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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 03:04
 
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pm mrshin he converted a 1jzgte into a ford ute and runs it on LPQ
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Location:
Perth, WA.
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 04:46
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Paid 131.9 for U98 in Perth yesterday (30/8).
$40 got me just under half a tank and I spend around $80 a week going to and from work. If I go on a cruise aswell on the weekend then add about another $40 on top of that.
Bought a 100cc Yamaha moped that can do 100km/h so I can commute to work on. Just need to get a motorbike licence to ride it then it'll be about $10 a week in fuel.
- Chris.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 06:21
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We shouldn't even be using petrol anyway. We should be on some alternative fuel by now. Ethaol would be a good start. But we've left it to late. I can't imagine what this is doing to sales of new cars. I think a lot more economy cars are gonna be sold in the near future, and we might see a drop in overall car useage in favour of public transport or bikes etc. That wouldn't be good for car companies.
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Location:
Newcastle, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 07:02
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I'll have to look into that  Thanks Corona.
Good site regarding fuel:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
Read both pages. Rather bleak outlook 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 09:02
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Does anyone know if the diesel prices are going to rise with unleaded?
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 09:20
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Is diesel made from oil?  If the answer to the question is yes then of course it fricken will.
There is an argument though that diesel should never be as exy as it is, my uncle worked for shell for 30 years and diesel takes far less refining than petrol so it should be a lot cheaper but isn't anywho yes the price of diesel will rise to.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 09:37
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| Ribfeast wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 17:02 |
I'll have to look into that Thanks Corona.
Good site regarding fuel:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
Read both pages. Rather bleak outlook
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That is some scary shit.
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 12:31
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A mate of mine today told me that the Forbes business dude thinks that oil prices will drop from $70/barrell down to around $45/barrell next year...
Im really looking forward to it 
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Location:
NSW - Blue Mountains
Registered:
June 2004
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 13:10
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i really wanted to believe it 
 just need things to settle down around the world, none of this uncertainty crap...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 31 August 2005 23:07
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In adelaide today its sitting at about 130c fro regular ULP! Filled up this morning, ouch...
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 01:28
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here is a joke about the petrol, am actully going to try this one and see what reaction i get with the misses here goes:
When I got home from work last night, my WIFE demanded
that I take her out to some place expensive..............
So I took her to a petrol station!!!!!!
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 02:04
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Did anyone get the chainmail crap about not buying petrol today? 
So silly
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Location:
Newcastle, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 06:39
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Anyone see the article on ACA or Today Tonight last night about people doing a runner at the petrol station after filling up?
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Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 07:35
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| jcmunga wrote on Tue, 30 August 2005 23:05 |
well im one of the lucky ones that has discovered LPG
i have a el falcon, i worked out id be spending around $80 a week on petrol but with gas its less tan half.
42.9/l, BP have a 2c discount card so 40.9/l
about $28 to fill the tank and i get 400ks to a tank
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Yep,
I know what you mean.
We used to have a 74 Bedford van...seriously with a big V8 cams extractors twin system etc etc..it was also on gas.
We had a 140 litre tank and if you were conservative you could get 700ks from the tank, when we got it gas was around 35c per litre, it was cheaper the run this than the AW11 on premium
This was a "gas only" conversion, so it was tuned to run gas only so there was no compromise you have with dual fuel.
ribfest, i am sure you could get your jz to run on gas there are some serious performance engines running on gas. There are some mobs that specialize in this area.
Somewhere down the track when i get the GTE set up i am seriously considering gas. it also helps in respect in regards to exhaust emmisions test. infact if i understand correctly if the car runs on LPG there is no requitement for emmissions testing with these sort of engine swaps/mods, would be keen to get anyones ideas on this matter.
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Location:
NSW - Blue Mountains
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 08:45
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How much does it cost to get a an egine converted to "gas only" im guessing the price of the conversion and a rebuild? if thats the case what would that work out to be on a 1UZ?
I'm thinking of getting a Celsior mid-late next year and LPG conversion on it, so does anyone know the size of the boot in these (1990-91 mdoels), big enough for a 70+ ltr tank and still have room left to carry stuff?
Oops high jack
cheers
chris
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Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 09:28
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Yep, there are some negatives with gas.
It depends if you are going for straight gas or dual fuel.
some of the late model duel fuel set ups can work very well on EFI cars but has to be ones designed for it so that the fuel mapping timing etc are adjusted for the different fuels. To my knowlege even most of the current crop dont do this and subsequently you get a compromise which results in the worst of both worlds. The car needs to be specifically tuned for each fuel....FULL STOP !
