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Location:
Burnie, Tasmania
Registered:
July 2005
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responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Thu, 08 September 2005 10:30
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Here is my situation.
MA61 + 5me = unhappiness
The car will be getting an engine swap.
I currently have a Mitsubishi Scorpion club car 2.6 twin 45mm webers etc etc, goes well, very responsive. (no idiot comments please)
The Supra will also be used as a club car but Iam worried about the general responsiveness of a turbo engine.
Faster is always better but the instant respone of an NA means alot to me. Now, I must admit I've only ever driven one turbo car and it was only once and it had more lag then normal.
The most likely engine choice for me will be 1jzgte, do they have much lag, or would it be better going a 2jzgte for the extra torque (less lag ???) more $$$ I know, as far as NA goes Im leaning very much towards a 2jzge and mod it.
Id be very interested in the oppinions of people with experience with both forms.
Cheers, Tim
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Thu, 08 September 2005 10:34
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well, Ed_ma61 made a tits 7m-ge - very nice engine, and was plenty quick enough to have fun in. Of course, a 1jz/2jz/7m-gte are always gonna make more power.
what are you ,going to use the car for? how responsive does it have to be? if you've got a stock 1j or 2j and nail it when the engine is already doing 4000 rpm, the lag is tiny
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Thu, 08 September 2005 11:03
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my 4K was very responsive.. ie funny to watch other ppl try and drive smoothly 
drivign a 3SGTE (stock) is annoying in city driving.. you know when you need to nail it thru an intersection? that doesn't happen...
if it's for a track car, and turbo is always kept spinning, it'd be ok i suppose, but for me NA/SC is where it's at
why not go 2JZ with a twin screw SC? torque of turbo but form even lower in rev range, no lag - ever. not quite as much up high, but flat torque curve and near instant response (similar to NA.. takes two or three revs to fill intake tract usually.)
go on, you know you want to 
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Location:
Burnie, Tasmania
Registered:
July 2005
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Thu, 08 September 2005 11:42
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SUPERCHARGE THE 2JZGE!!!!
I just sold my 2JZGE MA61 and i was going to supercharge it.
7mgte CAS
1JZGTE Coilpacks modded to fit the GE valley cover.
Was going to strap on this Eaton M90.
Bang on a front mount intercooler and modify the plenum to become front facing and the thing would be an animal, max torque just after idle!
my 2c worth
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Location:
Burnie, Tasmania
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Thu, 08 September 2005 11:54
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| BlackSupra wrote on Thu, 08 September 2005 21:42 |
I just sold my 2JZGE MA61 and i was going to supercharge it.
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Congrats on the sale, I must say I did like your car.
My car will be a weekend driver plus as many car club events as possible, so the car will be regoed but with a big emphasis on hill climbs and track days.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Thu, 08 September 2005 23:39
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As Draven and oldcorollas said, it's very much going to depend on how you drive it. My car only has a relatively stock 1GGTE, and nail it at 2000rpm and expect to wait a sec before it gives you a big kick up the ass. Nail it at 4000rpm and before you know if you're being pummeled down the road.
The moral of the story is keep it in its boost producing rev range, and the response will be very good.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 00:10
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im yet to be inspired by responsiveness of my mates 1JZ MA61, thats not to say i dont like driving his car i love how nuts it is.
for a drivers car, Ed and Glen will tell u their N/A MA61's were wonderfully ballanced with the punch u needed to instantly break out of a corner. and i agree.
if thats what your really looking for my suggestion is 1UZ
if you want a traffic light grand prix car then yeah bung in a 1JZ and have fun.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 02:46
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1UZ, cams, extractors, manual, management, BAM!
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Location:
Burnie, Tasmania
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 02:55
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Fri, 09 September 2005 10:10 |
im yet to be inspired by responsiveness of my mates 1JZ MA61, thats not to say i dont like driving his car i love how nuts it is.
for a drivers car, Ed and Glen will tell u their N/A MA61's were wonderfully ballanced with the punch u needed to instantly break out of a corner. and i agree.
if thats what your really looking for my suggestion is 1UZ
if you want a traffic light grand prix car then yeah bung in a 1JZ and have fun.
