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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 02:34
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I promised these pics to bbaacchhyy, and thought they may be of use to other toymodders.
* T3 camberplates
* T3 63mm rollerbearing upperhats
* King Springs 250lb/250mm/63mm ID springs
* Koni sleeves
* Koni lower hat/adjusting ring
By coincidence, the colours of these components all match 
Note: the camber plates may look damaged or corroded in the pics - they're not, it's just dust from sitting in the garage.
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 02:35
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 03:47
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Looks good.
Out of curiosity, how much did you pay for the Kings. I have to buy some soon, and need to budget.
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Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 04:39
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Noice!
I'm planning to get the upper hat, camper plates, hub extender and the rca's
how much was shipping for you?
love the quality of their products!
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 05:06
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| takai wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 13:17 |
Looks good.
Out of curiosity, how much did you pay for the Kings. I have to buy some soon, and need to budget.
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I got mine from "CV & Driveshafts" in Pooraka for $95ea.
From memory they are one of the two official King distributors in SA.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 05:16
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nice job!
just make sure when you mod the strut that you give it a nice matching colour too and they will look like store bought ones!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 05:23
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i sell em for $80 + gst
stuff looks nice stef
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 06:56
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| takai |
Looks good.
Out of curiosity, how much did you pay for the Kings. I have to buy some soon, and need to budget.
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They were $200 delivered from AJPS (truenosedan1) - also bought a complete set of SuperPro bushings at the same time Very happy all round.
| xolent |
how much was shipping for you?
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Gabe only charged $9 usd express shipping for the camberplates + top hats - I'm very happy with the products & service.
| ae86drift |
just make sure when you mod the strut that you give it a nice matching colour too and they will look like store bought ones!
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I've been thinking about that... any suggestions? Red, I suppose, but I don't know how I'd match that in a spraycan. Also not sure what sort of paint to use.
| truenosedan1 wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 15:23 |
i sell em for $80 + gst
stuff looks nice stef
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Thanks, and thanks again for the springs & bushings. It was all very nicely packed & you're great to deal with
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 07:04
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doesnt seem to be a whole lot of allowable angular movement due to fouling of the spring hat and the bottom of the bearing carrier???....
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 07:48
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that link all sounds a bit frickin washy to me...
either the spherical bearing is deigned to take ALL the load, and provide for multiple dgrees of freedom of motion. the spring hat is in direct and consant contact with the bearing, and the two move together freely.
OR
the spring hat should 'locate' into the bottom of the sperical bearing retainer (which then take the axial spring load), with the shaft of the shock passing freely through the hat, the spring hat NEVER touching the spherical bearing, and the two move independantly. this implies that the bearing provides a range of motion to the shock shaft, and the range of angular motion required by the spring is provided by its own flexible properties.
what seems to be the case, though, is a half half sloppy-joe mix...
at near 90deg, the hat is located onto the spherical bearing (its doesnt appear located onto the bearing retainer at all), the two move together, and the spherical bearing takes all the load, then after a few degrees the spring hat will bottom out on the bearing retainer, and will be forced to remain static expecting the spring to take up the slack ?? 
now it does all depend on how much motion you require, but if youre going to dial in some camber, and put the system right on the edge, id love to see what happen under a big copressive load...
maybe im just seeing the pics wrong, but to my mind thats just isnt quite right
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 08:12
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 17:48 |
that link all sounds a bit frickin washy to me...
...maybe im just seeing the pics wrong, but to my mind thats just isnt quite right
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The pics are just a dodgy muck up on the3 strut insert. You have to remember that the ID of the upper hat is larger than the OD of the strut at that point, so this allows the upper hat to stay more or less parralel with the gold part of the camberplate. Which I imagine it will do with the spring pressure. At no point would the upper hat body be touching the camber plate.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 12:30
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Ahhh.
This is somthing i couldnt work out either.
Everthing ive seen about the T3 setup shows the top-hat bearing resting on on the yellow block of the camber plate.
This obviously doesnt make sense as this locks out the spherical bearing.
I only got the T3 camber-plates.
I had to make up spacers to keep my noltec hats off the yellow camber plate.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 12:52
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looks nice mate! how about the rear?
i have springs arriving this week, but the tops will be tricky
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Sun, 04 September 2005 13:55
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| rokusan wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 22:52 |
looks nice mate! how about the rear?
i have springs arriving this week, but the tops will be tricky
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I've decided the S13s won't work (not enough travel IMO) so am currently looking at standard-height AE86 rears.
Well, what do you expect when you remove the old IRS then install something from another car
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Tue, 06 September 2005 10:13
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teehee shhhh! 
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Location:
Hawthorn, Vic
Registered:
March 2005
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 02:29
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what are these and the kmacs worth if any1 knows....quite interested.
