 100% info. my mate got a blacktop 180sx (1996) sr20 and it had a t25g on it.
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 03:01
|
|
|
I belevie the s14 had the ball bearin t28 later on.. Also the GTI-R i think had a non ball bearing t28. I think the GTR also has ceramic wheel t28's
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 08:57
|
|
|
early S14 had bush bearing T28 also, this is what I used to run on my 4A.
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 13:20
|
|
so what the heck are you going to do with 300-400hp in a FWD shopping trolley??
any plans for traction?
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 16:32
|
|
going to start off with some slicks for the front and a full suspension upgrade. Then if i still have traction problems after that.... your guess is as good as mine 
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Tue, 06 September 2005 16:48
|
|
| DanielGVisser wrote on Wed, 07 September 2005 02:32 |
going to start off with some slicks for the front and a full suspension upgrade. Then if i still have traction problems after that.... your guess is as good as mine
|
 ahhh the 400m dash to coles i suppose?
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Wed, 07 September 2005 01:36
|
|
ahhh true true haha
But on the more serious side of things, i have stumbled across a small pain in the @ss of a problem. My local toyota dealer does not know sh*t about the gze engine. Therefore the halfwits there cannot order anything for me.
So guys i thought i might as well ask you for help!
I am chasing toyota part numbers for GZE Block Internals:
1. Pistons (and do toyota make oversized ones, i am guessing they do)
2. Rings
3. Conrods & Bearings
4. Main Bearings
5. Rear Oil Seal
6. And anything else i have probably forgotten
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Wed, 07 September 2005 16:16
|
|
|
no worries, will email him. i think i have spoken with him before actually. Cheers 4agte!
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Wed, 07 September 2005 22:01
|
|
|
nw good luck with the buildup keep us posted
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Fri, 09 September 2005 05:55
|
|
Got ahold of Toyota, Sloan is on holidays, but i spoke to another lad and i ordered oversized pistons and rings so that the block can get sorted out as far as boring,etc goes.
What is a good spark plug to use on a turbo GZE? I have been using NGK's. Do i still use the same ones for the supercharged engine? or do i need to change them for a turbo application?
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Fri, 09 September 2005 06:43
|
|
|
this is a bit of a grey area iridiums will last longer but finding the right temp range will take some experimenting im using the iridiums from my 4age in my gze without any problems
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Fri, 09 September 2005 11:19
|
|
|
spark plug = NGK BCPR6EY-8 (0.8mm gap)
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Sat, 10 September 2005 04:17
|
|
Thanks guys!
I have also solved my crankshaft problem, just picked up a complete GZE block locally for $100.
Will keep you guys posted and possibly take some photo's when i get my good block & head back from the machine shop.
|
|
|
Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: 4A-GTE Buildup
|
Tue, 13 September 2005 01:02
|
|
TE72_Turbo you should have some pm's now. Sorry they have been in the early hours of the morning, been working late.
Engine will be put back together within the next week or so.
Now what colour do i paint it?
|
|
|