As previously mentioned some gaskets etc are a prob on some engines, you would have to check with the installer. from what i understand if its dual fuel you can overcome some of the probs by starting the car on petrol then after 10-15 mins go to the gas, but as i said erlier you may end up in the worst of both world. From what i understand there is another way to overcome the drying effect in gas only conversions where there is a fluid injected at a certain rate to lubricate / keep wetted certain components.
Another prob is in a litre per km count you only get about 1/2 the distance / litre of gas to petrol. What this means is you need a much bigger tank. so thats ok as the gas is still say 1/3 of the petrol cost so economy wise its ok. the associated problem is where do i put a tank big enough to go the same distance per tank. That was the prob we had with the bedford and why we end up putting a 140 litre tank in it, especially when you go bush there are a lot of servos without gas 
So in a small car it can be difficult to locate a suitable sized tank especially as they are the usual cylinder shape, you cant just replace the existing tank. Some of the latest falcons actually have a better packaged gas cell but these odd shaped tanks are not available to the public yet
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Location:
NSW - Blue Mountains
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 11:17
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| GUN METAL 87 SC wrote on Thu, 01 September 2005 19:28 |
Yep, there are some negatives with gas.
It depends if you are going for straight gas or dual fuel.
some of the late model duel fuel set ups can work very well on EFI cars but has to be ones designed for it so that the fuel mapping timing etc are adjusted for the different fuels. To my knowlege even most of the current crop dont do this and subsequently you get a compromise which results in the worst of both worlds. The car needs to be specifically tuned for each fuel....FULL STOP !
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Do "Gas Only" engines use more advanced or reduced timing over petrol engines, what if it was tuned more towards one then the other?, ie. tuned more towards LPG and have petrol run through it on start up and every so often to prevent things from drying out and creating problems.
| GUN METAL 87 SC wrote on Thu, 01 September 2005 19:28 |
As previously mentioned some gaskets etc are a prob on some engines, you would have to check with the installer. from what i understand if its dual fuel you can overcome some of the probs by starting the car on petrol then after 10-15 mins go to the gas, but as i said erlier you may end up in the worst of both world. From what i understand there is another way to overcome the drying effect in gas only conversions where there is a fluid injected at a certain rate to lubricate / keep wetted certain components.
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Is there actually something that can inject petrol at regular intervals to keep everything lubricated while its running on a duel fuel setup?
If there is that would be pretty useful for the times that you may forget to change back to petrol, also wouldnt this screw with the timing having two different fuels mixing together? I would think that a setup like that may not be as economical having both fuel pumped in at once, unless the setup changed automatically between the fuels at regular intervals and used petrol for the start-up/warm-up time.
GUN METAL 87 SC - What type of economy do you get from a 140ltr tank? cost around $60 to fill up a tank that size, am i right?
cheers
chris
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Location:
Perth Western Australia
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 11:58
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does anyone know how easy a gas conversion would be on late 80's Engines ?
or is it mainly 90's engines that can get the conversion ?
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Location:
NSW - Blue Mountains
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 14:02
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According to the guy i spoke with it can be done on pretty much any engine carbie or EFI, the only real problem is finding where to mount the tank so it wont be in the way of anything or illegal.
I should go talk to that guy again find out some more shit about lpg conversions
cheers
chris
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Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 14:23
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| CoronaC wrote on Thu, 01 September 2005 21:17 |
| GUN METAL 87 SC wrote on Thu, 01 September 2005 19:28 |
Yep, there are some negatives with gas.
It depends if you are going for straight gas or dual fuel.
some of the late model duel fuel set ups can work very well on EFI cars but has to be ones designed for it so that the fuel mapping timing etc are adjusted for the different fuels. To my knowlege even most of the current crop dont do this and subsequently you get a compromise which results in the worst of both worlds. The car needs to be specifically tuned for each fuel....FULL STOP !
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Do "Gas Only" engines use more advanced or reduced timing over petrol engines, what if it was tuned more towards one then the other?, ie. tuned more towards LPG and have petrol run through it on start up and every so often to prevent things from drying out and creating problems.
| GUN METAL 87 SC wrote on Thu, 01 September 2005 19:28 |
As previously mentioned some gaskets etc are a prob on some engines, you would have to check with the installer. from what i understand if its dual fuel you can overcome some of the probs by starting the car on petrol then after 10-15 mins go to the gas, but as i said erlier you may end up in the worst of both world. From what i understand there is another way to overcome the drying effect in gas only conversions where there is a fluid injected at a certain rate to lubricate / keep wetted certain components.