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Im not really after the traffic light grand prix stuff, although it is fun
I did think on a 1uz for some time and I know it will fit, but by how much ?, Ive seem a few pics and it seems to be quite a sweeze, especially exhaust wise and a free flowing exhaust would be fairly important.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 02:57
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I'm gonna back rob here - go make yourself a tits 1uz. supercharge it even 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:00
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mmmmm 1UZ with sayyy 9psi of twin-screwed goodness should give around 600Nm.. surely that should be enough
nahh, go 16psi... 700-800Nm.... poor tyres 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:02
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dont get me wrong im not telling u to go 1UZ its my suggestion
best see if u can get yourself into the drivers seat (or at least the passenger seat) of a 1JZ ma61 to see for yourself.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:06
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the exhaust you have to get a little creative. you certainly wont be able to fit spaghetti tuned length extractors, but there's enough room for an acceptable system in there.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:06
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While I have nothing useful to contribute to this thread, a question I have seems relevant here.
Just want to know approximate costs of Supercharging the 1UZ and what sort of power gains would I be looking at?
I know I will probably get the "how long is a piece of string" comment, but give me a ball park figure.
I finally got to drive my celsior, while it does move better then I had expected of a big car, one always wants more.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:10
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7k bolt on kit.
128rwkw to 179rwkw.
But thats on stock ecu.
Shitload more gains with aftermarket ecu.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:10
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| draven wrote on Fri, 09 September 2005 11:06 |
the exhaust you have to get a little creative. you certainly wont be able to fit spaghetti tuned length extractors, but there's enough room for an acceptable system in there.
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Might wanna rethink that.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:30
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Locally they are seeing more rwkw than that from a stock ECU SC'd UZ. A good IC is the mani requirement as the stock ECU can be reprogrammed to suit. With the right setup 220-240rwkw should be doable.
For what it's worth my stock internal turboed UZ pumps out 320rwkw and is as responsive as pretty much any n/a engine i've had.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:32
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| CrUZsida wrote on Fri, 09 September 2005 13:10 |
| draven wrote on Fri, 09 September 2005 11:06 |
the exhaust you have to get a little creative. you certainly wont be able to fit spaghetti tuned length extractors, but there's enough room for an acceptable system in there.
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Might wanna rethink that.
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?
I was under the impression that room was cramped in tehre for the 1UZ... or is it only cramped if you're trying to fit 2 turbos in there?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 03:33
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Turbo's.
Plenty of room for extractors.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 04:10
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A 2JZ-GTE is a Sequential Twin Turbo, which will make the power come on earlier. Max torque of 426-453 at 3600-4000rpm (depending on version).
Even with the turbo lagging, the 3.0ltr engine should still provide you with a decent wack of torque to get up and move from idle, in something as light as a MA61.
Although having said that, recently I've become all about the N/A. And a worked 1UZ-FE would be... sooo awesome. 
As others have said, find someone who has a 1UZ-MA61, and a 2JZ-MA61, get them to take you for a ride/let you drive, and see what you think.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 07:27
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ahhh love teh ENAY
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 07:40
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This a picture thread now?
Allow me to contribute
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 07:49
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you all seem to be missing one of these
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 07:57
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Not for long big boy.....
Just have to find room for the unit and front mount in here somewhere......
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 08:10
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fan-bloody-tastic 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 08:59
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I wanna see more worked NA 1UZ's... DO IT... you know u wanna 
that being said, anything with a good aftermarket supercharger would be good to see an dwould reap tasty rewards.
PS: Holden didn't need a turbo to create lag. You see they bolted the shoddiest 4 speed auto they could find onto the back of the genIII v8, and after nailing it, 'ya gotta wait like 5 seconds for anything to happen. Nice engineering. Why didn't I think of that! 
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Location:
Burnie, Tasmania
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 11:09
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ooooooaaahhhoooohhhhh
Im feeling all light headed now
Hey gianttomato, how much would your 2j be putting out?
I really like the idea of 6 throttle bodies
Are those 1uz pics with extractors the extractors that would fit into the MA61, and are there any probs with a twin exhaust under the car?
Cheers guys, nice pics one and all!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: responsiveness turbo vs NA
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Fri, 09 September 2005 11:13
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Fuel tank is on one side, so you'll need a custom tank to make dual outlets.
Its something I'm thinking about.
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