Any reason y these wouldnt fit a ra28?
Cheers
Nathan
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 02:34
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Prices are on the T3 site (www.technotoytuning.com) & postage to AUS for the plates is only 9usd. Pretty sure Gabe will make them to suit any rwd toy.
A lot of people have complaints about the kmac tops bending, plus they're a lot more expensive. They looik very flinsy in comparison to these, IMO. Not sure about cusco ones.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 03:10
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Yeah, MWP got some made up for an RA28.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 04:34
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are these GAB shocks any good? or is there something else thats better that i should look at getting?
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Location:
Hawthorn, Vic
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 04:44
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the kmacs i got a quote for just over 300 i think, which still makes them a damn lot more expensive.
i was either going to go the kmac or these... and as youve herd ppl saying the kmacs bend... well i guess its settled.
shame they are red though, still.. they contrast with blue enough 
also, where did you find the Koni sleeves and adjusting ring?
Ive had a search around Vic, but no-one seems to stock them 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 05:17
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Sun, 04 September 2005 17:18 |
that link all sounds a bit frickin washy to me...
either the spherical bearing is deigned to take ALL the load, and provide for multiple dgrees of freedom of motion. the spring hat is in direct and consant contact with the bearing, and the two move together freely.
OR
the spring hat should 'locate' into the bottom of the sperical bearing retainer (which then take the axial spring load), with the shaft of the shock passing freely through the hat, the spring hat NEVER touching the spherical bearing, and the two move independantly. this implies that the bearing provides a range of motion to the shock shaft, and the range of angular motion required by the spring is provided by its own flexible properties.
what seems to be the case, though, is a half half sloppy-joe mix...
at near 90deg, the hat is located onto the spherical bearing (its doesnt appear located onto the bearing retainer at all), the two move together, and the spherical bearing takes all the load, then after a few degrees the spring hat will bottom out on the bearing retainer, and will be forced to remain static expecting the spring to take up the slack ??
now it does all depend on how much motion you require, but if youre going to dial in some camber, and put the system right on the edge, id love to see what happen under a big copressive load...
maybe im just seeing the pics wrong, but to my mind thats just isnt quite right
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I'm with Ed on this one.
Even though I like them, I'd be making an adaptor so that the spherical bearing takes all the load. I don't like the flat area contact to take angular load
Cheers
Michael B
PS Thanks for the pics Stefan.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 05:18
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would you recmend this setup for track/drift use or more of a daily driver thing?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 05:57
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I know of a set of these which have been running in a rally sprinter for over a year now without a problem.
In reality there is very little angular displacement to worry about, the spring can easily bend enough to cope with it.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Wed, 07 September 2005 08:06
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| Ben Wilson wrote on Wed, 07 September 2005 15:27 |
In reality there is very little angular displacement to worry about, the spring can easily bend enough to cope with it.
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Thats probably true, but it wil be putting more stress on one side of the needle roller bearing in the hat which cant be a good thing.
Also whats the point then of having a spherical bearing in the top if its not used?
I looked up the stats on the bearing itself, and it is quite a nice unit... can easily take the load of a car and shock from the suspension/road.
I just used washers to space mine out... no need to have a special spacer machined.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 02:16
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The spherical bearing still takes the damping load from the shock. The flat bearing only takes the load from the spring. It needs a bearing there because while the spring will bend, the shock shaft won't (hopefully).
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 02:37
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Heh you woudl hope so with an almost inch thick strut tube.
Ill take some photos of mine setup when i get home.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 02:55
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| takai wrote on Thu, 08 September 2005 12:37 |
Heh you woudl hope so with an almost inch thick strut tube.
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I've seen them snapped in half.....
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 04:13
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| Ben Wilson wrote on Thu, 08 September 2005 12:16 |
The spherical bearing still takes the damping load from the shock. The flat bearing only takes the load from the spring. It needs a bearing there because while the spring will bend, the shock shaft won't (hopefully).
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i'm with Ben on this one.. i had a discussion with myself a while ago about it when i first saw the T3 bits used with cusco top hats (wherever that page went to).
spherical bearings do not take a huge amount of axial load without sufering. thrust bearings can take massive loads. the 25-30mm diameter ones i used for my bodgy tops could take a 2 tonne load!!
so anyway, springs do bend, even stiff ones, the top hat will stay fairly parallel to the camberplate unless you have whacky mounting gemoetry which puts the ccamberplate at a funy angle.
the top hat will always be in compression against the bearing and camberplate from the spring, but the spherical bearing gets cyclically loaded from the shock...
the spherical bearing is needed because as the strut rotates from steering, the angle changes slightly...only a couple of degrees, but if it was hardmounted, it would bind.