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Is there actually something that can inject petrol at regular intervals to keep everything lubricated while its running on a duel fuel setup?
If there is that would be pretty useful for the times that you may forget to change back to petrol, also wouldnt this screw with the timing having two different fuels mixing together? I would think that a setup like that may not be as economical having both fuel pumped in at once, unless the setup changed automatically between the fuels at regular intervals and used petrol for the start-up/warm-up time.
GUN METAL 87 SC - What type of economy do you get from a 140ltr tank? cost around $60 to fill up a tank that size, am i right?
cheers
chris
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As for the timing and tuning differences i am really not sure...all i know is they are different, also the burn rates are different and prefer different plugs and cam selections can also be different...like i said before dual fuel is a compromise.
in the gas only V8 we had...sold it about 12 months ago 
There was a fluid that was injected, not a fuel but a lubricant.
Sort of like the old oil injected 2 strokes.
The difference was that it hardly used any at all..like a litre lasted over 3 years. Well actually i could be wrong there i actually got a workshop to do most of the routine servicing on this car, so maybe he kept it topped up....really dont know.
working on these bedfords was a bit of a nightmare it weighed over 2 tonnes and i did not have a big enough jack to get under it, also 1/2 the engine is under the hood and the other 1/2 is in between the driver and passenger. and as these things usually only had only a 4 or 6cylinder, with a big V8in it everything was TIGHT...the mechanic would cringe every time i drove it in....which was pretty regularly....not Toyota reliability thats for SURE.
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 14:47
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im thinking of buying a tank, anyone know what they get L/km???
actually, i recently purchased a 50cc moped from a mate, which looks like it will be my main form of transport around to mates houses and that.
sigh
what a nightmare.
Eldar.O.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Location:
NSW - Blue Mountains
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 15:30
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Oh that lubricant stuff, see it in car shops all the time but it completely slipped my mind what its for
Is there a canister that its put in and it just injects it at intervals, are these usually part of the conversion system for either duel or gas only or do they cost extra on top of the system (exception of the fluid, obviously )?
cheers
chris
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Thu, 01 September 2005 16:28
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| CoronaC wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 01:30 |
Oh that lubricant stuff, see it in car shops all the time but it completely slipped my mind what its for
Is there a canister that its put in and it just injects it at intervals, are these usually part of the conversion system for either duel or gas only or do they cost extra on top of the system (exception of the fluid, obviously )?
cheers
chris
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u mean "valve saver"?
my uncle runs a conversion business and im pretty confident that he installs a valve saver system with every conversion, not 100% sure..but fairly sure...ive never seen a conversion leave the shop without one atleast.
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Location:
Liverpool
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Fri, 02 September 2005 00:51
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Thought this was appropriate.
Cheers, Greg.
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Fri, 02 September 2005 00:55
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that is quite appropriate, thankyou for your contribution
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Fri, 02 September 2005 00:59
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i think it would read better as:
Unleaded : OMG
Plus: WTF
LPQ: BBQ
Premium:111
Diesel:!!!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Sat, 03 September 2005 20:55
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| Corona RT142 wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 10:59 |
i think it would read better as:
Unleaded : OMG
Plus: WTF
LPQ: BBQ
Premium:111
Diesel:!!!
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You forgot
Service station: ....
Oil companies: Profit!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Sun, 04 September 2005 02:39
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My Bluebird runs an fj20turbo with an LPG only fuel system. I get around 300kms of thrashy driving from $20.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Sun, 04 September 2005 08:38
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I went to Sydney today in my mates barbeque... I mean ute .
All up, about 500km, costing the mere sum of $30 in LPG... Grrr. If only LPG went fast as well as being cheaper than Brittney Spears' urine
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2005
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 05:36
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reading all this stuff makes me want to sell my car while its still worth something and buy an eletric push bike.. 4c to charge... 150k's to a full charge! does 75k's top speed.. my dad has one
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 05:41
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lol and to think i have to fill up tonight
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 05:51
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| Quote: |
lol and to think i have to fill up tonight
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Yeah do you want go and watch
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 05:54
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ohh fuck.
i meant that as a reply to the electric pushbike thing
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 06:36
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| Quote: |
ohh fuck.
i meant that as a reply to the electric pushbike thing
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Sure you did  perhaps Rona will let you hold the hose while he fills up
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Membership Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 06:50
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I have a 4L falcon EF/EL and for abot $30 or 65odd litres of fuel I get about 350ish Km's of hard driving. Its dual fuel though so not tuned for gas. You can notice the power difference betweeen fuel and LPG
I will be reading those above articles as a Turbo 1J 2J on gas has crossed my mind for the Crown
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 07:40
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| tricky wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 18:38 |
I went to Sydney today in my mates barbeque... I mean ute .
All up, about 500km, costing the mere sum of $30 in LPG... Grrr. If only LPG went fast as well as being cheaper than Brittney Spears' urine
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a friends XF falcon has single turbo running 15psi on the 4.1L donk. on gas. it goes well.
i think he's just about to order some LPG injectors as well,, for the next stage
i'm seriously considering it for my next build also....
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 08:19
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What sort of cam's do you need to run with LPG???
Low lift long duration???
Short overlap?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 08:38
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| Toobs wrote on Tue, 06 September 2005 18:19 |
What sort of cam's do you need to run with LPG???
Low lift long duration???
Short overlap?
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i'm not sure they need to be that different... cam just gets air in and out, and the gas is just the fuel... being gaseous, it mixes much better with the air, and there is no dropout/mixture stratification to deal with (or less so)..
Mr Shin is prolly a better person to ask here (but i'll ask gareth also)
one difference is that you can run a bit more compression (gareth has 15psi in the ford 250 with stock (low) compression)
and the main thing is timing and mixtures... gas can deal with lean mixtures much better than rich, with rich increasing exhaust temps and valve seat temps... whereas lean it runs cooler (and is a common mistake for tuners 'parently)
i think gas also likes more timing down low and less timing up high or something, but i forget the details
i'm keen to try gas with vapour injectors... not so keen on using a mixer for FI....
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 08:43
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fixed...
they don't seem that special, tho seem to have high lift (which is what you want from a cam anyway )
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 10:34
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$139.9 today... for regular unleaded..
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 10:39
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| bathurst-91 wrote on Tue, 06 September 2005 20:34 |
$139.9 today... for regular unleaded..
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lucky im driving a camry , 600km to 50L .
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 12:17
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140yen per litre for high octane...
thats $1.75/L... $82 for a tank.... thats farrrked...
and cos the speed limits are so low and everything is stop and go, i get maybe 250km per 45-50L...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 13:28
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$1.52 for Mobil 8000 up my way, to a 70L tank makes me cry
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
Perth, WA.
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 22:33
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146.9/L in Perth yesterday (6/9) for U98 
- Chris.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 22:44
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148.9 for BP ultimate yesterday 37L came to just over 55 bucks.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 23:28
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I run my car on LPG too, what shits me is I didn't know they made LPG from oil either , HTF do they justify LPG doubling in price?
This time last year LPG was around 28.9 now its around 48.8? 
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Tue, 06 September 2005 23:30
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LPG is made from oil, its just shorter carbon-chain molecules (LPG=liquid petroleum gas.
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Location:
sydney, nearest store nea...
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 07 September 2005 00:33
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we need a new prime minister
hek, if the last one got votes to change the flight paths
why cant they lower fuel prices
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 07 September 2005 00:36
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Damn i didnt think the prices were that high now  , il have a look today.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 07 September 2005 00:42
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And to think they just used to burn LPG off, becase they couldn't figure out what to do with it.
LPG will go up with the price of petrol, and the goverment want to exise it as of next year, so it should go up by 12 to 15 cents a litre then.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 07 September 2005 00:42
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The only thing they could do is cut back the taxes. Australia produces about 70% of its own fuel most of this being LPG as we don't have an abundance of crude oil.
But the problem is way back we signed an agreement with OPEC stating that australian oil producers will sell their oil domestically at or above world price whether they be able to produce it far lesser cost than world price. This makes the oil companies happy cos they can't make super big profits but it also kept the oil cartels happy as they could compete in the australian market.
Simple as that, because of this agreement even if they could sell their oil at a lower price they can't legally do it meaning we are screwed until the gulf of mexico is back up and running the middle east settles down (not bloody likely), China stops developing and consuming oil at an unsustainable rate, the government lowers taxes.
If you wanna blame anyone take it out on China how dare they wanna become a developed nation they should stay third world damnit. I am kidding of course but seriously their growth is extremely alarming and if we are not careful they may consume a little too much to fast and alternate means of energy materials may not be available.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 07 September 2005 01:08
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China have like one third of the worlds population, anything they do is scary.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: !@#$%ING FUEL PRICES
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Wed, 07 September 2005 01:18
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129.9 in QLD and we get fuel subsidies! It is motorbike time people I can see a huge increase or motorbikes on our roads in the near future. It will be like in Asian countries where cars are very expensive to register so everyone gets bikes Maybe get some of the soccer mums out of their 4wd’s also
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