stock has normal bearings mounted in rubber and that is enough to take up the movement.. my bodgy ones had a piece of rubber between the thrust bearings and the camber plate.. and that seemed to be enough (good old radiator hose )
anyway, what i meant to post was that if i were designing the tops from the ground up, then the design would be identical to the T3 parts... which i did and they are so there's no point me making a second bodgy set is there 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 04:18
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yeah, but the problem i have is that the spring hat 'does not' appear to sit on the bottom of the camber plate in the 90deg position. looking at those pics, and seeing the small spacer provided in the kit, it appears as if the top spring hat (at 90deg) is loading directly on the bearing.
if it were permanantly located (ie collar/shoulder and dedicated thrust bearing surface) into the camber plate, itd be all good, but i simply dont see this
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 05:13
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Thu, 08 September 2005 14:18 |
yeah, but the problem i have is that the spring hat 'does not' appear to sit on the bottom of the camber plate in the 90deg position. looking at those pics, and seeing the small spacer provided in the kit, it appears as if the top spring hat (at 90deg) is loading directly on the bearing.
if it were permanantly located (ie collar/shoulder and dedicated thrust bearing surface) into the camber plate, itd be all good, but i simply dont see this
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As I said, these are dogy mock-up pics. The components all loosely placed together with the sleeve spaced out from the strut insert with paddlepop sticks, and no nut on the top of the strut insert. It was very difficult to keep it all lined up properly. In reality, the upper hat would stay very near parrallel with the strut top body. I don't see how the upper hat could possibly be loading the spherical bearing.
What spacer are you talking about? The "spacer" in the photos of the camber plates is actually to make the ID of the camber plate spherical bearing the same as the OD of the toyota strut insert, and sits on TOP, under the nut at the very top that would be installed if this actual setup were... installed.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 08:21
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Here are some more photos that i promised. These are setup on my HTS102s. Im still using some old junkyard nuts because I havnt had a chance to go out and get some others yet. This is pretty much how they will sit in the car, the only thing is i cant simulate 500kg ontop of them.
How the spacer/washer sits.
Cambertop Installed
From the side on.
A little bit of lateral movement, thats about 3* neg right there.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 08:34
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fark i wish i had your shocks
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 08:53
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| .wolfwood wrote on Thu, 08 September 2005 18:34 |
fark i wish i had your shocks
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meh, just dent your credit card
Takai, have you noticed any abnormal wear between the yellow alloy part and the thrust bearing?
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 08:56
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man i can pretty much affored them but the hts 102 are no longer made and i can find anyone with a set to sell me, thats the only problem
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 09:13
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ebay and yahoo auctions and plenty of patience... or just get TEIN's (or bilsteins)
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 09:33
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are TEIN's or bilsteins as good as the hts? and i cant find shit on ebay and yahoo actions never used it, dont even know web adress
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 13:04
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stew: i havnt even installed that setup in the car yet, still doing calcs on the sprung and unsprung weight and fixing up the balljoints.
The little bit of rust on the hats is due to being hit with an AFFF/DryPowder rig. Im actually thinking of putting a 1-2mm piece of rubber inbetween. Sure itll lose 0.001% of the suspension feel, but itll be one less clunk to worry about when im racing. Means i can concentrate on the more important clunks, like the ones which tell you that you have snapped 3 wheel studs.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Photos of coilover components/mockup- T3 camberplates/hats, King Springs, Koni sleeve kit
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Thu, 08 September 2005 20:25
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Well looking at all the pictures here all i can see is stuff all movement in the rotation arch on the camber top . Remember as the suspension moves in the direction plane the angle increases and decreases , such is the nature of the camber change in the mac strut design . Looking at all these pictures for sure the camber if set at one side on the plate as the wheel travels up or down will bind due to the lack of rotation that is available , causing side loading of the bearing , which will result in those clunks and bangs that you will here .
I thought someone would have figured out that the T3 gear is shit hot , but doesn't really come with a spacer with the degree of taper that gives you real movement without this occuring . Yes you have to make one up inbetween the camber plate and spring base . Then you should have the full movement available of the bearing , i have around 12' from memory .
Now to stop the question that you are going to ask next , what other modifications do you have to do to the t3 camber plates to get the most from them .
First , seal the camber plate from the inner wheel arch with a piece of innertube , that way it never gets shit in the bearing
http://www.pbase.com/ae86sr20det2005/image/3821504 1
Second , throw all those plate mounting bolts away , especially the three mounting bolts . They don't have thread lock on them for a start and after time when you go to disassemble the strut they will undo out into the underside . also the imperial size of the key bolts makes life crap .
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. as for auctions... LEARN.